SAR in Franconia Notch?

[JToll]

We were going south through Franconia Notch at 6:45 pm Saturday and saw what looked to be a SAR operation. There were several trucks and police in the northbound lane just after the Basin. I read about a rescue on the Greenleaf Trail, but this was several miles south of the Greenleaf trailhead.

 

[Salty]

Surprise... two separate incidents.

2019-08-31 Callout #19 - Eagle Cliff, Franconia Notch - Injured climber
2019-08-31 Callout #20 - Falling Waters Trail - injured hiker

https://www.facebook.com/pemisar/

 

[DayTrip]

It's getting to the point where they should just station a SAR team at the Lafayette parking area every weekend. Seems like there is an accident every weekend on the Falling Waters Trail now.

 

[Lost Dad]

2019-09-01 Callout #21 - Old Bridle Path
https://www.facebook.com/pemisar/

Sounds like they ought to hand out headlamps to all hikers heading down OBP after a certain hour. I like the idea of carrying an extra inexpensive headlamp or 2 myself in case I ever run across someone in need. Maybe PemiSAR needs to run a headlamp collection to offset all the loaners that are never returned.

 

[sierra]

2019-09-01 Callout #21 - Old Bridle Path
https://www.facebook.com/pemisar/

Sounds like they ought to hand out headlamps to all hikers heading down OBP after a certain hour. I like the idea of carrying an extra inexpensive headlamp or 2 myself in case I ever run across someone in need. Maybe PemiSAR needs to run a headlamp collection to offset all the loaners that are never returned.

You would really carry extra lamps and hand them out? Not me, the way to learn is to find out what you need through experience. A slow walk out with multiple trips and falls, will enforce the need for them to buy their own lights. Once descending Washington, I ran into group of unprepared hikers. One of the girls was cold, I mean teeth chattering cold. I gave her one of my jackets and said, leave at the trading post, I'll get later. I booked on down, went to Gorham for a bit. On my way back through stopped at Pinkham. Was my jacket at the front desk? take a wild guess, 200 bucks gone.

 

[skiguy]

You would really carry extra lamps and hand them out? Not me, the way to learn is to find out what you need through experience. A slow walk out with multiple trips and falls, will enforce the need for them to buy their own lights. Once descending Washington, I ran into group of unprepared hikers. One of the girls was cold, I mean teeth chattering cold. I gave her one of my jackets and said, leave at the trading post, I'll get later. I booked on down, went to Gorham for a bit. On my way back through stopped at Pinkham. Was my jacket at the front desk? take a wild guess, 200 bucks gone.

That’s just bad karma. I had a similar experience on Whitehorse ledge. Girl climbing above us dropped her belay device almost taking me out. Between my partner and I we had an extra device and gave it to her when we got to where she was anchored. We just ask for her to leave it at IME when they got down. Never saw it again. Should have left them there tied off to the side of the cliff.

 

[jniehof]

Should have left them there tied off to the side of the cliff.

Munter is a friend to all children.

 

[skiguy]

Always exchange contact information. Nowadays it's really easy with cell phones.

In all practicality that would have been nice. But this was in the day before one carried a cell phone while cragging. Not that I would be doing that present day anyhow. I also at that time didn't carry sticky notes and a pencil. Besides in that day there still was a common brotherhood or at least a perceiving of that paradigm. Meet up FB didn't exist. I think the point was we were doing what we thought was a good deed at the time.

 

[skiguy]

Munter is a friend to all children.

Agreed. Although it was not the time and place for a climbing lesson to whom someone I did not know. Besides after being whizzed by their dropped device I think they may have been beyond the point of that level of comprehension.

 

[peakbagger]

2019-09-01 Callout #21 - Old Bridle Path
https://www.facebook.com/pemisar/

Sounds like they ought to hand out headlamps to all hikers heading down OBP after a certain hour. I like the idea of carrying an extra inexpensive headlamp or 2 myself in case I ever run across someone in need. Maybe PemiSAR needs to run a headlamp collection to offset all the loaners that are never returned.

I remember years ago when the AMC was trying to get to get the Hut permit approved that one of the points of contention was that AMC was effectively running a convenience store at the huts. They agreed to substantially reduce the inventory to "safety gear". One of the items that continued to be offered was flashlights specifically for hikers who forgot theirs. I do remember long ago that a dayhiker who planned poorly by not carrying a flashlight on a Mt Washington hike raised a big stink that AMC refused to make room for them in the hut overnight as the hiker lacked a flashlight and was tired. AMCs response was that they would gladly sell them a flashlight for their trip down to the base. Note in recent years, the huts offering does seem to have crept back to the convenience store to the point that Madison Hut was selling pulled pork sandwiches cooked to order for lunch the last time I stopped by this summer.

 

[skiguy]

I remember years ago when the AMC was trying to get to get the Hut permit approved that one of the points of contention was that AMC was effectively running a convenience store at the huts. They agreed to substantially reduce the inventory to "safety gear". One of the items that continued to be offered was flashlights specifically for dayhikers who forgot theirs. I do remember long ago that a hiker who planned poorly by not carrying a flashlight on a Mt Washington hike raised a big stink that AMC refused to make room for them in the hut overnight as the hiker lacked a flashlight and was tired. AMCs response was that they would gladly sell them a flashlight for their trip down to the base. Note in recent years, the huts offering does seem to have crept back to the convenience store to the point that Madison Hut was selling pulled pork sandwiches cooked to order for lunch the last time I stopped by this summer.

Would you know what the parameters are for a non profit essentially acting as a concession? It seems as if these types of services are being offered within a National Forest it should be put out for bid rather than the AMC monopolizing the situation. My only guess would be that it is part of their lease agreement. On the other side of it a pulled pork sandwich at almost five thousand feet after hiking sounds pretty good.

 

[DayTrip]

Would you know what the parameters are for a non profit essentially acting as a concession? It seems as if these types of services are being offered within a National Forest it should be put out for bid rather than the AMC monopolizing the situation. My only guess would be that it is part of their lease agreement. On the other side of it a pulled pork sandwich at almost five thousand feet after hiking sounds pretty good.

I believe it was last year I passed by Lake Of Clouds hut and they were running an actual take out window with multiple food options, noodle dish and some other stuff. They actually had a menu board hanging on the side of hut. Thought that was a bit much. Not much of a wilderness experience.

 

[Will]

Madison Hut was selling pulled pork sandwiches cooked to order for lunch the last time I stopped by this summer.

Last year on closing day, cooking all the leftover food, it was turkey sandwiches as I remember. But the person I talked with was very careful not to be "selling" them. There was the tip jar and there may have been a suggested amount.

 

[peakbagger]

All I know is reigning back on the inventory for sale was reportedly part of the negotiations for continuing the, at the time, contentious hut permit. The year after, they didn't stock any snack food.

I heard from an older hut crew employee at one point that the crew got to keep the profit from certain side business specifically the snacks and morning leftover sales. The current crew does seem to be pretty casual with how the money is handled for snacks. They may have prices on them (which vary hut to hut) but its run more like a tip arrangement where the money container is not monitored and many folks round up their purchases than an actual purchase which would be expected if they have to report revenue to mothership. If you look at their per portion cost versus ingredient cost, it does seem to be a nice sideline.

 

[jniehof]

Agreed. Although it was not the time and place for a climbing lesson to whom someone I did not know.

Absolutely. I'm tsking at them for not knowing it, not at you for not conducting a cliffside lesson. It's part of the age-old story that what you need to know and carry in the backcountry 95% of the time is a fraction of what you need to cover the 100%....

 

[ChrisB]

Munter is a friend to all children.

Exactly.

There was a time -- pre ATCs and other devices-- when folks climbed and belays were safely made. Not the ideal, but totally functional nevertheless.

But if you learned to climb in a gym, you probably never saw a hip belay in use!

 

[alexmtn]

I believe it was last year I passed by Lake Of Clouds hut and they were running an actual take out window with multiple food options, noodle dish and some other stuff. They actually had a menu board hanging on the side of hut. Thought that was a bit much. Not much of a wilderness experience.

A hut's 'retail' offerings fall into two categories. In the first category are the aforementioned safety-related items that folks forget to bring, along with a few items of hut swag--all stored and sold at a small reception counter. Revenue from this stuff goes to AMC, and the volume is low.

The second category is the sale of surplus food items from meals served to the paying guests. Most usual are baked goods and soup, but occasionally a visitor can score a 'pulled pork-class' item from the prior night's dinner. Revenue from these things, along with something to drink such as lemonade, goes to the hut 'croo' members as gratuities, typically a buck or two a pop.

From first hand observation on hut visits numbering in the double digits each year, the availability of items in both categories is universally appreciated by visitors. The limited amounts food available each day are typically gobbled up by lunchtime. Personally, I've not witnessed a grumble or grimace related to these sales--just smiles. I'm finding it a challenge to fathom a downside.

Alex

 

[DayTrip]

Personally, I've not witnessed a grumble or grimace related to these sales--just smiles. I'm finding it a challenge to fathom a downside.
Alex

I'm somewhat of a "snobby purist" when it comes to the wilderness. Not a huge fan of huts, artificial structures and other "trappings" of modern existence in the woods that could also be found in my local mall. I would put a take out window at 5,000 feet into that category. It's the blurring of a line between life back home and a day in the woods and I personally don't like it. I'm well aware of the fact that I am in the minority on that viewpoint. I've never used a hut bathroom, filled up water or anything else for that matter at a hut other than sit on the deck outside and talk to people or croo members. It's rare that I even go inside the summit building on Mt Washington during a hike, and rarer still that I buy anything. And when I do I generally kick myself for being a hypocrite.

If whatever they're doing and selling makes money for a good cause and/or solves some sort of need I have no problem with it. I'm not out pushing for removal of huts, etc. The hut is already there so they might as well maximize the fun and the profits out of it for as many people as they can. I just wish the hut wasn't there in the first place. That's all.

 

[egilbe]

The AMC also maintains the trails we all hike on. I believe purchasing from the huts also supports the AMC and therefore trails? That's how I look at it, anyway. I don't mind the huts at Mizpah, LOC or Madison Springs. I really despise the summit buildings on Washington. That is my least favorite place in the Whites.

 

[David Metsky]

The AMC also maintains the trails we all hike on.

While the AMC trail croo does do a lot of work, the bulk of trails in the Whites are maintained by the WMNF trail crew, as well as many other volunteer and paid crews including the Dartmouth Outing Club, the Randolph Mountain Club, the Wonalancet Outdoors Club, Belknap Rangers, Trailwrights, Waterville Valley Athletic and Improvement Association, and a handful of others. The AMC is an important player, and they help maintain many of the trails to the huts, but they're not the controlling body nor do they maintain the most miles of trails.