Rescue helicopter crashes during hiker rescue on Baldy Peak, NM

[Craig]

This is still a developing story.
Unfortunately, it appears some have not survived.

 

[ALGonquin Bob]

I saw the preliminary story yesterday. It's a tragedy that happens all too often, and is exactly the type of incident I thought about last month when the doctor told me I would need a helicopter transport out of the Grand Canyon clinic. My thoughts are with the families of that crew and passenger.

 

[David Metsky]

In my last first aid course they stressed that every course of action, including deciding to call for help, has risks to all parties involved. A sobering thought.

 

[Craig]

I hope we get more detail on the circumstances that led to the 2 hikers getting separated and led to the crash.
Hopefully with a survivor from both parties, they will be able to accurately piece it together.

Now, if the media can only accurately report it…

 

[Barkingcat]

More information on what happened to Megumi Yamamoto, a University of New Mexico graduate student from Japan, who dialed 911 after getting lost in the Sangre de Cristo mountains and died when the rescue chopper crashed:

http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20090618/ap_on_hi_te/us_helicopter_crash911_calls

 

[Kevin Rooney]

I read that article, and apparently had she known to call 911 (she was a foreign national) there was a good chance 911 would have been able to use triangulation equipment to better locate her.

So why didn't 911 call her? Wouldn't that have solved the triangulation problem, or does it work only on incoming calls? Am I missing something?

 

[sardog1]

In my last first aid course they stressed that every course of action, including deciding to call for help, has risks to all parties involved. A sobering thought.

I knew a dog handler who died in a helicopter crash during a mission in the Olympics back in the late 90s. I've also been on the second helicopter in to an avalanche site at which the first helicopter rolled over while landing. No injuries from that one. And finally, the most experienced mountain helicopter pilot in Alaska, who had retired from the Alaska State Troopers after many years of flying SAR missions, etc., in extremely tough situations, crashed and died during a short flight across the water to Anchorage.

Choppers are extremely useful and fun to ride on (most of the time), but as a pilot once told me, they have the glide pattern of a rock when things go wrong.

 

[Craig]

I'm glad to see the media is still bird dog'n this one.

I'm a little surprised the helicopter landed on the mountain. It was earlier reported she was found at 12,000'.

 

[DougPaul]

I read that article, and apparently had she known to call 911 (she was a foreign national) there was a good chance 911 would have been able to use triangulation equipment to better locate her.

My reading of the article suggests that she was calling 911. For some unknown reason, she was being routed to non-emergency operators. Her accent was also a problem.

The E911 system is still relatively new. Looks like there are still some bugs at some installations.

Doug

 

[Craig]

Radio transmission in chopper crash released along with crash site video.

The chopper pilot that was killed and the radio dispatcher were husband/wife.

Sgt. Tingwall: Hey Leighann, can you hear me?
Leighann Tingwall: Affirmative.
Sgt. Tingwall: Alright. I struck a mountainside. Going down.
Leighann: Are you 10-4?
Sgt. Tingwall: Negative
Officer: 77 Santa Fe where are they?

 

[TDawg]

Wow, this is horrible. Prayers to the families.

 

[ALGonquin Bob]

The article focused on the communication problem and mis-routed 911 calls, but despite all that the rescuer did find the hiker, so why all the stress on the phone calls and her accent? The only thing that matters here is that the helicopter went down, and many people lost loved ones in a tragic accident.

 

[DougPaul]

The article focused on the communication problem and mis-routed 911 calls, but despite all that the rescuer did find the hiker, so why all the stress on the phone calls and her accent? The only thing that matters here is that the helicopter went down, and many people lost loved ones in a tragic accident.

The above problems appear to have delayed finding the victim.

Possible effects:
* Increased aircrew fatigue
* One of the links suggests that the crash was near 9pm. Thus the delay could have converted a daylight rescue to a night rescue. (Much more dangerous for a helicopter.)

Doug

 

[Craig]

Additional information about the crash.

On Thursday, Hanes, who is also a member of an Albuquerque-based search and rescue team that was at the scene two days after the initial crash, pointed to a small pine tree near the top of the boulder-strewn slope and said that was the highest point where wreckage was found. That item was a piece of equipment from the helicopter that Hanes said fell out or was thrown out of the aircraft. Police have said the helicopter might have struck a tree with its tail rotor, causing it to crash.

 

[Craig]

It seems there is some Monday morning quarterbacking with regards to SAR's protocol in this incident.

Article

Article

 

[SAR-EMT40]

It seems there is some Monday morning quarterbacking with regards to SAR's protocol in this incident.

Article

Article

I don't consider this Monday morning quarterbacking to be honest. These are very legitimate and valid questions. These same questions have been being asked of the EMS helicopter services for several years because of the same kind of accidents on calls that are questionable, in weather that maybe they should have not been flying in. I won't even go into the fact that not one study, not one, has ever been conducted to show whether EMS air ambulances make any difference in the patients outcome. Yet we spend tremendous amounts of money on them. Money in emergency medicine that could have considerable amount of use if dispersed intelligently instead of the blind faith that medical helicopters save lives. ($7,000,000/year for 2 helicopters in CT) I don't speak about this lightly nor is it just academic to me. We lost a medical helicopter several years ago on a call that didn't meet the criteria for a medical evacuation and the helicopter pilot tried to get to the scene at night, in poor weather and hit a high tension line in 1992. One dead, one crippled, one with TBI and a person on the ground seriously injured and the loss of the aircraft.

Helicopter rescue is something that is very hazardous and in the military is practiced repeatedly, in simulators and then in the helicopters. The military and USCG helicopters have tremendous power and visual systems to help with rescues something that they must have. The ability to see the terrain and the target in all weather conditions and enough power to get in, hold steady, and get out.

The credentials of the two people in both articles are hard to ignore. This is not just Monday morning quarterbacking, these are very valid questions that we should be having a national debate on to be honest.

Keith

 

[Craig]

Some preliminary information from the NTSB

News Article

A former state police chief pilot says there was pressure to fly rescue missions from the Public Safety Department's top administrator, and that may have contributed to a fatal crash in which a helicopter went to save a lost hiker near Santa Fe, according to a report by federal investigators.
The report by the National Transportation Safety Board also raised questions about a pilot's decision to fly the rescue mission and whether the pilot was overworked before starting the mission, and it disclosed he was taking prescription medication for depression.

NTSB Preliminary Report

 

[tb69wemt]

I don't consider this Monday morning quarterbacking to be honest. These are very legitimate and valid questions. These same questions have been being asked of the EMS helicopter services for several years because of the same kind of accidents on calls that are questionable, in weather that maybe they should have not been flying in. I won't even go into the fact that not one study, not one, has ever been conducted to show whether EMS air ambulances make any difference in the patients outcome. Yet we spend tremendous amounts of money on them. Money in emergency medicine that could have considerable amount of use if dispersed intelligently instead of the blind faith that medical helicopters save lives. ($7,000,000/year for 2 helicopters in CT) I don't speak about this lightly nor is it just academic to me. We lost a medical helicopter several years ago on a call that didn't meet the criteria for a medical evacuation and the helicopter pilot tried to get to the scene at night, in poor weather and hit a high tension line in 1992. One dead, one crippled, one with TBI and a person on the ground seriously injured and the loss of the aircraft.

Helicopter rescue is something that is very hazardous and in the military is practiced repeatedly, in simulators and then in the helicopters. The military and USCG helicopters have tremendous power and visual systems to help with rescues something that they must have. The ability to see the terrain and the target in all weather conditions and enough power to get in, hold steady, and get out.

The credentials of the two people in both articles are hard to ignore. This is not just Monday morning quarterbacking, these are very valid questions that we should be having a national debate on to be honest.

Keith

Well said and I could not agree more.

In my experience State helicopters or private rescue(life flight type) helicopters are poorly equipped to run SAR missions. I have been a medic for several years and have been on Military helicopters(Blackhawk HH60M) and t private medivac helicopters the difference between power and lift capabilities are huge. All of the civilian med helos I have been on have weight restrictions. They actually need to know how much you and your gear weigh so they know where you can sit. The military has weight restrictions too but you are just cargo to them and they could really care less where you sit. Civilian helicopter is the equivalent to a geo metro where a Blackhawk is equivalent to a F550 Ambulance. Which would you prefer to ride in when conditions are less than perfect. It appears the first rule of rescue was ignored . The safety of the rescuer comes first, then team mates, then onlookers, then somewhere way down the list is the safety of the victim. This appears to be a poor use of resources and it should be thoroughly examined.

 

[J.Dub]

I have been a medic for several years and have been on Military helicopters(Blackhawk HH60M) and t private medivac helicopters the difference between power and lift capabilities are huge. ...[EDIT]... Civilian helicopter is the equivalent to a geo metro where a Blackhawk is equivalent to a F550 Ambulance. Which would you prefer to ride in when conditions are less than perfect.

^^^Iz troo.

But how many civvy air rescue services are flying Blackhawks?

 

[Craig]

The spotter stated they located the hiker just before dark and landed in an open area near her. The pilot shut down the helicopter and went into the forest to bring her back to the helicopter. While the pilot was gone the weather deteriorated and it started sleeting. When the pilot returned he was carrying the hiker on his back.

I found this interesting. I would think protocol would dictate the pilot stay with the helicopter.
What would happen if the pilot got injured while rescuing the hiker? Is the spotter usually a rated pilot as well?

Seems like the pilot should have stayed with the helo and the spotter go for the hiker.