Recent Mountain Lion Sightings

[Wämp]

I crossed paths with a mountain lion in Lands End Colorodo. I didn't see it, but it's tracks were in my tracks, which I saw less than 10 min later. I didn't see the beast, but others did.
There is an artical in Yankee (Dec 03) "Missing Lynx" were it appears fisher take lynx out at will. The study is done in up in Maine. Yup! yankees up in there. Chris

 

[Wämp]

I think Grumpy's postulation is completly plausable I figgure it's a wash. No singular reason and the path of least resistance.
I didn't get the learning curve going from my grandfathers, nor my father :. so it it about playing catch up.
Thanks for the wonderfull track url.
Duanesburg (better spelling?, sorry)is West of Albany on 20, North of Berne on the Knox Cave Road. The siteings were near the RR tracks East of town.
The Big cat siteings here, were on Joslyn Scool Rd in East Berne. Chris

 

[mink319]

Fishers

Wow, that is amazing that Fishers take out Lynx that easily. They even take out porcipines. They are in the same family as Wolverines, which originally did exist in the northeast. Imagine reintroducing them!

I think that Lynx are even more elusive than Cougars, and they also seem more fragile, and the DEC will probably never admit they are here because the dont want the extra responsability to protect them, unlike the WMNF who closed trails because of them.

 

[TomEske]

OK this question finaly forced me to register for this group. Yesterday (1/3) my daughter's boyfriend found a road kill cougar on the side of the road on Rt. 212 just south and west of Mink Hollow. He hunts this area heavily and has had 3 sightings in the past 3 months with one of a large cougar with a (dead) fawn up in a tree.
He said the road kill was a large animal, about 3.5-4 feet long, plus the distinctive tail of nearly the samme length. He went back to retieve it an hour later and it was gone.
They are definately out there. Incidently, many of the local folks will never call or report sightings to the DEC simply because of age old distrust. "Don't need none of them fellas snooping around asking questions..."
Tom

 

[mink319]

Wow...

I guess the it finally happened. I was over in Pecoy Notch just last week, but I didnt see anything. Of course the locals will not call the DEC because they dont want any part of game wardings around, asking questions, and hanging around at night. I guess then they are just going to throw it into the woods. I have a friend who lives near Mink Hollow who told me all about sightings over the hunting season. I guess I have to go see him when I go up there next weekend. He traps and and recently got a Fisher.
Over in Delaware County last year a farmer shot a Cougar because it was going after his livestock.

Wamp, East Berne could definitely have Cougars passing through because there are many remote areas nearby. The Helderberg Escarpment to the northwest, Partride Run WMA is right there, Preston Hollow to the south, The Catskills a little further south, and Summit to the west.

 

[funkyfreddy]

Rumours - but where's the evidence?

Yesterday (1/3) my daughter's boyfriend found a road kill cougar on the side of the road on Rt. 212 just south and west of Mink Hollow. He hunts this area heavily and has had 3 sightings in the past 3 months with one of a large cougar with a (dead) fawn up in a tree.
He said the road kill was a large animal, about 3.5-4 feet long, plus the distinctive tail of nearly the samme length. He went back to retieve it an hour later and it was gone.

Sorry, I find this hard to believe..... a road kill cougar on the side of Rt. 212, a main road in the Catskills, and no one reported it? No one took a picture of it, fur samples, etc. ?

It mysteriously disappeared...... I wonder how that happened....... was it picked up in a black helicopter? Sorry, but w/o any evidence this sounds like just another tall tale/tail to me and I've heard a lot of tall tales when it comes to big cats in the Catskills.

 

[ALGonquin Bob]

Please excuse my ignorance, but where are Mink Hollow/RT. 212, Wamp, East Berne, the Helderberg Escarpment, etc.? I'm a Western New Yorker, and not familiar with SouthEast NYS if indeed that is where these places are.

I think that I saw a bobcat on a recent trip (Nov.) in the Adirondacks. It was the size of a bobcat and very fast. It quickly ran off the shoulder of the road and into the forest as I approached in my truck. Maybe with all the hiking I do, I'll be lucky?! enough to see a couger... from a reasonable distance.

 

[mink319]

Route 212...

Tom, are you sure it was Route 212 and not a road off of 212, because as FunkyFreddy points out Route 212 is a major road. I still believe that there was a road kill cougar up that way, but I dont think it was on Route 212, but nothing is impossible.
If I saw a Cougar along the road dead, I would take it and have it stuffed, so why couldnt that have happened rather quickly on Route 212?

 

[Grumpy]

Black helicopters? Alien activity?

Hey, funkyfreddy, just for the sake of contrariness and a little fun, I’ll assert that a defunct cougar lying beside the road in New York State would make a pretty nifty trophy. So the carcass might not long RIP there before somebody (driving a black car, maybe?) gathers it up and spirits it away.

I’ve seen more than a few croaked roadside deer with their heads (mysteriously) missing. They invariably give me an eerie sense of alien activity. But then I get to thinking that if I stopped to check the other end of the carcass I likely would discover the thing was a well endowed buck in life.

G.

 

[funkyfreddy]

Trophys and Tall Tails

Hi Grumpy, It would make a good trophy but I think the bragging rights to proving the existence of the Catskill cougar would be more attractive to some - especially many residents of Woodstock - which Rt. 212 travels through on its way from Saugerties to Rt. 28 in Mt. Tremper. Aside from Rt. 28 this is one of the busiest roads in the Catskills - lot's of B+B's, antique shops, restaurants, etc. I would think that a cougar carcass would get a lot of attention!

I brought up the black helicopters because for years I've heard many different versions of what I call "the DEC Catskill conspiracy", which is a fish story about the DEC secretly releasing wolves and cougars in the ADK and the Catskills. As the story gets retold it gets more and more outlandish about the means the government uses to prevent discovery..... black helicopters and alien craft fit in nicely. Why not abduct the animals from Canada and plop them down from the sky? Your tax $$ at work!

One of the sources for the "DEC Catskill Conspiracy" was my friends neighbor, who also told me that it was OK for him to feed bears in his backyard because it "keeps them off the highways". He didn't want to hear from any "city boys" that it wasn't a good idea to feed wild animals.

I myself have a bit of an obsession as to whether a resident population of mountain lions still lives in the NE. I think it's possible but want to see hard evidence. Hopefuly some will be provided soon and whatever population still exists would be protected as they are in Florida.

 

[mink319]

Secret Releases....

I have heard many rumors that the DEC secreatly released wolves in the Catskills and ADK's, yet I dont really believe it. I have heard this from many people, one is a good source, two like to tell stories, and one has crazy stories yet all of them turned out to be true. I still doubt it. If there are any stray wolves in the Catskills and ADK's they probably came from elsewhere.

Now, I think the Cougars in NE are slowly coming back, I think at one time there werent any, but they are working there way in from Canada. This is similar to the way Moose came back. At first they came back to Maine, then NH, then VT, then the ADK's and now they are slowly working their way back to the Catskills from the ADK's and Taconics.

Lets go to the mountains, and get some good evidence that cougars live in New York.

 

[funkyfreddy]

Lets go to the mountains, and get some good evidence that cougars live in New York.

I agree! If you do find a carcass - take some photos and fur samples at the very least! If you sight a live one - try to find some tracks, fur samples, or other evidence if you have the opportunity. I would think this would be quite a coup!

 

[mink319]

Next Weekend

I am going up to the Catskills next weekend, I will make sure I have a camera with me, and a plastic bag for fur samples.

 

[TomEske]

Clarifications

I didn't think that my post would bring such debate. I won't attempt to defend against those doubting it's accuracy. However, I should have been more specific and accurate. The area where the carcass was seen was on rt. 212, but it was southwest of Mt. Tobias between Bearsville and Mt. Tremper. This is not so heavily traveled as one might think, but more importantly, is is adjacent to large tracts of unihabited land. For those not familisr, this is still south of Mink hollow, but much more so than I might have indicated. (Mink Hollow is the area leading downhill from the col between Plateau and Sugarloaf mountains in the Indainhead Wilderness area.)
Some of us know these cats exist here and thats good enough for most of us. For those who want to go looking for them, I wish you the best of luck. I've been walking the hills for over thirty years and have only seen 2 bobcats, one of which was stalking me while I was calling turkeys. The other I saw while deer hunting. Both times required many hours of SITTING. A cat will hear you a half mile off, and be gone before you get anywhere near sight range.
For those of you who choose to only believe in solid proof, thats fine too, but there is little to be gained by assuming that evryone else is a liar.
'Nuff sed

 

[Wämp]

Any critter can make it from the Catskills to the Hilderburgs. Last year a bear was shot by police in the city of Albany, which had been 'tagged' as a nusence bear in the Catskills. I would tend to think a cat would be a better road crosser than a bear. The escarpment funnels activity and it is totaly amazing what deer can climb or decend. There is a lot of vacant land and land in transition as farms have gone out. Partrige Run, here, is maintained by the DEC in sucession. Land in sucession supports a vibrant amount of wild life. At any rate, say between Hunter and here there are few road crossings. The limmiting idea of road crossings may well be moot, as it is believable critters have adapted.
In fact my first bobcat sighting was in feet of one of my out buildings, so was I. While digging for keys, I was ignoring, what I thought was the usual rabbit, nope! as soon as it moved it was totaly evedient why there are less rabbits.
If you are heading in from western NY 90, try getting off at Canajoharie use 162 se to Slonesville rout 30a to Vroman's cornors, near the intersection of I88 (it helps to know the short cuts) and 443 E to E berne 157a to Thatcher park that's pretty much the middle of the escarpment.
Good luck out there. Chris

 

[mink319]

Tom, you are definitely right that you need to sit for hours. I see the most wildlife when I go deer hunting and sit for a few hours without moving. Maybe this summer I will go looking for some elusive cats at about 3300', and just sit in a spot near some rocky caverns, preferably on Plateau Mtn or Sugarloaf Mtn above Mink Hollow. Tom, any advice on this?

Wamp, were you are is a great spot for exotic animals to come from the ADK's, Catskills, Vermont, and the Taconics. Thatcher SP is a good place for some of those elusive cats to spend some time because of the rocky caverns. I think though that they wouldnt live over in the Helderbergs, just pass through or go there temporarily, and would probably live in the Catskills. As Tom said, these cats would here you a half mile away and flee to there hiding spots, so if you want to see one, you have to sit down for hours in a remote spot, with lots of thicket or rocks.
And now that Tom said it was over near Mt Tobias which is much less traveled, and mostly only traveled by locals, its a big difference. One of the locals probably just took it as a trophy, or dragged off into the woods so the DEC doesnt come around.

 

[Wämp]

Yes this whole area is rittled with caves. Well drilling around the park, in particular, is risky.
Come winter's sustained below zero days one can find many vents and openings. Cat tracks are all over. Some show hair between the paws. My abused ears hear cows over a half a mile if they are belley acking, young cats must be really keyed in.
The Partrige Run Game area is full of suprises. Ravines, streams, ponds, thick brush, old rock walls and intermitent use.
Yes, I belive the big cats are transient, but that may change if their population goes unchecked.
Many pets, including dogs, go missing from door yards here. (folks are keeping guns more handy) Coyots take deer and after three days there is not a bone left, amazing how little evidence is left. I always get it back wards, when turky hunting, I see deer, when deer hunting I see turky, grouse, Owl, fox, but only rarely bob cats.
By eye the Catskills look like a short 20 miles as the crow flyes. What's a big cat's range? Chris

 

[WalksWithBlackflies]

Don't expect the DEC or other governmental agency to formally state there are cougars, wolves, etc in NYS. Last summer, my brother caught a bowfin in Oneida Lake (anyone who knows what a bowfin looks like knows that they can't be mistaken for any other fish). He contacted the DEC who said, "No you didn't, they don't live in Oneida Lake"... end of story.

I saw some HUGE canine prints in the snow near Truxton, NY this past weekend. Didn't see any boot/snowshoe/ski prints next to it. Quite sure there are no wolves in this area... so only thing I can think of is that a Mastif or similarly-sized dog wandered away from it's owner.

 

[Wämp]

Only very new commers up here bother talking to the DEC. Try the Cooperative Extention. Or Call Ward Stone the NYS Wild Life Pathologiest directly , he is aproachable and frank. Blow fish? I'll have to look that one up. Fresh water? I understand Onita lake can be treacherous. Truxton? I'll have to look that up too. It was, the name of Andrew Jackson's race horse. Take it slow Chris

 

[mink319]

The average range of cougar is anywhere from 8 to 500 square miles according to the book "Forest Cats". I guest that could mean if they come back to the Catskills a small but decent population. Thats a big range, I guess if there lots of game, which there is up there, than the range is small.