Scotland

[werdigo49]

I'll be hiking in Scotland for 7 weeks this summer, starting with the West Highland Way with plans, then, to tackle the 200-mile Cape Wrath Trail. (I also have Chris Townsend's book on day hikes, and a guidebook to the Great Glen Way, if I get through Cape Wrath OK and still have some time.)

Any suggestions from the VFTT group? I've done the Long and Northville-Placid Trails and am an Adk46r and a fairly experienced backpacker.

I'm not sure what to do about maps --- the "North to the Cape" [Wrath] guidebook recommends OS Explorer 1:25,000 maps (13 of them, at about 7 or 8 lbs-sterling each) but only 5 OS Landrangers (1:50,000) would cover the path and some groups have used them. But I also have a Garmin 76CSx that I've never really learned to use; the 1:50K Landranger maps for all of Great Britain can be purchased on a microSD card (for $200).

It should be an interesting couple of months! Any advice?

 

[Kevin Rooney]

I'd PM Hillwalker. He spends much time in Scotland.

 

[roadtripper]

I have no personal experience with that area, but I did notice a book on amazon called "not the west highland way" that talks about side trips off that classic route. Might be worth looking at.

 

[Creag Nan Drochaid]

Walking in Scotland

Hillwalker spends much time there, and I am sure knows it better than I do. In the 1990s I went there for the hillwalking etc. and have walked in the Borders, Galloway, Ben Nevis/Glen Coe region, Torridon, Cairngorms, Stac Pollaidh, and a few more that don't spring to mind just now. I hope to return soon, but meantime would be delighted to try to answer what questions you have. Sorry I know only paper maps. Try Googling the Ordnance Survey to learn of the series of maps that cover recreation areas.
All the Best,
Creag nan drochaid

 

[Mohamed Ellozy]

I'm not sure what to do about maps --- the "North to the Cape" [Wrath] guidebook recommends OS Explorer 1:25,000 maps (13 of them, at about 7 or 8 lbs-sterling each) but only 5 OS Landrangers (1:50,000) would cover the path and some groups have used them. But I also have a Garmin 76CSx that I've never really learned to use; the 1:50K Landranger maps for all of Great Britain can be purchased on a microSD card (for $200).

Every single Swiss hiking book I have read recommends their 1:25,000 maps; I have always found the 1:50,000 maps totally adequate. I use my GPS regularly, but still use paper maps as my primary tool, so would not recommend going paperless (am I getting old and failing to adapt to new technology ).

 

[Hillwalker]

I'll be hiking in Scotland for 7 weeks this summer, starting with the West Highland Way with plans, then, to tackle the 200-mile Cape Wrath Trail. (I also have Chris Townsend's book on day hikes, and a guidebook to the Great Glen Way, if I get through Cape Wrath OK and still have some time.)

Any suggestions from the VFTT group? I've done the Long and Northville-Placid Trails and am an Adk46r and a fairly experienced backpacker.

I'm not sure what to do about maps --- the "North to the Cape" [Wrath] guidebook recommends OS Explorer 1:25,000 maps (13 of them, at about 7 or 8 lbs-sterling each) but only 5 OS Landrangers (1:50,000) would cover the path and some groups have used them. But I also have a Garmin 76CSx that I've never really learned to use; the 1:50K Landranger maps for all of Great Britain can be purchased on a microSD card (for $200).

It should be an interesting couple of months! Any advice?

Well Hello,
You are in for a treat. This coming May I will be heading back to Scotland for a month of hillwalking, peak bagging and backpacking. My 10th time over there for just those activities. The West Highland Way you find quite busy and very tame, with places to eat and stay all along the way. The route to Cape Wrath is just the reverse. On my 09 trip, my second WHW, this time southbound, I must have said “good morning” to a hundred passing northbounders each day.

On the CWT I met just six other hikers along the way doing the route at the
same time, and maybe four day hikers.

I currently am working on a very tardy blog about the hike located at [email protected]. It’s chronologically reversed at this time.

I have all the Hinchcliffe/Brooks recommended 1:50,000 maps which you may borrow for your trip if you would like. I also have the MemoryMap CD and chip that I used in my 60csx. They are a registered license so I don’t think it would be possible to loan them out, but I would recommend that you buy them.

In preparation, I loaded the MemoryMap CD onto my home PC and then using the North to the Cape book and drew the route out on the PC. I then dumped it to my 60csx for use in Scotland. The only time I used the GPS was in places that the trail disappeared (frequently) I turned the GPS on to see how far my plot was from my actual position. Did this maybe a dozen times over the 200+ miles. In some locations, finding the correct watershed to follow is a real problem in mist and fog. Due to battery life I kept the GPS off most of the time.

Hinchcliffe’s book is a bit out of date, and doesn’t show the location of bothys along the way therefore I missed a few that would have been nice. After I got back home I joined the Scottish Mountain Bothy Association to get a list, and now they have the locations somewhat on-line: http://www.mountainbothies.org.uk/index.asp

I will give you the route corrections if you would like. In one location the book’s instruction had us walking in a shin deep bog for over an hour in the rain when there was a perfectly good forestry road only 100 meters away in the woods that had been built after the book was published. I will send you the coordinates of the bothys along the CWT in another communication.
When are you going over? I am heading over for a month in May to fill in a 45 mile section that I skipped, Backpack Hadrian’s Wall route and the Great Glen Way. I am also going to spend a week in Kinlochewe to peakbag some of those Torridon beauties that I walked past on my CWT walk.

Rather than putting this in a PM, I sent all this on line just in case anyone else might be interested in walking in my ancestral homeland. A Peakbagger’s paradise with 280+ summits over 3000 feet (Munroes) and virtually no trees with daylight in the summer over 18 hours a day.
Doesn’t sound like much until you discover that many of the climbs begin at or near sea level. For example our Mt. Lafayette is only a 2849 foot ascent from the parking lot.

More to follow if you would like, Tom

 

[werdigo49]

Wow! Thanks, Tom! Now my principal worry is to avoid trying to take too much advantage of your generosity, of being a pest to you! I absolutely "would like" to hear anything you can add. (I'll swing by your blog spot too.)

I'm flying out of Philadelphia (my home is Baltimore; Newcomb is just a camp) on May 26 and arriving in Glasgow about 7 AM on Friday May 27. I'm hoping things go smoothly enough for me to pick up some fuel for my stove in Milngavie and reach the first "wild camping" site along the West Highland Way that evening. My return flight, again out of Glasgow International, is July 14.

At present my inclination is to buy a set of the 1:50K maps (there's a 3 for 2 sale until the end of March) because I wouldn't want to damage yours. I'm not familiar with MemoryMap but will Google it.

I've got some prep work to do yet (obtaining some Neos Superlight overboots, and a canvas duffel bag to protect the backpack as checked baggage, for examples) but there's still some time.

 

[Hillwalker]

Wow! Thanks, Tom! Now my principal worry is to avoid trying to take too much advantage of your generosity, of being a pest to you! I absolutely "would like" to hear anything you can add. (I'll swing by your blog spot too.)

I'm flying out of Philadelphia (my home is Baltimore; Newcomb is just a camp) on May 26 and arriving in Glasgow about 7 AM on Friday May 27. I'm hoping things go smoothly enough for me to pick up some fuel for my stove in Milngavie and reach the first "wild camping" site along the West Highland Way that evening. My return flight, again out of Glasgow International, is July 14.

At present my inclination is to buy a set of the 1:50K maps (there's a 3 for 2 sale until the end of March) because I wouldn't want to damage yours. I'm not familiar with MemoryMap but will Google it.

I've got some prep work to do yet (obtaining some Neos Superlight overboots, and a canvas duffel bag to protect the backpack as checked baggage, for examples) but there's still some time.

Here are some additional tips: When you get to the Glasgow airport, take the bus to the Buchanan Street bus station. Then go to the window and buy a ticket for Milngavie (pronounced mul guy). In Milngavie you will be walking through a fair sized little shopping area which should have some sort of outfitter for fuel. I have had a difficult time finding fuel for my Whisperlite at times.
Your first campsite may well be the farm at Drymen which is about 11 easy miles from the start. The wild camping opportunities are a bit limited until the approach to Conic Hill due to the population density at the start.

You will be arriving at the beginning of Midge season. They are the same little buggers as our New England No-see-ums, but in staggering quantities. They will not bother you in light breezes, nor on really sunny days. Mornings and evenings are their prime attack times. Almost any insect repellant works well against them. Personally I would rather face Midges than our biting black flies.
In wild camping, pitch in non-sheltered locations where you can take advantage of breezes and sunlight. Scotland does have Ticks, but I have never have heard about Lyme disease there. Also, no Giardia in the Highlands. Once you get past the Great Glen vicinity on the CWT I have never treated my water away from civilization.

Rain Gear: On my 300 mile backpack in 09, I carried and wore higher end Patagonia Goretex, and the guy with me took his AT carried Frog Togs. He was soaked through several times, where I stayed dry. Unlike the AT, there are no shelters every 6-8 miles where you can stop and get out of the weather.

There are three really nice Hostels in Fort William: Ft William Backpackers, Chase the Wild Goose, and Bank Street Lodge. I would suggest trying to make a reservation on line.

There are three good outfitters in Ft William, all easy to walk to. Also a really good "walk to" supermarket just near the bus station.

To avoid the posibillity of bed bug problems I always take a Permathrin treated silk sleeping bag liner and use it with either my sleeping bag or the bedclothes provided by the hostel, if any.

Make sure that you stop at the Drover's Inn at Inveranan (north of Loch Lomond). Over 300 years old, and I swear that it hasn't been swept out in all that time. A really interesting establishment. Take a meal there if it fits your day.

As I said in an earlier post, I will continue to send information without using PM unless the others on this site tell me otherwise. This is so the information will be available to others.


The 1:50000 maps are fine, and you won't believe the detail on the Ordnance Survey maps.

TW

 

[Hillwalker]

Video slideshow of the Cape Wrath Route

I hesitate to draw attention to this, my old first try at creating a "MS Movemaker" slide show since the quality is pretty sucky. But if you can get some information from it, here it is.

It is in three 10 minute clips.

http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/579528567ilkaTr

 

[Hillwalker]

Bothy info

Bothies on or near the Cape Wrath Trail​

Name of Bothy Coordinates (OS Maps) Distance from route
Corryhully NM 912 814 On Route I took(note)
A’ Chuil NM 944 924 Beside route Glen Dessary
Sourlies NH 868 950 On Route in Sourlies
Barrisdale (£3 per night) NG 871 048 Very nice, estate owned
Gerry’s Hostel (£15+) NH 038 493 Independent Hostel (note)
Easan Dorcha NH 012 526 Teahouse Bothy(note)
Shenavall NH 066 809 3 K Northeast of route
Knockdampf NH 286 953 Directly on Route
Schoolhouse NH 340 975 Directly on Route

(notes) The Corriehully Bothy is located on the Glen Finnan route about 3.5 km from the Glen Finnan train station. I would recommend this start of the trail rather than the one from Camasnagaul via the ferry from Ft William. Trains and buses run from Ft William very frequently.

We didn’t stay at Gerry’s but I was told that we should have as it is the oldest Independent Hostel in Scotland and he is quite the character.

School house Bothy is very nice, but has no provisions for building a fire.

If you look in the outer shed part of Inchnadampf Bothy you should find some dried peat for building a smoky but ancient heat source in the fireplace(s).

Teahouse Bothy is somewhat off route. Didn’t stay there but was aware of its location.

If you need help plotting the coordinates once you get your maps, let me know and I’ll talk you through it.

Mountain Bothys are positioned more for peak bagging rather than backpacking especially since the CWT is not a nationally recognized trail. It is not waymarked like the National Trails. This is not a formally recognized trail per se. It is a route which utilizes old drove, cart, and highland clan routes through remote and isolated highlands. You are rarely more than two days walk from paved roads but that may well be cross country and not on descernible trails. At one point the "book" called for eleven days of food to be carried although we did not. The most we carried was six days and discovered that no more than four days was needed.

A good description by Cameron McNeish is located here: http://www.capewrathtrail.co.uk/foreward.htm

A remembered note: The path which you must follow heading down into the 900 foot deep Falls of Glomach gorge is barely a foot wide on a very slippery heathery surface that doesn't look like a trail. It is, and it threads just below the rock band below the cliff top in the following picture. We futtered around for several minutes before we convinced ourselves to give it a try thinking that "this can't be the trail". It was. If you expand the picture as much as possible you can see the trail as it traces to the right below the other rock outcrop/cliff. Fun stuff for sure!


http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2820165600063988367uKYXFx

 

[werdigo49]

Wonderful information, Hillwalker! My preparations are progressing slowly but surely.

My local bank confirmed that it can obtain British pounds, for a modest fee. I'm also considering opening a current account at the Bank of Scotland, with the goal of reducing the amount of cash I'll have to carry.

An old army duffel bag turned up, in the camping closet, and it holds my backpack, sleeping pad, and hiking poles very nicely. It makes a great neat and compact checked-baggage item. I'll see if an outdoor shop in Milngavie will stash the empty duffel for me until my return.

(PS: Isn't there a train direct from the airport to Milngavie? I'll bypass downtown Glasgow, at the start of my trip, if I can. At the end, I'll try to get back to Glasgow a couple of days early to roam around yet be sure of making my return flight.)

Your comments about rain gear got me to thinking about my 20-year-old Campmor GoreTex. I was able to pick up an Arc'Teryx jacket, genuine GoreTex (unlike the cheaper gear I'd been considering --- Marmot Precip and the like), at the local REI on a great sale. (The pants were still $350 so I passed on them; if no attractive sale pops up I'll just stick with the old Campmors.) My first piece of Arc'Teryx gear.

Tomorrow I'll order the 1:50K Landranger paper maps and the Memory-Map Northern Scotland CD. When I get them, maybe you can point out where your route diverged from the Hinchcliffe/Brooks "definitive route." Also those bothy coordinates --- I don't understand the OS system yet. Maybe it'll become clear when I actually see the maps.

Did you communicate with your family at home during your walk? My wife has been looking into cell phones that can handle both local (Scotland) and international calls. In general I dislike carrying a cell phone and don't do it, but if it might make her feel less uneasy about my absence I'll do it.

Thank you again for being so generous with your time and knowledge.

 

[Creag Nan Drochaid]

Ordnance Survey grid references

The borders of Ordnance Survey maps have two-digit numbers in the color blue. When giving a grid reference remember to start at the lower left of the map you have and go "right up." In other words, start with the hoizontal axis at the bottom of the map and go right until you reach the square wherein lies the point you wish to describe. Let us say it lies between 52 and 53, about 2/3 of the way towards 53. That means its closest number would be 527.
Next you go from the bottom of the map up the vertical axis until you reach the same point, let us say it lies between 42 and 43 about 1/3 of the way up the square. That yields the number 423.
The grid reference within that map is therefore a six-digit number: 527423.
You went first right then up to get there.
It is also very useful to start your report with the map you are using. If you are in the Galloway Forest Park, you can say that and add the map is Outdoor Leisure # 32, or briefly OL 32. If you are requesting SAR assistance that should be said before the grid reference so the SAR people don't look in an area covered by a different map.
If I have been inaccurate I pray that Hillwalker corrects me.

Creag nan Drochaid

 

[werdigo49]

Thanks, Creag! That's very helpful. I'm looking forward to actually receiving the maps.

 

[erugs]

Have you seen this website about hiking in Scotland? (I found it while looking for information on section hiking the AT in NH.)

http://sectionhiker.com/tgo-challenge/

 

[Hillwalker]

Wonderful information, Hillwalker! My preparations are progressing slowly but surely.

My local bank confirmed that it can obtain British pounds, for a modest fee. I'm also considering opening a current account at the Bank of Scotland, with the goal of reducing the amount of cash I'll have to carry.

An old army duffel bag turned up, in the camping closet, and it holds my backpack, sleeping pad, and hiking poles very nicely. It makes a great neat and compact checked-baggage item. I'll see if an outdoor shop in Milngavie will stash the empty duffel for me until my return.

(PS: Isn't there a train direct from the airport to Milngavie? I'll bypass downtown Glasgow, at the start of my trip, if I can. At the end, I'll try to get back to Glasgow a couple of days early to roam around yet be sure of making my return flight.)

Your comments about rain gear got me to thinking about my 20-year-old Campmor GoreTex. I was able to pick up an Arc'Teryx jacket, genuine GoreTex (unlike the cheaper gear I'd been considering --- Marmot Precip and the like), at the local REI on a great sale. (The pants were still $350 so I passed on them; if no attractive sale pops up I'll just stick with the old Campmors.) My first piece of Arc'Teryx gear.

Tomorrow I'll order the 1:50K Landranger paper maps and the Memory-Map Northern Scotland CD. When I get them, maybe you can point out where your route diverged from the Hinchcliffe/Brooks "definitive route." Also those bothy coordinates --- I don't understand the OS system yet. Maybe it'll become clear when I actually see the maps.

Did you communicate with your family at home during your walk? My wife has been looking into cell phones that can handle both local (Scotland) and international calls. In general I dislike carrying a cell phone and don't do it, but if it might make her feel less uneasy about my absence I'll do it.

Thank you again for being so generous with your time and knowledge.

As far as money goes, I use my debit card from a US bank (USAA). Good exchange rates and no need to carry too much cash.

This time I'm taking a leased cell phone through AAA. Never used one there before, but it would have been nice to contact hostels and stay in contact with home. Never stayed in contact on prior trips....just my way.

Good catch on the duffel bag. That's what I always do.

Milngavie is only 6.5 miles from the Glasgow Airport. No train service - there is a bus from the airpport to the main bus station where you can get a bus to Milngavie (prnounced mul guy).

To get around anywhere in Scotland for schedules and services check out http://www.travelinescotland.com Click on "Plan Your Journey" and follow the prompts.

Once you install the OS CD on your computer, you can use the "find" feature and input the coordinates I gave you and it will take you to the location where you can actually see the little square for the building. Then you can do the same in Google Earth to "in some cases actually see the building itself.

I have most of my planned climbs of such mountains as Slioch and Beinn Eighe already previewed in G Earth and in many cases can even see the footpath. Having almost all the terrain treeless is pretty incredible. It's like having the entire country in an Alpine Zone.

Hey erugs. Good find - On a route like this you can never have too much information -

TW

 

[earlylite]

Walking in Scotland

If you can make it down to Boston next week, I'm giving a talk about my coast-to-coast hike across the highlands last year in the TGO Challenge.

Otherwise, I have quite a lot of information posted on my blog about how to use the OS grid system for GPS navigation, and lots of tips for yanks about walking in scotland. Fantastic place to walk. I'm going back next year to do another coast to coast (170 miles).

I would recommend the OS landranger maps (1:50,000). Be forewarned that they are only available on paper.

Here are a few links:

http://sectionhiker.com/tgo-challenge-prep-stove-gps-mobile/
http://sectionhiker.com/tgo-challenge-tips-for-yanks-and-non-residents/
http://sectionhiker.com/tgo-challenge-trip-report-part-1/
http://sectionhiker.com/tgo-challenge-trip-report-part-2/

You should also buy this book at amazon: Scottish Hill tracks (on the Amazon UK site). It is a must-have that catalogs all of the old hill paths, most hundreds of years old.

Contact me if you have any questions. I know a lot of other walkers in the UK and Scotland who I can put you in touch with for advice or local assistance. Happy to speak on the phone with you too.

Philip Werner

 

[alistair]

You guys are making me home sick ..... I was born and bread in Scotland and moved to US after finishing college.
Unfortunately I did not start climbing until I came to the States, but have always wanted to go home and climb some of the Munros.

If you need anything my parents and sister still live in Kilmarnock (West coast, 30 minutes south of Glasgow).

 

[werdigo49]

Thanks, Philip and alistair! So much information... Great links, Philip. But I'm afraid I won't be able to make your presentation in Boston. (It was nice to see that Chris Townsend commented on your first link; I just bought his Northwest Highlands book, but have enjoyed his Backpacker's Handbook and Advanced Backpacking books for years.)

The Landranger 1:50K maps and MemoryMap CD are on their way. Unfortunately I placed the paper map order before discovering that the CD was available from the same source, so they were two separate orders with two shipping charges. Ah well, live and learn!

My stove is a MSR Pocket Rocket, which screws onto a propane canister. My hope is to find such a canister in Milngavie, but if that's not likely surely one of the shops in Glasgow carries them.

 

[Creag Nan Drochaid]

propane canister in Glasgow

The Scottish EMS is Tiso's: www.tiso.com. Their Glasgow store is on Buchanan Street 15 minutes' walk from the bus station. 5 floors of gear, and I am sure they have canisters.
Creag nan drochaid

 

[earlylite]

Canisters

In Europe and the UK, canisters can have a bayonet style or screw-in style attachment to a stove. If you call Tiso, make sure you ask which they have. I've seen adapter kits, so you can use either interchangeably, but don't know how well they work.

Philip