Sharing your water - survival, comfort, or ethical question ?

[Quietman]

I haven't had a situation where someone needed water, but I did give a spare headlamp to a couple who was obviously not going to make it to the trail head before dark. They were grateful, and it made me feel good.

 

[erugs]

That’s an easy one.

Generally speaking, if someone else is in need, I'll help if possible.
Personal responsibility and human compassion are not mutually exclusive.

That's my feeling, too. Twice, at least, I've given water away, the last time the bottle went with it. We were hiking Killington and heading down and met a guy coming up with a small pack. We talked awhile and after quite a bit of time a woman came along. She was really annoyed at the guy for leaving her so far behind and was really thirsty. She was not carrying a pack. We gave her a full bottle of water and felt that was the right thing to do, as the guy she was hiking with had little and couldn't be counted on from our perspective.

The other time was with the promise of a cold beer when the husband/father arrived back from a three mile trek to get their car at the other trailhead. They had been out of water for a while and even though I was out of water after sharing, I knew that we were all near the end of the trail.

 

[Tom Rankin]

I had a couple of young hikers come up to me on a summit a couple of weeks ago. They saw my water bottle out after giving water to Bookah.

I would probably give them some water as well. However ...

I don't recall the specific situation, but Pete Fish (when a Ranger) told me he sometimes asked people in need why he should help them. He did help them, but he got them thinking too! Maybe this approach teaches people to be more self-reliant the next time out.

 

[sierra]

A twist

In my opinion we all have the responsibilty to help anyone who is in distress if at all possible, but I agree with others that if it means putting yourself in grave danger its a judgement call, there is some personal responsibility issues that cannot be ignored. Years ago, I found myself in a different yet similiar situation. I ran into a group of hikers who where tending to an injured member of thier party. A rescue was on the way but it was going to take time, they had very inadequate clothing and they had bundled up the injured hiker with all they had, he was borderline to go into shock and they asked me if I could "spare" a coat. In was winter, I was soloing and my coat was a 300 dollar Patagonia jacket. I was not going to stay with them as the rescuers where coming and it was pretty bad out, I still had to descend quite a ways. Those who know me either from this board or in life know, that when I solo I leave no plans of my hikes with anyone that leaves my margins for error thin. I was travelling light that day, that coat was vital to my survival if I was to have a mishap, I declined to give it up, stating " that I had no xtra clothes " I stand by my decision. Would I have liked to give them something? yes, could I ? no. They chose to go unprepared, I hope they didnt pay dearly.

 

[Jay H]

I would give water, I always carry way more than I drink anyway...

Speaking of water, as I was walking down a road where I live after descending off the Taconic Crest Trail, was about 300ft from my house and a guy in a company minivan pulls up behind me and beeps.. As I stop to look out, he tosses me a 20oz bottle of spring water... Out of the complete blue.. I thank him and look at the side of his van which is silk screened with the spring water company so I presume this was a guy just promoting water... He took off and I kind of wondered.

Maybe he read this NY times article and thought I needed water.. (which is even more freaky that I forgot my water bottle but I knew it was a short hike) and I drank a bit from a very full moving stream along the way.

Jay

 

[Snowflea]

I would share my water if someone else needed some.

But, unlike drier areas (e.g. the Southwest), in most of New England you're never really very far from a water source...

 

[una_dogger]

There's an expression - "Pay ahead". Although I don't think that thought enters the head of most people who instinctively offer assistance.

I love the Pay it Forward/Pay it Ahead concept and I've shared water before many times, but I don't think I would risk my own safety to do so. Like StinkyFeet points out, its not a big issue here in the NE..I hope its not a decision I ever have to make.

 

[Craig]

I'm no expert on the effects of heat exhaustion on cognitive thinking, but
it would be interesting to know why he wanted to continue up when it would have been less taxing to go down and cool water awaited him at the bottom.

 

[DougPaul]

I'm no expert on the effects of heat exhaustion on cognitive thinking, but
it would be interesting to know why he wanted to continue up when it would have been less taxing to go down and cool water awaited him at the bottom.

Of course, if he went down he would still have to go back up again to get out of the canyon. Options are limited in that part of the canyon...

People often make decisions for reasons that seem foolish in retrospect. For instance, he might have tickets to something or plans to meet someone at a specified time. Or maybe he had rim fever--the rim does represent safety...

Doug

 

[Craig]

Oops, I can see now the originally linked article doesn't give enough information.

http://www.nps.gov/grca/parknews/2011-08-29_distressed-hiker.htm

The reporting party, a pair of backpackers, told the ranger they ran into a hiker on the Tanner Trail on Friday, August 26, who appeared to be exhausted and had abandoned his pack further down the trail. The pair, who were also feeling heat-stressed, provided the hiker with additional water and told him they didn't think he could make it out. They urged him to go with them down to the river. He refused, saying he wanted to continue up the trail. On their way to the river, the pair passed the man's abandoned pack.
On Saturday as the pair began their return journey, they again passed the abandoned pack, took note of the permit information, and looked for the distressed hiker as they continued to their next campsite. They were carrying an extra gallon of water in case they ran into him again.
On Sunday, they finished their backpacking trip without again seeing the distressed hiker. Concerned for his welfare, the pair reported their encounter with the hiker as soon as they returned to the rim.

I suspect heat exhaustion was the cause of his irrational decisions.

 

[JNewell]

We've actually given clothes, not just water, to people whose poor planning placed them at risk or even just severe inconvenience...

Hmm ... that's a rather extreme stance. I don't think you'll be getting lots of PM's in the near future requesting you join a hike!

My reaction to the situation is like so many others - if there's any way I could help, I will. I've given water and other aid to people in the past, and am sure I will in the future.

TEO's position, unfortunately, is not unusual - A couple of years ago, I was standing in a cold, driving rain, flagging down cars and requesting assistance for a passenger in a spectacular rollover accident who, though ambulatory, was becoming hypothermic. All the person needed was a ride to a visitor center - no other help needed. At least 30 drivers flatly refused - and then suddenly, two vehicles stopped, and helped without any urging at all.

 

[JNewell]

I was never good at math...

Yes.

It's a proportion, a balance, a scale. Expending your resources (as you assess the [now] dead guy needs them) vs. risk to you.

All your resources at no risk to you, sure, the (now) dead guy gets it all. Time, effort, water, electrolytes, argument & persuasion, forceful physical intervention; he gets everything you've got.

At 10% risk to you, yeah, all.

Approaching 20%, you keep some reserves.

When your own risk (at unlimited support for the dead guy) gets much above 20%, you start significantly rationing your resources.

At the point your own risk approaches 50% you start rationalizing that you've given enough already. Anything above 50%, it's a slam dunk; you've done enough; he's on his own

 

[Will]

I was never good at math...

I know, that's what everybody says, with a smile like this guy is off the rails.

I don't know how people live their lives without continually calculating odds. Not to mention work! It's something I regard as natural as breathing and it has become so automatic I always know what the likely consequences are of just about every action I choose to take, yet I've known maybe a dozen people in my life who understand. It's a blind spot I guess.

There's no magic or guarantee, it's just likelihoods, and long odds frequently pay off or bite you. But without this kind of approach life must be a continual series of surprises, usually unpleasant, I would think.

 

[Elizabeth]

Like many people on this site, I always try to carry at least one more bottle of water than I really think I'll need and more warm clothing than I think I'll need as well. Partly it is for myself, as a margin of error; but it is also so I won't be stuck with the me-or-them dilemma in case I need to help another hiker. I am probably smaller than at least 90% of the other hikers out there; but in winter I carry an old, stained, patched, extra-large men's down jacket. I figure it would fit over all of my other clothes if I needed it, and I could give it away without feeling too bad about it if I came across someone else who needed it more.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

We've actually given clothes, not just water, to people whose poor planning placed them at risk or even just severe inconvenience...

Yes, I have also. I particularly remember giving a woman a pair of gloves on a late fall day on the summit cone of Washington. She had hiked up with her daughter, and totally misjudged how cold it would be on the upper 2/3's of the mountain. She was having a very hard time getting down, holding onto snowy boulders without gloves ...

The Universe gives back though. A few weeks ago I found a dynamite pair of fingerless climber's gloves. Made of pigskin, double palms, nearly new ...

 

[erugs]

The Universe gives back though. A few weeks ago I found a dynamite pair of fingerless climber's gloves. Made of pigskin, double palms, nearly new ...

The world does seem to give back. Even if it didn't ever do so, it's a good theory and creates good feelings. Brian and I volunteered for an organization in July and have gotten so much more back than we could ever have imagined that it makes us want to do more. I found a headlamp at Yosemite below the cables just when I needed an extra as the one I had recently purchased fell apart.

Another joy is being in the right place at the right time. My earliest experience with that was riding my bike down a back country road and seeing an "elderly" woman walking along and crying. She had locked herself out of her home and was walking a distance to a neighbor. I went back with her and found my knife blade could lift the hook and eye latch that had caused the problem.

 

[MadRiver]

Timing is everything. I met a father and daughter at the Franconia Falls bridge who had just finished a three day backpacking trip. They came over from the East Side Trail not knowing they could have stayed on that trail to reach the Lincoln Woods parking lot. During our conversation the father asked what time the shuttle stopped at Lincoln Woods and when I said it didn’t the daughter almost starting crying. It turns out their car was parked at the Mt. Clinton Road parking lot and they thought they could simply take the shuttle back to the Highland Center.

Since I only live 20 minutes south of Lincoln and had nothing pressing to do I offered them a ride back to their car. I just wonder what would have happened if they stayed on the East Side Trail to begin with. I would like to think that another hiker would have offered them a ride as well. Always pay it forward!

 

[JNewell]

I agree, and I'm pretty sure that most thinking people (which I also think is significantly less than a majority of the population ) does continually calculate odds, but in these circumstances I'd be darned if I thought I could reliably and reasonably distinguish between 10% and 20%.

I know, that's what everybody says, with a smile like this guy is off the rails.

I don't know how people live their lives without continually calculating odds. Not to mention work! It's something I regard as natural as breathing and it has become so automatic I always know what the likely consequences are of just about every action I choose to take, yet I've known maybe a dozen people in my life who understand. It's a blind spot I guess.

There's no magic or guarantee, it's just likelihoods, and long odds frequently pay off or bite you. But without this kind of approach life must be a continual series of surprises, usually unpleasant, I would think.

 

[Raven]

I would like to think that another hiker would have offered them a ride as well. Always pay it forward!

Sure we would have!

Positivity spreads and grows just like negativity.

"Pay if forward"

"spread good Karma"

"Perform random acts of kindness"

"It is through giving in which we receive."

Etc.

I have had so many strangers give me random help on hikes and backpacking trips that I'm still playing catch up for all that kindness. Someone turned their truck around to offer me a ride on a rainy road walk after the Wildcats this summer - I actually wasn't hitching for a change...just a nice couple.