Sites similar to VFTT

[ChrisB]

Hey Tim,

You and the other mods do a wonderful job and deserve our thanks. THANKS!!

Idea: On Trip Reports and Trail Condx: Somehow encourage viewers to post as a service to their fellows trampers.

As a new VFTT user the candy that drew me into the site was often Trip Reports and Trail Conditions. Being nosy I wanted to see who was hiking where and with whom. Trip Reports was how I kept track. Being cautious in Winter I never went out without checking Trail Condx to see if anyone had done my planned route and what they might have encountered. These days there is not a lot of activity on these pages.

I'll start posting to them again. (By the by: What were the condx you encountered on Ammo the other day? And did you solo or go with a group?

 

[peakbagger]

Rocket 21 (A VFTT) member blew away the VFTT trail conditions with his site, as his is a lot easier to use. No need to copy and paste. I do on occasion post the longer trail reports but think I am one of the rare folks who do.

I do agree with Chris that long ago VFTT was the place for posting winter trail conditions in the whites . The peak was definitely the months after the January 1998 ice storm. It got to the point where the USFS after months of promising, adopted VFTT as the "unofficial official" place to post USFS trail conditions as their crews got out in the field. Given how badly the woods were trashed it wasn't optional, many trails were totally impassable. Of course there were less of us winter hikers out there so the chances of finding a unbroken trail was higher. My guess is these days within 24 hours of storm every 4k trail is broken out. Thus the most important info on the trail report is if the parking lot is plowed. Almost guaranteed, the trails will be chopped up with postholes and more under equipped folks will be out and about.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

There are many reasons why the strengths of VFTT became its weakness.

- It attracted hardcore people which gave it a reputation of non-inclusion
- It spawned Trail Conditions which has been replaced by many other much-easier-to-use sites like newenglandtrailconditions.com and trailsnh.com
- It promoted Trip Reports which was a big draw for years, especially for pictures, which social media completely obliterated with its popularity and ease of use
- Trips and Events was a great way to meet new people but ultimately folks would build a cabal of compatible hikers and then organize private trips. There are a few posters that continued to use Trips and Events (BIGEarl comes to mind) for a long time.
- Q & A has also moved largely to sites such as Facebook. It could be daunting to post here because of the first bullet.

So, not only is the technology moving past vBulletin at light speed, the not-for-profit model means nobody is working full-time to promote and grow the site. If someone out there has a good plan to promote it and grow it, I am still open to handing it over or at least forming a partnership. Otherwise, it is not a lot of time for us to keep it running, as long as the membership makes the requested donations every few years.

I belong to half a dozen private groups of hikers - everyone has their circle(s) (including me) and many overlap.

Tim

 

[peakbagger]

The other technology that VFTT does not use thankfully is instant notifications when someone replies to a thread. That tends to accelerate the illusion of activity on a thread and generally the "cocaine" of social media. I want access to media when I want it, not when it wants me. I think many media users want that constant stream of notifications and standard addiction theory is folks get conditioned to want that feedback faster and faster to get the same buzz.

 

[Rhody Seth]

I've been a member of my share of message boards over the years. The longest being one centered around the band Phish which I've been a member of for almost twenty years. I still visit that site daily. Much like this board, that one is much quieter than it was back in the early aughts when the posts and threads came hot and heavy. We're now old friends and while we still communicate every day through that site, new members are few and far between. It's become more of a hangout spot rather than a means to obsess over the band and their music.

I don't thinks message boards are quite extinct yet. There's plenty of them still going strong based on the topic and members. But I agree that Facebook has definitely carved out a large chunk users who might otherwise find their way to a board like this one. The convenience of joining a group where on an app you use regularly probably appeals to a lot of people more than these traditional message boards which require new logins and new websites to visit.

Everything's eventual, even sites on the internet.

 

[Mike P.]

I prefer being here as a user and contributor as opposed to being on Facebook and being their product. As others said, its nice not to be pinged when someone comments on a thread I have posted on or started. I can certainly start promoting in BSA circles that have been taking up my time. Hachi, if I was part of the group that gave you grief, I'll apologize now and check later.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

You all know you can shut off Facebook notifications to your phone, right? And likewise you can subscribe to threads her and receive email notifications on your phone for updates,m if you'd like...

And no, they are not extinct yet, but they are probably below critical mass.

Tim

 

[DayTrip]

As a new user, I think this site is one of the best around. Quite a wealth of information, and more active than others I have found. As far as posting though, to be honest, it can be quite intimidating. I acheived a personal best in my first post in which I was called ignorant, stupid and insane. For what it's worth, I was a bit ignorant about the particular subject, and did learn quite a lot through that thread. I continue to read, but I don't post much.

As a relative newbie to this forum (around 2013 or 2014 I believe) my advice to you is to ask all the stupid questions you can think of and never concern yourself with your perceived status with the members. I literally knew no one on this site when I was added and still to this day don't believe I have met anyone here. I knew next to nothing about "serious" hiking and asked tons of questions that were an obvious indication of how little I knew about pretty much anything.

I got my share of snide comments and eyerolling but I also received TONS of outstanding advice, gear recommendations and locations to check out for hiking, backpacking and even every day life issues. The knowledge base on this forum is vast and comprehensive. Their seems to be an expert in virtually any subject matter you can think of. It has had a tremendous positive impact on my hiking. There are many people here who will give you extremely detailed answers to your questions, message you privately, etc. I wouldn't waste too much time worrying about how you are perceived here. If you ask specific questions that demonstrate you've put the basic information into your question beyond the lazy Facebook style stuff (i.e. how long is the Zealand Trail?) you will benefit greatly from it, even if we all think you're a jack ass.

 

[Mike P.]

I prefer being here as a user and contributor as opposed to being on Facebook and being their product. As others said, its nice not to be pinged when someone comments on a thread I have posted on or started. I can certainly start promoting in BSA circles that have been taking up my time. Hachi, if I was part of the group that gave you grief, I'll apologize now and check later.

 

[DayTrip]

The other technology that VFTT does not use thankfully is instant notifications when someone replies to a thread. That tends to accelerate the illusion of activity on a thread and generally the "cocaine" of social media. I want access to media when I want it, not when it wants me. I think many media users want that constant stream of notifications and standard addiction theory is folks get conditioned to want that feedback faster and faster to get the same buzz.

I agree with that completely but that also has the advantage of providing near real time information because of the large base of users who can't wait to answer questions and be useful/achieve recognition as the "first responder". That was one of the few regrets I had about leaving the Facebook forums. You could ask a question like "Is the 19MB lot plowed yet" and have answers in minutes, maybe even seconds, from somebody who lives near there, just drove by, etc. Or maybe you're buying a stove online and want some quick feedback before pulling the trigger. That was a real benefit.

 

[Mike P.]

I agree with that completely but that also has the advantage of providing near real time information because of the large base of users who can't wait to answer questions and be useful/achieve recognition as the "first responder". That was one of the few regrets I had about leaving the Facebook forums. You could ask a question like "Is the 19MB lot plowed yet" and have answers in minutes, maybe even seconds, from somebody who lives near there, just drove by, etc. Or maybe you're buying a stove online and want some quick feedback before pulling the trigger. That was a real benefit.

I understand that, I guess it depends on the question. I know that early on, my questions were more on length of trips and difficulty. When VFTT was the trail site, you wanted to get to know the trip poster. (Even now, Chris covers as much mileage in a day as some might backpacking in three or four days, others have Slow in their name) The other thing if you are visiting the whole region, Cats, ADK, Whites, ME, MA, VT, CT and RI, trail descriptions in books vary. Generally, IMO, other then trips up headwalls in NH, I am more leery of an ADK guide book that says a trail is very steep over a WMG trail description of a very steep trail. My fear in FB would be I don't know the messenger.

I didn't have very many critical gear questions, I knew how my body temp is, how I sweat, why the pit zips on a vest work best for me, what boots fit my feet. (I also like touching gear so I wouldn't buy boots online & I have a lifetime worth of tees and fleece, I'll more if really marked down. At this point I'm browsing bargain racks at Bean or the basement at Ragged for the second pair of lined pants or a reversible vest with four pockets instead of two.

It may soon be time to start looking at another Gore-Tex shell. (Then again, I may have done my last 12+ mile hike on a day when it's going to rain hard all day, those pictures all look the same. Only the names of the peaks and the trail signs are different on bad days)

 

[DayTrip]

I My fear in FB would be I don't know the messenger.

Definitely true. But like VFTT and other forums you quickly learn who is knowledgeable and can be trusted with questions.

 

[iAmKrzys]

I am one of (few?) people who did not have a sponsor. I came across VFTT when googling for information on Kate Matrosova. One thing that struck me from the beginning was the quality of posts - instead of bashing that permeated other sites I felt that VFTT members genuinely tried to understand what really happened / went wrong.

I think depth of the conversations that take place here is what sets this board apart from other sites, including Facebook.

I am using Facebook for a number of interests and I think it is possible to get great information there too, however, the typical FB flow is not really conductive to in-depth discussions and good posts eventually tend to sink in the flood of pictures and comments that could very well be computer-generated and few would notice.

Btw, before I logged in I checked that on login page it says that you have to be registered but if you follow the registration link you get the message:

vBulletin Message
Sorry, registration has been disabled by the administrator. New members must be sponsored by existing site members. Please read this page for more information.

You really have to go to the FAQ: https://www.vftt.org/forums/faq.php to find out it's possible to become a member without a sponsor but the wording is not too inviting and I guess it works to the extent that only determined users request VFTT membership.

 

[DayTrip]

I am one of (few?) people who did not have a sponsor. .

I had no sponsor either and like you stumbled across the forum Googling for something. I agree with you that the sponsorship requirement is somewhat daunting to outsiders, especially after seeing the depths of the thread discussions. After debating a bit I finally decided to ask for membership anyway and made somewhat of a "sales pitch" for why my situation may add value to the group and what a benefit it would be for me at my stage of hiking knowledge to ask questions on the forum. Apparently Tim was off that day hiking, fishing, skiing or biking and my submission squeaked through under a pile of paperwork.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

When you come to vftt.org and you are not signed in, you should see a few announcements (I just confirmed). The first of which reads

First time or Unregistered Users
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. Want to be a registered member? See the FAQ for instructions. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. Be sure to read the Terms of Service before using VFTT.org.

The other message is built into the software and is displayed when automatic registrations are disabled. If I enabled them, then Dave, Alan and I would spend a lot of time disapproving the spam/bots/scams/porn posts. We know this because the lost+found and trail conditions would be full of that crap. It's rare these days given the captcha and the current hosting company, which provides far superior protection against that kind of stuff.

I feel that if you are determined to post, you can easily find yourself an account. Just adding usernames doesn't do anything for improving the content. I get dozens of membership requests or password reset requests per month that, when I ask for username information, go completely unanswered. They are bots crawling the site and touching every link, including the one(s) with my email address.

Tim

 

[peakbagger]

I have sponsored a few folks over the years, some I ran into on hikes and usually it was someone that claimed to really want to get on the board but needed a sponsor and had been looking for awhile. I also have been contacted on others sites I visit like White Blaze by someone who saw my reference to VFTT. I rarely if ever see folks I sponsored post if at all.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I rarely if ever see folks I sponsored post if at all.

And likewise, I don't see (m)any new posts from anyone I've added. They want to bookmark their last search for browsing/reading most likely, but again, those users aren't contributors.

Tim

 

[maineguy]

I had no sponsor either and like you stumbled across the forum Googling for something. I agree with you that the sponsorship requirement is somewhat daunting to outsiders, especially after seeing the depths of the thread discussions. After debating a bit I finally decided to ask for membership anyway and made somewhat of a "sales pitch" for why my situation may add value to the group and what a benefit it would be for me at my stage of hiking knowledge to ask questions on the forum. Apparently Tim was off that day hiking, fishing, skiing or biking and my submission squeaked through under a pile of paperwork.

Remember when you needed a sponsor to join the AMC?

 

[jfb]

Remember when you needed a sponsor to join the AMC?

In 1974, I needed two sponsors.

 

[peakbagger]

There reportedly is some dark history on the AMC sponsorship requirement that AMC regrets and tried to make amends long ago and continues to do. Like any social organization pre 1960s membership sponsorships were intended to make sure that the new members met the unwritten standards of the club and the keep the "riff raff" out. AMC of the past was a social organization of predominately privileged white anglo saxon protestant Boston educated members, having a sponsorship requirement was a way of enforcing the clubs makeup. This was not exclusive to AMC it was just the reality in US prior to the sixties. I think the AMC NH chapter members tended to enjoy their outlaw status of including the "riff raff" years ago. Gene Daniels, a proud NH Chapter member mentions the AMC 4K committee sending automatic sponsorships to every successful applicant in his essay in the WMG 100 edition book and remember getting my sponsorship along with my certificate. (Incidentally if you haven't read the essays in that book they are very interesting view into the history of the AMC in the whites, worth finding a copy)

Over the years in the north country I ran into several older folks who commented that they wanted to work at the AMC huts when young but those jobs inevitably went to college kids with connections in the club. At least a couple folks mentioned that they could work as "the help" in the kitchens at Pinkham or the housekeepers at Joe Dodge doing the dirty work for many seasons but it was rare for a local to work their way up into public position, those were normally staffed by the Boston crowd as a stepping stone up into the organization.