Road and trail GPS?

[jjmcgo]

My wife has serious problems with directions and none of our cars have on-board systems that give directions.
I'm thinking of getting a system that would allow her to input starting point and destination and would give her verbal instructions on when to turn.
Is there a system that operates on 110V, 12V and batteries and can be removed from the car and programmed to use on trails?
I assume the 110V capability is so that it can be used in the house for charging, inputting, hooking up to computer programs, etc. The 12V for operation in the car and batteries for out on trails.
Thanks for any help you can give me.
Also, cost is a factor. If you know a source that sells used or refurbished at great discount, that would help.

 

[DougPaul]

Mdy wife has serious problems with directions and none of our cars have on-board systems that give directions.
I'm thinking of getting a system that would allow her to input starting point and destination and would give her verbal instructions on when to turn.

This is getting somewhat out of my area of expertise. I know the recent Garmin hiking GPSes, but don't know the automotive units very well. I will speak of Garmin units, but other brands may also do the job.

Is there a system that operates on 110V, 12V and batteries and can be removed from the car and programmed to use on trails? I assume the 110V capability is so that it can be used in the house for charging, inputting, hooking up to computer programs, etc. The 12V for operation in the car and batteries for out on trails.

The Garmin units run on batteries (usually 2 AA) and have an external power connector with cords/adaptors for 12V. (You can use a 110 -> 12 dc power supply if you wish.) Some of the Garmin units (60CSx, 76CSx, perhaps others) can be powered via the USB connector (from a computer). If you use the GPS very often, I suggest that you use NiMH rechargables--GPSes tend to eat batteries. (Search for threads talking about NiMH rechargables--there are several.)

In general, the hiking units are smaller and have a more complete set of features than do some of the automotive units. (I have only owned hiking units--they have been fine for me in the car.) The hiking units do not talk, but some (incl 60CSx and 76CSx beep and show a "what to do at the next intersection" display when navigating on the road.

You will also have to buy roadmaps (a computer program) to go with the GPS (unless included with the unit). The basemap is too coarse for practical road navigation. The program is very handy for planning routes and loading maps. You may also want to buy topo maps for hiking. (Make sure that whatever unit you choose allows you to load maps. Mapping memory is like computer memory--more is (almost) always better... Some units have external memory cards for map storage.)

* Color displays are much more readable than B&W.
* Autorouting can be nice, but I frequently like to plan the route on the computer and load it into the GPS. (The GPS may discard your route and auto-route, but there are ways around this.) Autorouting will occasionally surprise you... (There are also bugs in the maps.)
* Some of the automotive units simply say "turn left", some can speak street names, eg "turn left on main st". I use a display which shows how many miles to the next turn. On the (non-beeping) Vista I just wait until it counts down to near zero on my and the intersection is right in front of me. On my beeping 60CSx, I can watch the countdown or wait for the beep at which point it gives me a display of the coming intersection.

Also, cost is a factor. If you know a source that sells used or refurbished at great discount, that would help.

Don't have any specific recommendations. Froogle etc should be able to find a bunch. Even new ones are available at a significant discount over MSRP.

There is lots of info at http://www.gpsinformation.net. There are some pages on how to choose a GPS here.

Also, questions like this are often asked on sci.geo.satellite-nav: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.geo.satellite-nav?lnk=lr&hl=en. You can search of some of these threads or ask your own question. There are some real experts here (and a few idiots).

Garmin hiking units:
http://www.garmin.com/outdoor/products.html#mapping
Garmin automotive units:http://www.garmin.com/automotive/products.html#automotive

The Garmin website also has a nice comparson feature.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

Thought of something to add if you choose a mapping GPS*:

When you choose a GPS, look at the available maps that you might want to purchase. (In general loadable maps are available only from the manufacturer of the GPS hardware.) A while ago, Garmin's topo maps were much better than Magellan's, don't know it Magellan has caught up. Garmin has a map viewer on their website in case you would like to take a look before you buy.

Maps have a tendancy to lock the user to the manufacturer, because the old maps will generally work on newer GPSes and many users (including me...) are loathe to buy a new set of maps every time they upgrade their GPSes.

Note: Some (most?) of the current autorouting road maps that autoroute on the GPS are locked to the GPS**. (Garmin's maps of this type come with 2 unlocks. You can buy more, if needed.) I believe Garmin sells an unlocked road map that will display and autoroute on your computer, but only display on your GPS. The autorouting can be very useful in some circumstances, but can also produce some "odd" routes at times (amusing in some circumstances, frustrating in others) due to subtle errors in the underlying map data. BTW, the locking requirment seems to be coming from the map supplier, not the GPS manufacturer.

The topo maps are not locked and can be used on any number of GPSes.

* I greatly prefer mapping GPSes over non-mapping GPSes. My guess is that most new users will too.

** Garmin Metroguide V4 (no longer available) is a lock-free autorouting road map. You might be able to find a used copy. The data is a bit old, buth the major roads don't change that often. Its coverage of rural roads is reputed to be better than that of some of the more recent maps.

Doug
who has both road and topo maps on his GPS.

 

[Jay H]

If she is not good with directions, would she be able to program the thing?


I don't think a lot of the handheld GPSs that are made for hiking would be good for driving, first of all, the screens are really tiny for driving and none of them that I know of have any other sounds other than the occasional beep, let alone voice activated directions.

Vice Versa, most of the car navigation systems are big and bulky, so not exactly great for hiking and with their larger screens and 12v input, would make it heavy and power hungry.

Some of the more pricier handhelds have a basemap of COUNTY level roads, like the Garmin Vista, but not all and again, it wont talk to you.

Only thing I can think of that might work or might work is one of those PDA with GPS software hooked up to speakers when you're in the car and not without. It would have it's own power supply and a 12v DC adaptor for your car...

Jay

 

[DougPaul]

Only thing I can think of that might work or might work is one of those PDA with GPS software hooked up to speakers when you're in the car and not without. It would have it's own power supply and a 12v DC adaptor for your car...

This approach isn't very good for hiking. Not very weather-proof and not very rugged. Also poor battery life.

I personally use a hiking unit (60CS or 60CSx) for both hiking and in the car. It beeps to get my attention, but does not talk. And the screen is a bit small, but adequate for me. The automotive units seem to be getting more and more specialized for automotive navigation and less suitable for hiking. If one really can't live without the top-of-the-line features for both uses, one may just have to buy 2 GPSes...

Doug

 

[jbrown]

Now you're talking my area of expertise!
(I'm an account manager for a distributor of GPS and consumer electronics.)

Garmin's Nuvi line will have Topo maps available for them soon (if they haven't launched already)

Magellan has a couple of vehicle navigation units that can be upgraded with topo maps for off road use.
The Magellan Crossover is not out yet, but it will do everything you want plus have water charts too.
The Magellan RoadMate 2200T (second one down) is currently available, and is upgradable with topo maps.

All of the above mentioned units were designed primarily as vehicle navigation units with very intuitive interfaces. A user may simply enter an address or point of interest as a destination, and the unit does the rest. All will give spoken directions, some feature "text to speech" meaning instead of just "turn right up ahead," the unit will say ,"turn right on spring street."

I could keep going, but I have GPS to sell!

Good luck!

 

[Jay H]

This approach isn't very good for hiking. Not very weather-proof and not very rugged. Also poor battery life.

I personally use a hiking unit (60CS or 60CSx) for both hiking and in the car. It beeps to get my attention, but does not talk. And the screen is a bit small, but adequate for me. The automotive units seem to be getting more and more specialized for automotive navigation and less suitable for hiking. If one really can't live without the top-of-the-line features for both uses, one may just have to buy 2 GPSes...

Doug

Yeah, I doubt those automotive GPSs are that great for hiking either, they have large color LCD screens which surely eat batteries, are they waterproof too? I mean, it's meant to be inside a car or perhaps would they market them to motorcycles?

I have used my Garmin Etrex Vista for bike touring but when cycling, the small non backlit screen is just large enough for me to use. Driving however, I can't imagine having to look at it for any detail at speeds and remain a safe driver.

Jay

 

[jbrown]

are they waterproof too? I mean, it's meant to be inside a car or perhaps would they market them to motorcycles?

The Magellan Crossover is waterproof, and I forgot about the Garmin Zumo. It's for motorcycles, but I don't think there are any topo maps available for it.

If you look at the specs for the 2200T, you'll see that it is waterproof to IPX-4 ("Protected against splashing water) and has an 8 hour battery life (that's continuous use.) Heck, you pair that up with a solar trickle charger when not in use (like the Solio, and you're all set. Plus it's an MP3 player and photo viewer.

 

[DougPaul]

Yeah, I doubt those automotive GPSs are that great for hiking either, they have large color LCD screens which surely eat batteries, are they waterproof too? I mean, it's meant to be inside a car or perhaps would they market them to motorcycles?

They tend to be large and designed for dash use, not in-your-hand use. I think some don't have internal batteries. Don't know if they are all waterproof. I have read complaints such as "no tracklog". I think some don't have a computer interface either. It looks to me more and more like some of the units are being marketed as stand-alone applicances berift of some of the features that advanced users hold near and dear. You will have to check the manufacturer's info for the detailed feature lists.

I have used my Garmin Etrex Vista for bike touring but when cycling, the small non backlit screen is just large enough for me to use. Driving however, I can't imagine having to look at it for any detail at speeds and remain a safe driver.

I used to use a Vista in the car. I glanced at it to read the number fields (eg speed, distance to next turn)--they were readable. I couldn't read any of the text on the map, but if I had studied the map ahead of time, I could recognize the major intersections by shape (much easier if you use north-up rather than track-up orientation). I now use a 60CS or 60CSx in the car--significantly more readable, except I find parts of the intersection preview display to be somewhat hard to read. (I would have designed it somewhat differently, but they didn't ask me... )

No matter what GPS you use in the car, you need to have everything setup so that you can get what you need in a quick glance.

BTW, the Vista does have a backlit screen.

Doug

 

[PeterM]

Mio 310x $199

fyi guys-

I've had years of experience with 2 Magellan SporTrak Pro loaded with Topo maps.

I just bought the Mio 310x on sale at staples this past Sunday at $199 ( from 399 ) - I gotta say this thing is killer! You get color screen with great display, car cord, home cord - it charges to give you 5hrs cap, plus has mp3 player. Has all US roads on its internal hard drive, will fit in your pocket.

Downside like all/most car units is that they're only set up for roads. It will track you in the woods, and I think will give you a backtrack, but thats it. And when the batteries quit you can't drop in a new set.

So its awesome for what it was designed for - but do all, no way!

 

[DougPaul]

its internal hard drive,!

I've seen reports of poor reliability of hard drives in the automotive environment. Might not be too good for hiking either.

Flash memory is better on both counts. Probably consumes less power too.

Doug

 

[Jay H]

BTW, the Vista does have a backlit screen.

Doug

Yeah, I have one, but is there a setting to leave the screen on. I know you can adjust the delay but seems to me to be a pain to have to hit the right side button everytime you want to view the screen.

Jay

 

[DougPaul]

Yeah, I have one, but is there a setting to leave the screen on. I know you can adjust the delay but seems to me to be a pain to have to hit the right side button everytime you want to view the screen.

You can set the on time through the setup menu. It includes a "stay on" setting. The backlight consumes power and will shorten the battery life, so I only use it when I need it.

The basic Vista consumes 120ma and the backlight adds 30ma.

FWIW, the latest firmware is 3.70 (June 12, 2006). Available from the Garmin website.

Doug