Rescue on Lafayette

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Yes, they do work. The signal is monitored, and the alert is passed on to the appropriate agency/location. My hunch was the PLB was a Spot. I know several people who carry them in the West, didn't realize people were starting to carry them in the East. Glad these guys got out OK.
 
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Interesting I met a party of four on Osseo this afternoon who stayed at Liberty Springs yesterday and they (and I) didn't have the news. There is another beacon the market from Delorme...it uses the Iridium satellite network...allows two way text chats so rescuers can assess the situation....and has message receipt confirmation....if you are considering a beacon.
 
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The SPOT is a nice way to communicate with loved ones back home but it is not a PLB.

A full gas canister warmed in your pockets does not match the reliability of a SVEA 123R.
 
I own a McMurdo Fast Find 210.

Sardog might know the answer this question. I was just reviewing the literature but in the instr. manual, no real mention is made of how in functions at certain temp ranges. On the back of my device is states in microscopic font class2 -4 to 131 F . I did not know that the bottom line here was -4. That would about useless even on a lot of my more local hikes in winter. Should I assume it might not work in 0 degrees with a minus 15 wind chill? Is there anything I can do to keep it warm if it did have to be activated? It would be just standing upright totally exposed to the elements. I bought it at REI and it was the only one they sold so I just assumed it would work in New England weather. It sounds to me like it would just stop tracking just like my IPOD did once when I was using it in cold temps and that was in my pocket!!!

I am going to be really bummed out if this thing is unreliable.:(
 
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Maddy said:
I own a McMurdo Fast Find 210.

Sardog might know the answer this question. I was just reviewing the literature but in the instr. manual, no real mention is made of how in functions at certain temp ranges. On the back of my device is states in microscopic font class2 -4 to 131 F . I did not know that the bottom line here was -4. That would about useless even on a lot of my more local hikes in winter. Should I assume it might not work in 0 degrees with a minus 15 wind chill? Is there anything I can do to keep it warm if it did have to be activated? It would be just standing upright totally exposed to the elements. I bought it at REI and it was the only one they sold so I just assumed it would work in New England weather. It sounds to me like it would just stop tracking just like my IPOD did once when I was using it in cold temps and that was in my pocket!!!

I am going to be really bummed out if this thing is unreliable.:(
Click to expand...

The manual includes the same information in the specs on the next-to-last page. The only thing I find more amazing than this limitation is the fact that it's actually the minimum standard for Class 2 PLBs of this sort: 24 hours at -4º F/-20º C. Class 1 beacons are required to operate for 24 hours at -40º F/C. There is an apparently up-to-date listing of beacons from Cospas-Sarsat, the folks who operate the PLB program worldwide. You'll need to look at the linked report for any individual model to see which class it's certified for.

Whether yours (or any other Class 2 device) would actually operate at colder temps (and for how long) is something that needs to be considered carefully. EDIT: It would be tough or impossible to test, unless DougPaul can advise on some simulation of the battery drain while transmitting? Demo mode runs at a much lower load.
 
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sardog1 said:
The manual includes the same information in the specs on the next-to-last page. The only thing I find more amazing than this limitation is the fact that it's actually the minimum standard for Class 2 PLBs of this sort: 24 hours at -4º F/-20º C. Class 1 beacons are required to operate for 24 hours at -40º F/C. There is an apparently up-to-date listing of beacons from Cospas-Sarsat, the folks who operate the PLB program worldwide. You'll need to look at the linked report for any individual model to see which class it's certified for.

Whether yours (or any other Class 2 device) would actually operate at colder temps (and for how long) is something that needs to be considered carefully. EDIT: It would be tough or impossible to test, unless DougPaul can advise on some simulation of the battery drain while transmitting? Demo mode runs at a much lower load.
Click to expand...

Thanks SARDOG! :)
This is a situation where one can say something good came out of something bad. Had it not been for the rescue and the mention of a PLB, I would not be aware that my Mc Murdo 210 will operate at specifically the temps noted, -4 to 131 F Turns out page 13 is missing from my manual, or I might have seen this a lot sooner. I checked the individual reports and I think I found mine, but it did not give any temp ratings. Only that it was good for 24-48 hrs.

I am very disappointed but happy that I found this problem prior to having to set it off, only to discover that it froze, or have it quit 10" post sending sending the signal. I will be having a little chat with the REI folks in Framingham. I was speaking to them about the PLB'S when I bought mine, and discussing why I wanted one. You would think they might have mentioned that there were temp variations on different ones. I am going to try to return it. It's not even 1 yr old and has been very well cared for and protected. They do have the satisfaction guarantee. I cannot believe it's the minimum standard for Class 2 beacons.

Thank you for the info. It is much appreciated.
 
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Tom_Murphy said:
The SPOT is a nice way to communicate with loved ones back home but it is not a PLB.
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Technically, it's not. Many people have been rescued and owe their lives to the emergency signal this unit has sent on their behalf. I wouldn't dismiss this functionality.

If you know someone's SPOT ID, it's possible to track them on a map. However, that function is separate from the emergency signal generation.
 
Tom_Murphy said:
The SPOT is a nice way to communicate with loved ones back home but it is not a PLB.
Click to expand...
Agreed: SPOT is not a PLB

A PLB (Personal Locater Beacon) is a specific class of emergency beacon. The 406.025 MHz signal is monitored by GEOSAR and LEOSAR satellites and the response is initiated by governments, not commercial companies. The beacon transmits an identifier and, in GPS featured units, a GPS location--no user messages.* PLBs are related to EPIRBs (maritime distress beacons) and ELTs (aircraft distress beacons).

* PLBs can be located by the doppler shift of the signal as received by an orbiting satellite. This location is both slower and less accurate than a GPS location.

Some additional info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distress_radiobeacon
http://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/personal-locator-beacons.html
http://www.rei.com/search?query=plb

In contrast, SPOT is a commercial service.

I read both articles and saw no definitive identification of what kind of beacon was used, although the descriptions are consistent with a PLB.

Doug
 
sardog1 said:
Whether yours (or any other Class 2 device) would actually operate at colder temps (and for how long) is something that needs to be considered carefully. EDIT: It would be tough or impossible to test, unless DougPaul can advise on some simulation of the battery drain while transmitting? Demo mode runs at a much lower load.
Click to expand...
You need to consider the conditions under which you might use the device and only buy a device which will operate reliably under those conditions. The manufacturer does not guarantee operation outside of the spec.

Most customers probably do not engage in winter recreation, thus a -4F temp limit may cover most of their market.

Devices often operate outside their spec limits, but the amount is likely to vary with the individual unit and may change without obvious reason, so I wouldn't count on it for a device that might make the difference between life and death for me.

In the case of a PLB, it may need to operate for an extended period (particularly if it does not include a GPS) for you to be heard and located.

Doug
 
Maddy said:
Thanks SARDOG! :)
This is a situation where one can say something good came out of something bad. Had it not been for the rescue and the mention of a PLB, I would not be aware that my Mc Murdo 210 will operate at specifically the temps noted, -4 to 131 F Turns out page 13 is missing from my manual, or I might have seen this a lot sooner. I checked the individual reports and I think I found mine, but it did not give any temp ratings. Only that it was good for 24-48 hrs.

I am very disappointed but happy that I found this problem prior to having to set it off, only to discover that it froze, or have it quit 10" post sending sending the signal. I will be having a little chat with the REI folks in Framingham. I was speaking to them about the PLB'S when I bought mine, and discussing why I wanted one. You would think they might have mentioned that there were temp variations on different ones. I am going to try to return it. It's not even 1 yr old and has been very well cared for and protected. They do have the satisfaction guarantee. I cannot believe it's the minimum standard for Class 2 beacons.

Thank you for the info. It is much appreciated.
Click to expand...


I think you are going to have to pay alot more money for something that operates below -4F (-20 deg C). In all of these types of transmitters there are tiny pieces of quartz that, directly or indirectly, generates the required radio frequencies with the accuracy necessary to transmit usable (sos) or to receive useable (gps) signals. The quartz is sensitive to temperature, the number of times temperature has gone up and down, and even age, and a whole bunch of other things. If you find out differently, let us know...
 
Thanks to all who replied. Much appreciate.

I had emailed Mc Murdo yesterday when I posted on VFTT. Got a reply at the crack of dawn today. Will share it and also there is a vid which is very good that I am posting also. Ignore it if it tells you it's no longer availble. Just click and up it comes.

"Thank you for your interesting question regarding the low temperature performance of a Fastfind 210 PLB.

The main effect that sub -20 degrees Celsius (-4 degree F) can have is to the maximum operation time (battery run life). In theory, the battery energy available to run the PLB could reduce by a small amount. This is because the ambient temperature of the body of the PLB will directly effect the batteries efficiency when the PLB is transmitting. The PLB in this case is certified to operate for a minimum of 24 hours (run time) at -20c (-4 degree F) even after it has been in storage for 5 years.

However in practice, because of the small size of the unit we have had reports of people using 'body heat' to mitigate any potential low temperature issue. With a little imagination you could store the PLB in a close to body pocket so its naturally kept ready by free heat. And when activating the PLB, allow the antenna whip to see the sky but shield the body of the PLB from severe wind chill effects. Use a gloved hand or place the body of the PLB inside your clothing once the GPS position has fixed (strobe light flashing slows down to 1 time every 3 seconds when GPS is fixed) with just the antenna whip sticking out towards the sky.

An interesting ‘real world reference’ to this subject is online here (after the advert);]

http://d.yimg.com/m/up/ypp/au/player.swf?vid=19421337
 
More good news. Decided to post a few more questions to McMurdo. The have to be the most prompt people to reply ever.

"Would they still continue to search or abandon the effort after 20 min’s of transmission, I think most SAR responders would follow up though to a conclusion. Even just a short ‘burst’ of distress signal is unlikely to be ignored. But your safe guard regarding this is making certain that the emergency contact information person you have filed details of with NOAA knows your itinerary. Then when they talk to them, the SAR responders will be in the best position to make a good judgment call."


I also asked about possibly placing the PLB in a mitten with hand warmer, obviously keeping the antenna point up and clear for transmission of a signal.
"Yes chemical hand warmers could work, good idea that."

My mind is much more at ease now with my PLB. I cannot tell you how happy I am that this problem was identified and resolved prior to some ghastly event requiring me to use it in frigid temps. At least I, and perhaps others who might own one and not be aware, have a plan of action to stay safe. Really don't want to spend lots more money to upgrade this fine piece of equipment.
 
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Maddy said:
And now one more question. If one did set it off and it stopped operating say 15" later, they should have a fix on where you set it off from. Would they keep looking or abandon the effort? The key would alway be to stay put.
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Hi,

I am in the same boat as you. My family bought me an model ACR SARLink 406 GPS for my solo trips, specifically my solo winter trips, and it is also a Class 2 PLB.

I assume you have registered the PLB at the governmment website https://beaconregistration.noaa.gov/rgdb/Home?homePage=Index.

The registration process requests two contacts numbers and they will attempt to call those numbers to confirm that it is not an accidental transmission. But the default assumption will be that it is a true activation.

I will try to find the exact wording on the web site http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/index.html but PLBs are tracked by the government and once activated the registered beacon must found OR the activation reported as false. So a 15 minute signal will call in the calvary.

The batteries are rated for 24 hours of operation at -4F. I don't know what the perfromance degradation would be at say -20F, I would expect more than 15 minutes of operation; granted it is a transmitter rather than a reciever.

I think their email was spot on, bury it deep in your pack, shelter it from wind when in use, attempt to use body warmth to keep it warm.

There is a procedure for testing your beacon & not just the internal testing but a real test of the beacon activation through to the government. So you could file the necessary paper work and let your unit sit outside for a week prior to the testing date...
 
So, according to the WMUR video, it was a SPOT, though the ranger/official called it a PLB.

Anybody recognize the trailhead where the car was? Which trail were they trying to find off the summit? Was it the infamous Garfield Ridge/Skookumchuck junction they missed?
 
Great outcome.

I would prefer to see the discussion move towards face masks and goggles for these conditions.

Being backwinded on the ascent only to face blinding wind+precip on the way down is a common problem on the Franconia ridge and the northern Presidentials when ascended from the north and west sides. I've been on the flanks of Mt. Adams several times where we fought with freezing goggles and need to solve it to find the cairn lines. I can't say I ever found a fool proof combination that would allow normal aspiration while avoiding instant goggle freeze when walking into the face of high winds.

If anybody can suggest a good facemask/goggle combo that works in these situations, please do tell.

At present, my current practice is to stop several times on an ascent above treeline to assess if I can maintain goggle visibility when faced back down the trail. IMO, these conditions are a real trap as it's very possible to summit with the wind at your back and very hard or impossible to descend safely into the wind. Better to abort, imo.
 
JCarter said:
So, according to the WMUR video, it was a SPOT, though the ranger/official called it a PLB.

Anybody recognize the trailhead where the car was? Which trail were they trying to find off the summit? Was it the infamous Garfield Ridge/Skookumchuck junction they missed?
Click to expand...
With the picnic tables and background traffic, it looks like maybe this was filmed at Lafayette campground, which is across the street from the TH for Falling Waters and OBP.

As for which trail/route they were taking - not enough info for me to hazard a guess. My WAG is that they didn't proceed north to the junction you reference, but more likely started due west off the mountain (towards Cannon). Gravity often pulls people towards the Skookcumchuck drainage area, or towards the right. It's possible, but less likely, they turned left, into the Walker Brook drainage. Pure speculation on my part, however.
 
My wife loves my SPOT. I send her a little status report as we inch along the trail (not using the track-me mode, which is more expensive). Hopefully I will never have to test out the other functions (there is a need help function in addition to the SOS function to notify emergency personnel). Spare batteries would seem to solve the problems of extended transmission, if needed.

Back to the rescue: It seems to me the best prep for Lafayette is the local weather report. It should not be difficult to discern that there will be blowing snow.

Here is the Higher Summits Forecast which was available on Saturday, 12.29.12, the day before their hike:

A low pressure system will approach from the southeast, producing light snowfall across the region today and tonight. The low that was positioned over the Ohio Valley this morning will transfer its energy to a secondary low that will form off the Delmarva Peninsula. This low pressure system will ride northward along the eastern seaboard, spreading a steady fall of light snow over the summits, commencing early this afternoon. Winds will be light from the southwest this morning, and remain low as they shift towards the southeast later today and tonight. Snow will carry over into the overnight hours as the low continues to deepen and make its way northward. As the low passes by coastal Maine, the flow will shift back towards the southwest behind it, giving wind speeds a jolt as chillier air rushes in. Snowfall will come to an end by morning as the low heads towards Nova Scotia and high pressure attempts to nudge in from the southeast. The pressure gradient between these two features will give northwest winds a significant jolt as they usher in chillier temperatures through the day. Expect winds gusting in excess of 100 mph by nightfall, blowing about the newly-fallen powdery snow. The combination of falling temperatures and strong winds will necessitate a Wind Chill Advisory, which will go into effect at noon tomorrow. A total of 3-5" of snow is possible by tomorrow morning with this system across the higher summits. Conditions tomorrow will become extremely dangerous very quickly as arctic temperatures combine with rapidly accelerating wind speeds to produce very low wind chill values. Any interests above tree line tomorrow should proceed with extreme caution. (Emphasis supplied)​
 
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