Rescue on Adams

[sardog1]

IMO, leaving behind equipment which may be required (eg crampons, ice axes, snowshoes) is a potentially dangerous trend. One needs to have the sense to back off when one's equipment and skills are not up to the situation.

Yeah, what he said. And this, from a few years ago.

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

IMO, leaving behind equipment which may be required (eg crampons, ice axes, snowshoes) is a potentially dangerous trend. One needs to have the sense to back off when one's equipment and skills are not up to the situation.

"The mountain will always be there--the trick is for you to be there, too", Don Whillans.

Doug

Absolutely; cannot agree more. But, sounds like they may have been on their way down, so just another reminder that one needs to be especially cautious after attaining the summit, with or without proper equipment. And, Don lived longed enough on the big mountains to die of cirrhosis, so apt quote.

 

[sardog1]

This first hand account in a trip report is worth noting: Almost to Adams via Airline/Valley Way 3-27-10

 

[Tom Rankin]

Yeah, what he said. And this, from a few years ago.

You should edit that excellent post to include M-Spikes.

 

[Remix]

What are you supposed to do if your sliding like this fellow and have crampons on?

 

[Billy]

What are you supposed to do if your sliding like this fellow and have crampons on?

keep your feet off the ground, and pray....not necessarily in that order

 

[DougPaul]

Absolutely; cannot agree more. But, sounds like they may have been on their way down, so just another reminder that one needs to be especially cautious after attaining the summit, with or without proper equipment.

This can be particularly problematical on a loop route where you may end up on the wrong side of a hazard with a very long retreat. Or conditions can change between the ascent and descent (eg hard snow on the way up, bottomless rotten snow on the way down). And steep terrain is often easier to ascend than descend--think about the way down while on the way up.

And, Don lived longed enough on the big mountains to die of cirrhosis, so apt quote.

He was known to down a pint or three...

Doug

PS, "The Villain: A Portrait of Don Whillans", by Jim Perrin is a nice read. http://www.amazon.com/Villain-Portr...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269911857&sr=8-2

 

[DougPaul]

What are you supposed to do if your sliding like this fellow and have crampons on?

Keep your feet up and use your axe to self-arrest. If you don't have an axe or have lost it, then dig your crampons in (at this point you have nothing else to work with). You may break you ankles or legs, but that is preferable to a 1,500 slide down a steep face (with a high probability of death).

There was such an incident on Lafayette a number of years ago. An icy slab leading down toward Lafayette Brook (N side of Walker Ridge) often forms on the Greenleaf Tr a little below the summit. The hiker fell, lost his axe, and arrested with his crampons. And then had to walk out on two broken ankles--but he survived.

Doug

 

[cushetunk]

In the interest of full disclosure, I (still) do not own an ice axe, and I have never needed crampons in my pursuit of the winter 48. MSRs and microspikes have been more than sufficient.

Well, sure, those work most of the time. But not after very warm weather, some rain and snow, and a major freeze-up.

I don't understand the idea that there is one ideal set of gear for winter. Microspike vs. crampons. Ice ax vs. ski pole. MSR snowshoes vs 36" bearpaws. They're all very useful tools in the right conditions.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

...I don't understand the idea that there is one ideal set of gear for winter. Microspike vs. crampons. Ice ax vs. ski pole. MSR snowshoes vs 36" bearpaws. They're all very useful tools in the right conditions.

You're right, of course.

Some of us are hard-wired to see the world in black and white, and for those there may be only one solution to any problem/situation.

Some of us are hard-wired to see the world as highly nuanced with solutions constantly changing.

Most of us may find ourselves somewhere in the middle.

Personally, I've found lately I often carry both microspike and 10-pointers, and an axe along with the poles (always have poles). Yes, it's a bit heavier, but winter hiking ain't for sissies.

 

[DougPaul]

I don't understand the idea that there is one ideal set of gear for winter. Microspike vs. crampons. Ice ax vs. ski pole. MSR snowshoes vs 36" bearpaws. They're all very useful tools in the right conditions.

And sometimes it is worth carrying both to be able to cover a wider range of conditions--for instance, I have at times carried both insteps (microspikes in the future) and full crampons, and/or both an ice axe and ski poles.

Spring and fall conditions can be particularly unpredictable with the daily freeze-thaw cycle.

Doug

 

[Grayjay]

It is scary sometimes that people can "allow" themselves to have an accident, almost like a deer moving in range of a hunter. How experienced was the guy? Did he feel that being with a friend gave him some illusion of saftey? Did he know the limits of MICROspikes, and that he was in a "no fall" situation? Once he got sliding, did he realize that he had to grab something or stick a ski pole top into the crust immediatley, OR ELSE?
Equipment and awareness are inseperable. With ample awareness, you can get away with minimal equipment. Without it......
With crampons, he wouldn't have fallen. It takes some imagination to visualize someone with an ice ax who couldn't figure out what to do with that point while sliding towards an edge.
Also, familairity with terrain is a big part of this. I get the distinct feeling that he had no idea that King Ravine was even there. I wonder if he come up the Valley Way.

 

[MichaelJ]

With crampons, he wouldn't have fallen.

Anyone can always fall, regardless of the equipment. One can trip, stumble, lose one's balance, even snag a crampon. It doesn't even require winter - hikers can slip and injure themselves, even breaking limbs, on any surface at any time.

With crampons, yes, this person probably would not have fallen; however, I disagree with any kind of claim that he wouldn't have fallen, because he, or any of us, even Tim, still might have.

 

[ferrisjrf]

It takes some imagination to visualize someone with an ice ax who couldn't figure out what to do with that point while sliding towards an edge.

It takes some imagination to visualize 99% of the people I see carrying axes in the Whites, doing anything with them except looking cool.

Self-arrest is not automatic in the conditions that you're talking about...not even close. No matter how much I practice, I can't arrest on this surface:

 

[Paradox]

It takes some imagination to visualize 99% of the people I see carrying axes in the Whites, doing anything with them except looking cool.

Self-arrest is not automatic in the conditions that you're talking about...not even close.

Concur, I've seen alot of axes on packs, but don't recall anyone ever carrying one ready to use it.

 

[Grayjay]

Again, equipment and awareness are inseperable. Also, I take breaks from looking at Views, and then when I come back, I see I've missed some interesting news, like this rescue, or the Aetherius group that was thinking of climbing Adams recently.
Then, I also realize why I take breaks.

 

[1ADAM12]

Speaking of the proper equipment. My crampons stayed in my pack all winter although I never used them I try to always be preparred

 

[PETCH]

- I carry a mountain axe/crampons through the winter and generally use them a couple/few times a season. But, more often I usually curse at the axe -as it gets hung up on trees, etc. Just need to mount it differently on pack.
- Years ago, a friend and myself were coming down winter Lions Head trail after a non-successful attempt at Washington. We were both wearing crampons. I fell, dropped my axe, and slid aways until I could snag a tree. The lesson I was suppose to learn was- get a tether strap from my axe to my wrist. I think I will be shopping for one very soon. Also, most mountain axe shafts have no grip (smooth aluminum finish). I'm going to modify that as well.

Petch

 

[Craig]

...Yes, it's a bit heavier, but winter hiking ain't for sissies.

LOL – What more needs to be said!

 

[Maddy]

You're right, of course.

Some of us are hard-wired to see the world in black and white, and for those there may be only one solution to any problem/situation.

Some of us are hard-wired to see the world as highly nuanced with solutions constantly changing.

Most of us may find ourselves somewhere in the middle.

Personally, I've found lately I often carry both microspike and 10-pointers, and an axe along with the poles (always have poles). Yes, it's a bit heavier, but winter hiking ain't for sissies.

Not if you hope to live a nice long life!
Happy to hear this hiker fell this distance and survived tell the tale. Many have not been so fortunate.