Skis for a non-skier?

[HikerBob]

OK - try not to laugh too much OK?

I am considering skis as a way of expediting getting in and out on trails like the Wilderness and Livermore Road, plus closed road access routes.

Now, I have never skied in my life and with my fused spine am not about to embark on a downhill racing career. I just need something that will get me in and out a little faster, with a little less effort.

I looked at the Karhu Meta at the end of last season and even bought a pair. They looked like they would be a good crossover between snowshoe and ski and had the bonus of a binding that would take a mountaineering boot. Unfortunately, although well engineered, the binding did not give enough adjustment to clamp comfortably on my boots. I sent them back without ever trying them.

I am now leaning more towards something like
this with maybe a binding like this that say they will take a mountaineering boot.

Comments, suggestions?

Like I said, my back problems mean I'll never risk anything more than a sedate glide in/out.

One last question. Where are the brakes??? Seriously, in the context of say running out the Wilderness trail, how does one regulate speed?

I did ask you not to laugh

Bob

 

[Halite]

The gear you are considering--especially the bindings--will not allow you really to move any faster than with a pair of snowshoes on flat or uphill trails. That's even more true if the trail is unbroken. The AT style binding allows you to shuffle along, but not really get a kick and glide. Until you are comfortable with the skis, they are likely to get in the way more than help.

The real benefit would be on a downhill. But for anyone inexperienced with skiing and uncomfortable with speed, even a slight downhill will be petrifyingly scary. You have to be really comfortable with slipping and sliding if you plan to strap on a pair of skis. Before you buy the gear, you may want to take a beginner cross country ski lesson at a touring center to see if you are comfortable with that means of locomotion.

As for your question about "Where are the brakes," I admit I had to laugh. But only because it made me remember my experience first learning to ski. Generally, you regulate speed by turning the skis across the fall line of the hill--i.e., not pointing straight down. But as a beginning skier, that was the last thing I was thinking about doing as I picked up speed! On a wide ski hill, there are a lot of ways to turn the skis across the fall line. If you are on a narrow trail, the most common way to slow down is to do a snow plow, which means pointing the tips of the skis toward each other and spreading the backs of the skis apart. How wide you spread the wedge formed by the skis and how hard you press determines how much you reduce your speed. Unless you can comfortably execute a basic snow plow, you're left with dragging your poles or doing a butt plant to slow down. Sketchy at best.

I apologize if this post seems too negative. Skiing could be a good option, but you will need to invest some time in learning before you will be able to achieve the benefits you seek.

 

[HikerBob]

Halite - thank you for your insight.

I am not embarrassed to admit my complete ignorance here. Ignorance can be overcome by learning, stupidity on the other hand...

Your suggestion to take a XC ski lesson sounds like a good plan and one I'll follow up as soon as possible and certainly before laying out on any gear.

So, there will be nothing to fear on the trails too soon in the winter season. Later on... I'll be sure to wear lots of bright red clothing so folk can see me coming

Bob:

 

[trailbiscuit]

I would second the lesson idea. Nothing helps more than being comfortable on skis. Hey, you might even like it!

The real problems is boots. There's nothing out there that is the perfect combo of ski boot and hiking boot. I can't think of a binding that will accomodate mountaineering boots, and let you kick and glide. With big boots, you might as well be snowshoeing, i.e. plodding.

The Scarpa T4 with a Voile 3-Pin and a stable touring ski you might have a good set up. (I haven't tried the T4's but they look like a good mix of plastic and hiking boot.)

All in all, if I get another XC convert out of it...I'm happy.

 

[Seeker]

A Plug for the Ski Com XC Workshop

I agree, you'll be a lot happier using skis to get around once you are comfortable on them.

You may want to consider the Novice XC Ski course run by the AMC Ski Com (in the interest of full disclosure--I'm the chair). It's a good course and inexpensive too! It runs Jan 8 or 9. For info, go to:

www.amcboston.org/ski/index.html

Look under Workshops.

BTW, you may recognize the Web master's name.

 

[snowshoe]

I will agree with the ski lessons. If you live in the NY/NJ area you can get lessons at the High Point Ski center in High Point SP. You will skiing over the snowshoeing. You dont need as much snow to be able to ski plus it is a great way to get outdoors after work when you dont have the time. I can cover 6+ miles in hour afte work where as snowshoes it would take me 2-3 hours. Good luck and hope the winter is snowy.

 

[dave.m]

I am considering skis as a way of expediting getting in and out on trails like the Wilderness and Livermore Road, plus closed road access routes.
(snip...)
Like I said, my back problems mean I'll never risk anything more than a sedate glide in/out.
(snip...)

Independant of your back injury, how athletic are you and have you ever ice skated or roller skated?

My first inclination, like others have mentioned, is to suggest xc lessons. However, most nordic centers start people out on gear suited for track skiing and lacking much in the way of control. This lack of control, may increase your anxiety relative to your back.

I don't mean to toss water on things, but any time you are on skis, you are slippery planks and falling just comes with the territory. After years and years of teaching alpine skiing, I've seen countless cases where fear and unfamiliarity with sliding were the major roadblocks to learning to ski. And depending on your back condition, your fear may be well placed.

I'm actually going to go against my general advice of pushing xc lessons and suggest that you start out by getting some really good beginner downhill lessons so that you get some familiarity with sliding on snow with the most control possible. NOTE: the quality of beginning lessons varies a lot from area to area and is very closely tied the quality of the learning terrain at the ski area. Once you get the basics of the snowplow (wedge) and the wedge turn, you can try xc skiing.

Now, I love (repeat, love) nordic skiing. So much, that my personal web page is devoted to it. But for your described usage, AT gear may, in fact, be what you are looking for. It will be slower than xc gear but faster than snowshoes. If you are really going to be carrying packs, it will be more stable than some (not all) nordic gear. The big benifit is being able to use your mountaineering boots and not having to lug 2 pairs of boots.

If all you are doing is using the skis for flat approaches with a pack, you might mount the AT skis on straightish nordic ski that has grippy no-wax base. One such class of skis is the Karhu Catamount type of ski. More info on this type of ski here:
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/bc-skis.html#SNOWSHOES

As I note in my essay, author Andy Dappen uses this type of ski with AT gear out west with good effect as do others.

You might be able to find AT bindings suitable for use with mountaineering boots for less if you look used. Silveretta and Ramer are the brands I'm familiar with that work with welted boots. E-bay is your friend. The folks at IME in N. Conway may have something on consignment.

Here is an article by Lou Dawson on the approach task for mountaineering.
http://www.wildsnow.com/articles/skis_for_access/skis_climbing_access.html

Hope this helps,

 

[TCD]

Hey HikerBob, I agree with some of the other posters, it's smart to get some ski knowledge in a non threatening environment before venturing into the backcountry on unfamiliar equipment.

Here are a few other bits:

I second the statement that unless you are fairly proficient on skis, level trails and uphill trails are always faster on snowshoes. There's a fairly common fantasy that skiers go so much faster than snowshoers, but it generally doesn't prove out.

Someone mentioned before going downhill, to learn the snowplow (or "wedge" in the modern terminology). Be encourgaed; it's really easy, and if you learn to do it well, with your weight centered and the skis edged, you can get down almost anything. I love to tele, but fancy tele turns are not needed just to get down.

Footwear and Bindings:

Unfortunately, there's no really good compromise. I travel backcountry in Scarpa T2, and occasionally T1 (if the focus is mostly on downhill sking and making those fancy turns).

But they aren't great as hiking boots. Passable for ice cliimbing, but not great either. If you really want to wear warm, comfortable boots, and you are not concerned about being a great skier, consider the Berwin Binding (available on line; a search will bring up some information and a couple retail sites).

The Berwin is a plastic frame type binding that will "attach" just about any boot to a ski (Sorels, Hiking Boots, Mountaineering boots). You won't have great edge control or sensitivity, but you can wear the boots you want to wear.

For what you are talking about the Silveretta AT bindings would not be helpful. They are intended for climbing steep sustained slopes, and then locking the heels down to be able to ski in alpine mode on long descents. Very specialized equipment, only really good for that application.

Have fun out there! Let's hope for a good Winter.

TCD

 

[JimB]

Bob, I don't want to start a whole binding/system debate but you might look at a NNNBC system with a good quality backcountry boot. Combined with a wide, metal edged backcountry ski and skins you could make pretty good time on gradual trails and access roads. You can even leave the skins on for the descents making them a little more sane. Since you have no downhill experience why get expensive, psuedo/downhill gear? I have all kinds of gear(like most avid skiers) and I have a lot of fun trekking around on such a setup. A pair of good quality BC boots(Karhu, Alpina for example) can be used for almost all of your winter hiking and will fit snowshoes also.

 

[snowshoe]

I have to agree with JimB. the NNNBC bindings with a good backcountry boot is all you need. That will get through most terrain, especially with a full metal edge backcountry XC ski. I would recomend you read Daves Backcountry ski site. It is very helpful and gives you an idea of all the types of skies and their uses. This may help you decide on what type of ski you are looking for.

As for going with downhill lessons I dont know if I would agree with that at first. I would practice on the flats with a non edge ski first. This will help you learn the snowplow and doing short hills without that metal edge. Once you learn the technique without metal edges it will make skiing with the metal edges easier when you make the switch. If you learn downhill on downhill skis I think this may make XC skiing harder because you are dealing with a very different ski, downhill are much easier to turn and stop with due to being much stiffer. If you want to get out before the snow hits try roller skiing, this may be harder than the XC skiing but if you can learn the roller ski, regular XC skiing will be cake. Your best bet is to see what you are going to be most comfortable with.

 

[Mohamed Ellozy]

Why ski?

Bob,

I have been skiing XC for over ten years, and still am lousy at it. So on both of my trips to Baxter I walked while the others skied. If you are good at walking, but not good at skiing, guess which is faster

 

[HikerBob]

Thank you all for your input, I will bear it all in mind when the time comes to decide. I think some kind of beginners class would be very worthwhile just to see if I can manage the darn things at all.

My needs would be limited to getting in and back on the likes of the Livermore Road and hoping to achieve a little extra speed.

I will most definitely NOT be skiing the Tripyramid North Slide! I will however try to get up there to watch and photograph those who do

Mohamed - I hear you there!

Bob

 

[paul ron]

ski-doo. Your spine will apreciate it.

 

[Blue]

Hikerbob,

if you have ever skated, you will have an advantage with stopping... if not.. do you know how to fall well? It may seem silly,
but learning to fall well is very important to avoid injury. I fall all the time -- skiing, playing ice hockey, etc and I'm not usually nervous about getting injured because I know how to fall.

I agree with other posters -- go to Wachusett or a small local place and get out on the bunny hill. You will feel more confident on the shorter, wider rental skis and slower move toward skis that others are describing... who knows, you might catch the bug and wish to ski more and more.

-Blue

 

[dave.m]

Bob, I don't want to start a whole binding/system debate but you might look at a NNNBC system with a good quality backcountry boot.

System bindings are great but Bob was asking specifically for suggestions for an approach set up. With NNN-BC, SNS-BC or pins, Bob would need to ski in one pair of boots and carry and change into a second pair of hiking boots.

For stiff soled hiking boots with rands, AT bindings like the Silveretta 500 will work, albiet expensively.

Another option might be the Statugi binding. See: http://www.pikamtn.com/7wintergear.html

Bob, if you hike in soft soled Sorels, you might also look at the Berwin Binding. I would not suggest using them with stiff soled boots though. See:
http://tinyurl.com/4kbqv

 

[HikerBob]

Blue - I have Ice-skated maybe twice in my life (it's not big in the UK) and found the experience somewhat interesting. I know how to fall, it's the landings that sometimes catch me off guard

When I was (much) younger I did rollerskate a lot, all outside on roads, sidewalks and suchlike. Got pretty good at drifting through turns on the loose stuff and collision avoidance with pedestrians, dogs and cars

As far as boots and bindings go, I would hope to be able to use a binding that will take a winter hiking boot. The combination might be sub-optimal for proper skiing, but my goal is to get in and out not carve turns.

You can be sure my foray into this new realm will be well documented so look out for some interesting trip reports in the new year

Thanks again to everyone for the feedback.

Bob

 

[JimB]

I don't know how to use the quote feature but I have hiked/climbed in my Alpina 600 BC ski boots for at least 6 years. They are identical to the ones on the web page that Bob posted as a link. They are the only boots I use for all of my winter activities and they fit my skis, snowshoes and crampons besides keeping my feet warm and dry. They are a good boot and that is why I recommend them and the system binding to anyone who just wants to trek around in the winter. In my experience they work quite well.

 

[dave.m]

I don't know how to use the quote feature but I have hiked/climbed in my Alpina 600 BC ski boots for at least 6 years.
(snip...)
In my experience they work quite well.

You're not alone in this assessment and I shouldn't have written this option off in my suggestions. I was leafing through Backcountry's review of touring gear from last year and rediscovered an article by Vermonter Jan Reynolds about a recent trip to the himalayas on, get this..., skate gear. They used overboots and strap on crampons for the climbing bits. Years ago, author Steve Barnett reported similarly good experiences with his Solomon Greenland boots (now disontinued) which used the SNS-BC system.

For the sake of completeness, I should mention that I know of folks who taken lighter weight plastic tele boots and ground off a good section of the duck bill to make them better hikers. This restricts their use to cable bindings and I can't receommend this for or against.