Roadbiking vs Running 4 Crosstraining

[Mike P.]

Both would work, knees might need more recovery if you ran, hips might be an issue if you road bike a lot but probably okay:

I have four brothers, one rides over 100 miles a week when possible & is a class 2 racer. another brother runs 25-30 miles a week & does 5K in 18 minutes & 4.77 miles under 30. Has done 10K's & 1/2 Marathons, Neither hike.

The bicyclist used to run the Manchester (CT) Turkey Day Race until one year his hip bothered him after the race for a few days. I don't think he cross trains unless you count a trainer of his bike or his Mt. Bike as cross-training. I have had him hike once or twice with me 13 years ago.

Both are in great shape 6'1 160 pound biker, 5'11" 170 runner. The bicyclist has a thin frame, the runner's frame is not much different than mine except for the 50 pounds. many years ago I had a brief visit with 180, I'd say I'm slightly bigger.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Calorie burn is a function of sustainable heart rate and muscle recruitment. Higher HR, more muscles = more calories. Cross-country skiing recruits more muscles than any other exercise I am aware of, particularly when skating.

For example, my lactate threshold (LT aka AT-Anaerobic Threshold), when cycling is around 167 +/- 2 (depending on fitness, rest, hydration, etc.) For an individual time trial (ITT), which is my best cycling event, I can push myself around 172 for 30 minutes or so. This of course produces a nice lactic acid burn, as I am every-so-slightly beyond my LT. Climbing Pinnacle Hill in the Harvard (MA) Road Race, many years ago, on the 4th lap, I saw 184 bpm, and nearly saw stars as well.

On the other hand, I can ski an uphill black diamond (skating technique) at about 182-3 bpm because I am using more muscles (and supplying more muscles with oxygen) and thus my LT is higher.

Regardless of your chosen aerobic activity, technique plays a large part in your ability to burn calories. As you become more efficient you have to work harder to incur the same caloric requirements. For me personally, I can burn about 950 calories an hour when riding near my lactate threshold, as measured by the LifeCycle, when properly programmed with my weight. This jives with values computed from various books that put it in the 920-970 range. I've never computed it for XC skiing, but the % increase in HR says it should be about 1050-1100.

As they say when you are climbing Everest -- "When your resting heart rate equals your maximum heart rate, all you can do is rest". (from Into Thin Air, Jon Krakauer)

FWIW, Lance Armstrong was a triathlete prior to converting solely to a road rider.

Tim

 

[dave.m]

Note to self....

Stash the beers in Tim's pack!! :^)

 

[DougPaul]

Note to self....

Stash the beers in Tim's pack!! :^)

Also tell him where you are going when skiing...

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

I think it's well understood that in terms of burning calories and producing aerobic benifit, the more weight bearing the excercise is, the better. Cycling is better than swimming. Running is better than cycling....... in this narrow regard.

My understanding is that XC ski racing and rowing are tops (both whole body exercises)--the athletes-in-training can consume 14K cal/day.

Doug

 

[bikehikeskifish]

My understanding is that XC ski racing and rowing are tops (both whole body exercises)--the athletes-in-training can consume 14K cal/day.

Doug

Rowing is right up there. Some of the toughest crossover cyclists were rowers. A lot were also speed skaters (very similar muscle usage) or skate skiers. The latter uses more abs and more arms. Chris Witty was an Olympic gold medalist in speed skating, and a former US National Road Race (cycling) champion. She used to ride her bike to her skating workouts The speed skaters were usually really good sprinters, while former runners were often good climbers (lightweight, high power-to-weight ratios.)

14K seems a little bit high to me. I've heard/read the Tour de France cyclists do in the neighborhood of 9K per day, at an average of 6 hours in the saddle. [http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/16/magazine/16landis.html?ex=1171947600&en=e6b9e5c889a359d5&ei=5070 says 10K, or about 17 big macs]

Tim

 

[DougPaul]

14K seems a little bit high to me. I've heard/read the Tour de France cyclists do in the neighborhood of 9K per day, at an average of 6 hours in the saddle.

I forget where I got the number for XC skiers, but I have vague recollection that it might have been Dr Murray Hamlet.

And then I heard that rowing was similar.

Doug

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Googling: calories burned cross country cycling reveals a chart, on multiple sites, which lists common activities and calories burned. I've included some here, based on the 190 pound column -- pretty close to my weight. I took the liberty of sorting them in descending order by calories burned. I also filtered them down some removing those I felt were impractical, uninteresting or repetitive.

Other links found via this search indicate that walking and running too efficient (by design of the human body) for effective cardiovascular workouts, but they also appeared to be selling a 4-minute workout device

There are probably a few VFTTers who can run a 5.5 minute mile, but not this one. I could do an 8 minute mile when I ran regularly, 10 years ago.

Running, 10.9 mph (5.5 min mile)	       1553
Skiing, cross-country, uphill, max	       1423
Bicycling, >20mph, racing	               1380
Running, 10 mph (6 min mile)	               1380
Running, stairs, up	                       1294
Skating, ice, speed, competitive	       1294
Skiing, cross-country, racing	               1208
Running, 7.5mph (8 min mile)	               1078
Boxing, in ring, general	               1035
Canoeing, rowing, crewing, competition	       1035
Rope jumping, fast	                       1035
Rowing, stationary, very vigorous	       1035
Rock climbing, ascending rock	               949
Swimming, butterfly, general	               949
Racquetball, competitive	               863
Rope jumping, moderate, general	               863
Swimming laps- fast-vigorous	               863
Ski machine, general	                       819
Running, cross country	                       776
Skating, ice, rapidly, > 9 mph	               776
Skiing, cross-country, vigorous	               776
Calisthenics, home, vigorous	               690
Circuit training, general	               690
Hockey, ice	                               690
Rock climbing, rapelling	               690
Skiing, cross-country, moderate	               690
Skiing, downhill, vigorous , racing	       690
Snow shoeing	                               690
Walking, upstairs	                       690
Aerobics, high impact	                       604
Skiing, cross-country, slow or light	       604
Skiing, snow, general	                       604
Aerobics, general	                       518
Basketball, nongame, general	               518
Hiking, cross country	                       518
Skiing, downhill, moderate	               518
Weight lifting/body building, vigorous	       518
Walking, 3.0 mph, mod. pace	               302

Tim

 

[Bolivia]

Biking, running, et al

Exercise is good and there are various ways to get it. Though not specific to hiking, swimming is the "best" overall exercize you can get.

Having seen many runners, I have to ask -- Have you ever seen one who looks like he/she is having fun?

Just get out and do you thing...

 

[Artex]

Having seen many runners, I have to ask -- Have you ever seen one who looks like he/she is having fun?

Hmmmmm, I've heard that question asked many times before and it simply doesn't make sense. Does one have to have a silly smile on their face at all times to have fun, especially when they're training hard? I'm never smiling when running, but I'm loving every minute of it. On a related note, most people aren't smiling during sex, but certainly are afterwards!

Back on the subject... as others have said, I agree that both are great. Do what suits you best. I mostly run, but have a road bike that I love taking out in warmer weather for some X-training.

Best of luck. Important thing is find what you enjoy, get out there and do it.

 

[Snowflea]

Exercise is good and there are various ways to get it. Though not specific to hiking, swimming is the "best" overall exercize you can get. Having seen many runners, I have to ask -- Have you ever seen one who looks like he/she is having fun?

Umm... well... yeah, I have! I've seen many, many, MANY runners who look like--indeed ARE--having a blast while running. I wish you could see some of the ~85 ultrarunners who are going to take part in a 6-day crazy/fringe/extreme trailrunning/partying/bowling/socializing event here in SoCal this week, where some will try to run as much as 196 miles. I would bet money that each and every one will have fun.

The best overall exercise is the one that you enjoy most.

Artex, you CRACK me up.

 

[daxs]

YES! One can have fun while running. OF course, as with any exercise, there are bad days ( in south jersey that would mean major wind gusts) when it not quite as fun.

 

[iceNsnow]

Just look at a runner

that can't run and see how miserable they are!

I love to run!
I love to do a lot of things, but running is so free. And running in the mts is even better than anywhere!

 

[DougPaul]

Having seen many runners, I have to ask -- Have you ever seen one who looks like he/she is having fun?

Most of us here hike or pursue a similar outdoor activity. Our chosen activities include (let me use winter hiking as an example here) hard physical work, discomfort, pain, cold, wet, fog, ice, wind, risk, occasional injuries, etc...

Yet we still do them and claim that we are enjoying ourselves (and how you dare object--you aren't "one of us" and you "don't get it").

Why should running be any different?

Doug

 

[Danielle]

Having fun

From Bolivia:

Having seen many runners, I have to ask -- Have you ever seen one who looks like he/she is having fun?

As Snowman and I always say, it's not an adventure if you're having fun!

From DougPaul:

Most of us here hike or pursue a similar outdoor activity. Our chosen activities include (let me use winter hiking as an example here) hard physical work, discomfort, pain, cold, wet, fog, ice, wind, risk, occasional injuries, etc...

I agree! As a hiker and runner, both of these activities involve the potential for lots of pain and suffering. However, you couldn't keep me from continuing these chosen recreational no matter how hard you tried (injuries aside, in which case I'm really bummed to have to be a "normal" person and have to sit on the couch on the weekend )!

Regarding the original question about what is better cross training for hiking... well, I'm not a biker, so I have to say running But seriously, hiking is really the best training for hiking. And if you can't hike, then do whatever you can to get out and exercise. Getting out and doing something is better than doing nothing. That's my take on it... For me that's running in the spring/summer/fall and xc skiing/snowshoeing and running in the winter.

 

[DougPaul]

Personally, I hate running and always have. I love biking, but it ain't hiking.

Hiking with a pack puts much different demands on your musculoskeletal and cardiovascular systems than running. So, here's some advice that many of you will probably decry, to your disadvantage IMO.

Load the pack. Put the pack on. Walk up and down steep stuff for long periods of time. (If your local terrain is too flat, then you probably have a tall building nearby with stairs. Yeah, it's boring and hot. Get some music for your headphones, and get at it.) Repeat until you feel good doing it. Then repeat some more.

You will feel much, much better in the mountains. And you can smile snidely as you pass me on the trail, because I haven't done enough of this lately.

Spot-on!

My version is to stick a 40 lb pack on my back and walk up and down a 250 ft hill (on sidewalks). (Used to have a choice of two such hills available from my doorstep. And then I moved to the current flatlands... ) Only took about an hour. 2 or so times during the week and I could fly during the weekends, particularly if I only had a ~15 lb daypack.

Tim touches on another very important point in post 9. Most exercises focus on the muscles producing energy (concentric contractions, ie the muscle shortening under tension). Appropriate for hiking uphill, biking, or lifting weights. Hiking downhill requires the muscles (quads in particular) to absorb energy (eccentric contractions, muscle lengthening under tension). This uses a different mechanism and has to be trained independently (by walking downhill, lowering weights, etc). But note that no freewheel bike can train the eccentric contractions!.

There have been previous posts by cyclists who blasted up the mountain and had rather painful descents... So if you use cycling as a major component of your cross-training, make sure that you also include adequate training for the eccentric contractions, particularly of your quads. Also for a number of the foot muscles (shock absorbers...).

Inadequate eccentric contraction strength is also a major factor in some wear-and-tear injuries (eg achilles tendonitis, shin splints, etc) and can be a rapid road to over-training. (Been there, done that, believe me, you don't want to try it.)

This as been discussed a number of times previously. Search on the word "eccentric" to find them.

Doug

 

[lx93]

That's More What I Was Looking for...

Doug, Tim, Sardog,

Thanx- your posts have been the best so far at answering my original question...