Never would've guessed a guy with this name would be doing research that could end the use of rice. You just never know.
RICE No More
- Thread starter erugs
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Never would've guessed a guy with this name would be doing research that could end the use of rice. You just never know.
Stan
Well-known member
I think there is sometimes a misunderstanding of icing. It strictly serves the short term purpose of pain relief. It does not contribute to healing.
It helps relieve pain by reducing inflammation. In simple terms, body tissue, like anything else, expands and contracts with temperature. By reducing temperature the tissue, and the inflammation, contract, only to return to the inflamed and painful state once the cold is removed and normal temperature restored.
Cold not only contracts the inflammation, it contracts the blood vessels which deliver the goods to help heal the cause of inflammation. Ancient Chinese medicine encourages the flow of the blood, it equates it with the flow of life. So, you might say RICE is not Chinese medicine.
Some suggest heat to help the healing as it does stimulate blood flow but the obvious tradeoff is that it can increase pain by increasing the inflammation.
Thus, use of ice is highly individualized as to the nature of the injury, the healing prospects and the threshold of pain of the injured. I often apply ice upon initial injury, especially a sports injury, to relieve pain and comfort the injured.
I suspect in this case there may be a need for some imobilization of the ankle as a continuous use or strain only serves to prolong the injury without sufficient pause to heal. Has your doctor prescribed a walking cast or the like?
It helps relieve pain by reducing inflammation. In simple terms, body tissue, like anything else, expands and contracts with temperature. By reducing temperature the tissue, and the inflammation, contract, only to return to the inflamed and painful state once the cold is removed and normal temperature restored.
Cold not only contracts the inflammation, it contracts the blood vessels which deliver the goods to help heal the cause of inflammation. Ancient Chinese medicine encourages the flow of the blood, it equates it with the flow of life. So, you might say RICE is not Chinese medicine.
Some suggest heat to help the healing as it does stimulate blood flow but the obvious tradeoff is that it can increase pain by increasing the inflammation.
Thus, use of ice is highly individualized as to the nature of the injury, the healing prospects and the threshold of pain of the injured. I often apply ice upon initial injury, especially a sports injury, to relieve pain and comfort the injured.
I suspect in this case there may be a need for some imobilization of the ankle as a continuous use or strain only serves to prolong the injury without sufficient pause to heal. Has your doctor prescribed a walking cast or the like?
erugs
New member
Yes, the study was done on mice. No, I don't have the exact data. My purpose in posting was not to give medical advice but to share information I received from a source I respect based on other information I have seen from the same person. Not wanting to argue the point, as I am not medically trained and don't think I need to be in order to share something online in this forum, but here is some more information from Dr. Gabe Mirkin as a FYI. I find it interesting, in that opinions on treatment, or what foods are good for you, what gear is best, favorite trails, what car you like to drive, etc. are all good to have in the mix of decision making.
QUOTE:
1) The same processes appear in healing muscle injuries and in killing invading germs.
2) Certain cells called macrophages rush to the damaged tissue to release
IGF-1 which helps heal muscles.
3) Applying ice inhibits macrophages from invading damaged tissue so they cannot release IGF-1 into the area to hasten healing.
These studies were done in mice
The research report shows that muscle inflammatory cells produce the highest levels of IGF-1, which improves muscle injury repair. Researchers studied two groups of mice. The first group of mice was genetically altered so they could not mount inflammatory responses to acute injury. The second group of mice was normal. Each group experienced muscle injury induced by barium chloride. The muscle injury in the first group of mice did not heal, but in the second group, their bodies repaired the injury. Further analysis showed that macrophages within injured muscles in the second group of mice produced a high level of IGF-1, leading to significantly improved muscle repair.
UNQUOTE
QUOTE:
1) The same processes appear in healing muscle injuries and in killing invading germs.
2) Certain cells called macrophages rush to the damaged tissue to release
IGF-1 which helps heal muscles.
3) Applying ice inhibits macrophages from invading damaged tissue so they cannot release IGF-1 into the area to hasten healing.
These studies were done in mice
The research report shows that muscle inflammatory cells produce the highest levels of IGF-1, which improves muscle injury repair. Researchers studied two groups of mice. The first group of mice was genetically altered so they could not mount inflammatory responses to acute injury. The second group of mice was normal. Each group experienced muscle injury induced by barium chloride. The muscle injury in the first group of mice did not heal, but in the second group, their bodies repaired the injury. Further analysis showed that macrophages within injured muscles in the second group of mice produced a high level of IGF-1, leading to significantly improved muscle repair.
UNQUOTE
Trainwreck
New member
I was sort of giggling when I read this thread. I have had my share of injuries, hence my screen name.
I hate ice, but it certainly was handy when I whacked myself in the face with my ice tool last year. Definately brought swelling and bruising to a minimum.
I had my knee replaced in March and all I heard was RICE. Nah. The ice made my pain worse, moist heat was comforting during my recovery. My knee didn't get more swollen with the heat, and it didn't get less swollen with ice.
Compression restricts blood flow so unless someone is bleeding heavily, I'd avoid that too.
Elevation. Maybe. I had no decrease in swelling in my ankle or knee from elevating it.
I have long thought that ice is fabulous for the very acute phase of a bad injury, but does not do anything to hasten recovery after that. NSAIDS are BAD for injuries. They delay bone healing and also cause more bleeding. I'll take the big guns, thank you.
Tylenol is like trying to piss in the ocean to raise the water level.
When I blew out my ankle up high on the Liberty Spring Trail a few years ago, I had no ice, couldn't elevate it because I walked (limped)out on it, but I did have DUCT TAPE. I tapede it up and got out without making the news.
Now that is a cure for what ails ya!!!!(I also carry some 'good'meds with me now
)
Leaf: have you had an MRI?
Sandy
I hate ice, but it certainly was handy when I whacked myself in the face with my ice tool last year. Definately brought swelling and bruising to a minimum.
I had my knee replaced in March and all I heard was RICE. Nah. The ice made my pain worse, moist heat was comforting during my recovery. My knee didn't get more swollen with the heat, and it didn't get less swollen with ice.
Compression restricts blood flow so unless someone is bleeding heavily, I'd avoid that too.
Elevation. Maybe. I had no decrease in swelling in my ankle or knee from elevating it.
I have long thought that ice is fabulous for the very acute phase of a bad injury, but does not do anything to hasten recovery after that. NSAIDS are BAD for injuries. They delay bone healing and also cause more bleeding. I'll take the big guns, thank you.
Tylenol is like trying to piss in the ocean to raise the water level.
When I blew out my ankle up high on the Liberty Spring Trail a few years ago, I had no ice, couldn't elevate it because I walked (limped)out on it, but I did have DUCT TAPE. I tapede it up and got out without making the news.
Now that is a cure for what ails ya!!!!(I also carry some 'good'meds with me now
)Leaf: have you had an MRI?
Sandy
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SAR-EMT40
Well-known member
I agree that it doesn't help healing directly but, it minimizes the damage done by the swelling and that helps the injury to heal faster. Ice is to be used the first 24 hours to help reduce swelling for all the reasons you have listed. After 24 hours the use of heat to promote healing has been advised in the past. The lack of application of RICE including the application of cooling in the first 24 hours has always been stated to delay the healing of the injury by not an inconsequential amount of time. Something like 80 percent of the swelling occurs in the first hour and almost all swelling occurs in the first 8 hours after the injury. The use of RICE including cooling in that first hour and then applications of cooling for 15 minutes for each following hours in that first 24 hours if possible helps the return of normal function considerably under all the conditions that I have seen both personally and professionally. After that first 24 hours, applications of heat should be used to promote the healing of the tissues.
Keith
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