Rescue on Lafayette

[peakbagger]

Not that everything applies to the canadian hikers who were rescued but my post on Whiteblaze was pretty close two days in advance.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/sho...H-rescue-fee&p=1380614&highlight=#post1380614

 

[JCarter]

As for which trail/route they were taking - not enough info for me to hazard a guess. My WAG is that they didn't proceed north to the junction you reference, but more likely started due west off the mountain (towards Cannon). Gravity often pulls people towards the Skookcumchuck drainage area, or towards the right. It's possible, but less likely, they turned left, into the Walker Brook drainage. Pure speculation on my part, however.

The reports said the "Lafayette Brook drainage". Were they trying to descend via Greenleaf to the hut and headed too far to the right, or via GRT and go too far left? GL seems more plausible, since as you come down off the summit, the trail heads practically due North briefly, and then makes a left to go WSW. Miss that turn and you're headed into Lafayette Brook. Actually, there are 3 or 4 switchbacks that could do this before you're back in the scrub.

 

[Raven]

If anybody can suggest a good facemask/goggle combo that works in these situations, please do tell.

Have you considered using two pair? Keep one close inside your coat or pocket to switch when one freezes over. Put the frozen one closer to body heat inside the coat. Switch again when needed. Not ideal changing goggles in rough conditions, but it might beat trying to constantly de-ice one pair. I've not tried this myself and only carry one pair above treeline but have conisidered it as an option.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

If anybody can suggest a good facemask/goggle combo that works in these situations, please do tell.

My combination starts with an OR WindProof hat which has earflaps with Velco so that once it's secured under my chin, my head and back of neck are completed covered. Over this hat I pull a fleece neckgaitor. I like the ones made by Turtlefur as they're made of double fleece. The neck gaitor is pulled up over my nose to the point of just touching my glasses. By this point there is only a small strip of exposed flesh, and this is covered by clear lense goggles. The goggles go over the fleece neck gaitor, holding it from slipping down.

The double fleece neck gaitor is the key, as it's thick enough to prevent most of the wind from getting thru, but still porous enough so that when I breath the vapor is dispersed away from my glasses so it doesn't fog the goggles. Sometimes I have to purse my lips to direct the breath away from the goggles. When the fleece begins to get too wet from water vapor, I wait for a sheltered spot mostly out of the wind, and give the neck gaitor a quarter turn. It's now dry around my mouth, and by the time the neck gaitor is moved twice more it will be dried.

That's my system, and I've got several expensive balaclavas in a drawer which don't work as well, including OR's Gorilla. I still use a neoprene face mask when skiing, but the clothing combo above works for me when above treeline in cold, windy conditions.

As always, YMMV.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

The anti-fog trick that seems to work best is to make certain the goggles go OVER the mask, and seal against your nose, cheeks and face so no exhaled moisture can go UP under the mask and inside the goggles. There are numerous threads here which discuss this... myself and Chip are two people who put out a bit of moisture and have a fogging / icing problem. We're not alone, I'm sure. Putting the goggles near your skin or clothes in such a way that they get evaporated sweat on them means they'll freeze up once taken out of the warm spot. Be sure to never store them on your head. It helps once you put them on, leave them on and don't mess with them. High volume goggles are a bit better. Paradox uses the Smith Turbo Fan with success.

Tim

 

[RoySwkr]

On the back of my device is states in microscopic font class2 -4 to 131 F . I did not know that the bottom line here was -4. That would about useless even on a lot of my more local hikes in winter. Should I assume it might not work in 0 degrees with a minus 15 wind chill?

Note that wind chill applies only to the rate heat is lost from exposed skin as compared to still air, it is the -4 degrees that is important. And as mentioned, if you can warm it against your body you can bring the temp up quite a bit.

 

[RoySwkr]

Additional search teams deployed Monday morning along with a Blackhawk helicopter and crew from the N.H. Army National Guard. Shortly after noon, the helicopter team spotted the hikers who were well off the trail in the Lafayette Brook drainage approximately 1.5 miles up hill from Interstate 93 (Franconia Notch Parkway).

Perhaps they need to revise their search protocol, with a beacon just send chopper or ground team to that location instead of hunting all over?

The reports said the "Lafayette Brook drainage". Were they trying to descend via Greenleaf to the hut and headed too far to the right, or via GRT and go too far left? GL seems more plausible, since as you come down off the summit, the trail heads practically due North briefly, and then makes a left to go WSW. Miss that turn and you're headed into Lafayette Brook. Actually, there are 3 or 4 switchbacks that could do this before you're back in the scrub.

This is not the first time people have needed to be rescued from Lafayette Brook in winter, the problem is that leaving the summit the trail makes a switchback around a small cliff and if you miss the zag you wind up in the ravine. It would cost $1000 at most to put up a few larger cairns there (probably volunteers would do it for free) but environmentalists probably wouldn't allow it because it was ugly. Another option would be to build a dead-end snowmobile trail up the ravine to near the base of the slides, a scenic area and there is plenty of snowmobile money. Then anybody caught in the ravine could self-rescue or at worst F&G could fetch them with a snowmobile. Think either of these will ever happen?

 

[Mike P.]

It would be nice to hear more from the hikers themselves. The last few years have been busy on Lafayette. Don't know if people take the MWO forecast & say, I'm off the Northern Presidentials, I'll do this easy trip instead. The western side of F-Notch provides no protection from incoming weather on Lafayette & with a NW wind, it's wide open. It may not be the Northern Presidentials but I'd say the weather most times on Lafayette is about 90% of the MWO conditions. (87% or 92% is close enough)

IMO, it's far easier finding the trail down off of Little Haystack then it is from the Lafayette summit. I prefer doing the loop counter-clockwise in summer but in the winter, I prefer clockwise. The hut provides a good spot to think about whether heading up is smart or not.

Did I read a 6:00 start to their car ride & it's about four hours? (my trip from CT is about the same) In winter, before I started staying up the night before, in winter, I wanted to be out of the house by 4:30, somedays, even earlier.

 

[eddie]

Yes, they do work. The signal is monitored, and the alert is passed on to the appropriate agency/location. My hunch was the PLB was a Spot. I know several people who carry them in the West, didn't realize people were starting to carry them in the East. Glad these guys got out OK.

I am late reading this thread but my question is: WHY ARE THEY OUT HIKING IN ****** CONDITIONS? Why would they expect someone to come save their sorry ***** when they should have stayed at home? I have a real problem with people like this.

SEND THEM THE RESCUE BILL!

 

[Raven]

The anti-fog trick that seems to work best is to make certain the goggles go OVER the mask, and seal against your nose, cheeks and face so no exhaled moisture can go UP under the mask and inside the goggles. There are numerous threads here which discuss this... myself and Chip are two people who put out a bit of moisture and have a fogging / icing problem. We're not alone, I'm sure. Putting the goggles near your skin or clothes in such a way that they get evaporated sweat on them means they'll freeze up once taken out of the warm spot. Be sure to never store them on your head. It helps once you put them on, leave them on and don't mess with them.

Tim

Have you considered using two pair? Keep one close inside your coat or pocket to switch when one freezes over. Put the frozen one closer to body heat inside the coat. Switch again when needed. Not ideal changing goggles in rough conditions, but it might beat trying to constantly de-ice one pair. I've not tried this myself and only carry one pair above treeline but have conisidered it as an option.

Yes, this would be a problem with my idea. Toss that one.

Having followed BikeHikeSkiDrip on a recent hike, I can also attest to his productive sweat glands. I would guess whatever works for him, will work for most people if in the arena of moisture control.

 

[TomD]

I am late reading this thread but my question is: WHY ARE THEY OUT HIKING IN ****** CONDITIONS? Why would they expect someone to come save their sorry ***** when they should have stayed at home? I have a real problem with people like this.

SEND THEM THE RESCUE BILL!

There is a fairly long discussion about this rescue on Trailspace with pros and cons for billing those rescued.