Sledders on Winter Trails

[John in NH]

In the spirit of the lively "Giving way on trail with snowshoes" thread, what's the deal with sledders on winter trails? Does anyone else see them as a safety risk for uphill travelers? Seriously.

Last winter, I had to jump off trail on the steeps off liberty as a group barreled down on me and past me without being able to stop. Didn't even get an apology. I shudder to think of what that would be like on a steeper slope on trails like the hancocks or ammo. Generally speaking, the folks engaging in this practice have maybe a few winter 4k's under their belts, while the non-sledders tend to be my gridiot brethren. Maybe one of the flashing orange highway signs at each trailhead should help: Please think before you sled, don't let fellow hikers end up dead!

 

[Tom Rankin]

Welllllllll, I'm a butt slider, and a W115er. So shoot me.

But seriously, I enjoy it, at 54 years of age (big kid), and try to be responsible when I do, but I admit I have almost run a few people over. At the same time, been the almost victim as well. So, if you slide, try to be careful.

 

[John in NH]

To clarify I am speaking about the use of actual plastic sleds, not butt sliding or glissading. I am guilty of butt sliding at times too, it just seems the little plastic rockets give extra speed.

 

[TJsName]

Well, I think the type of sled matters, as I have seen a variety being used. I would advocate for using a 'swiss bob' style, where your legs are out in front of you for steering/breaking, and there are handles that allow you to steer and lean back to break. I certainly wouldn't take Rosebud down the Ammo.

The other big thing is knowing the trail. I wouldn't sled down a trail that no one in the group has even hiked. It makes doing an out and back that much better, especially if you are breaking trail! It is an absolutely exhilarating experience and I would highly recommend you try it out with someone experienced!

Sledding is much better on moderate grades, as it is easy to maintain control but still maintain your speed. I think the top of the Ammo trail would be too steep for my tastes. Generally if it's steep enough that people can easily butt slide, it's probably too steep to sled. I would say the Avalon Trail is about as steep as I like it.

Sledding where there are crowds is dangerous, but it also takes some of the fun out of it. We make a concerted effort to avoid crowds, by either doing less popular trails, or doing them later in the day. While sledding last year we only came across one group, and they were heading up to Lonesome Lake at 4pm!

I'm not sure I've hiked up a sledder 'glazed' trail. I'm not sure how a sled would cause a layer of ice to form differently than a trail back by snowshoes (even in really wet snow, I would think it's quite similar). I know when we sled, we have some packdrag that roughs up the trail behind us a bit, so maybe that helps mitigate it. I'm still fairly new though, so perhaps I don't understand the process fully.

 

[iagreewithjamie]

While getting hit by a sledder would suck for me, I think it'd fare far worse for the sledder. Anyone else keep snowshoes and crampons on the back of their pack with the spikes aiming outward?

 

[Tom Rankin]

While getting hit by a sledder would suck for me, I think it'd fare far worse for the sledder. Anyone else keep snowshoes and crampons on the back of their pack with the spikes aiming outward?

That depends on whether they are heading up or down the trail. I've used sleds and my butt a lot, and I've never hit anyone, but I have met a few trees the hard way!

 

[John in NH]

While getting hit by a sledder would suck for me, I think it'd fare far worse for the sledder. Anyone else keep snowshoes and crampons on the back of their pack with the spikes aiming outward?

Ha, yes a collision would be bad for both parties, but it would be the sledder's fault. How can anyone argue otherwise? It is everyone's responsibility to be in control of themselves and their actions. A winter trail usually gets packed down into a trench that is only a person's natural stride wide with snowshoes, so sledders are funneled right into the only place other hikers are walking. It's awfully hard to get out of the way of a fast moving sledder, especially when wearing the snowshoes we are all supposed to be wearing.

Also, if it's the rule that downhill hikers are supposed to yield to uphill hikers, how is it logical that it is the uphill hikers responsibility to dive off trail for their life to a downhill hiker rocketing down on a sled?

Maybe it would be best if we kept the use of plastic sleds to the neighborhood hill instead

 

[TJsName]

I would agree that if someone is out of control, then they are at fault. I don't think that all sledders are out of control though.

To answer your question with a hypothetical scenario: If I am sledding down a trail at night with my headlamp on, and someone is hiking in the dark with no light, and it's at the bottom of a steep hill, but there is a tiny embankment on the other side that makes it so I carry my speed and start to sled uphill. It's snowing moderately and I don't see the person in time to stop (I am counting on someone to be wearing a headlamp). Since I am going uphill at the time, I technically have the right of way. The other person has failed to bring the appropriate gear for the conditions. Would I still be at fault?

 

[teleskier]

Um, sledders are hikers. I've only got that piece of plastic under my butt because I'd rather replace it at $5 a pop than a pair of gore-tex pants at $200 plus. That said, when I'm going downhill faster than a walk, on skis or a sled, I figure it's my responsibility to be under control. I do find it pretty amusing, though, when people flip out and dive off the trail when it's plenty wide enough for the two of us.

 

[Tom_Murphy]

I would agree that if someone is out of control, then they are at fault. I don't think that all sledders are out of control though.

To answer your question with a hypothetical scenario: If I am sledding down a trail at night with my headlamp on, and someone is hiking in the dark with no light, and it's at the bottom of a steep hill, but there is a tiny embankment on the other side that makes it so I carry my speed and start to sled uphill. It's snowing moderately and I don't see the person in time to stop (I am counting on someone to be wearing a headlamp). Since I am going uphill at the time, I technically have the right of way. The other person has failed to bring the appropriate gear for the conditions. Would I still be at fault?

Of course you would be at fault.

You are relying on the other person to be wearing a head lamp in order to stop in time. It is not their responsibility to alert you to their presense. What if they were descending weaaring a headlamp or turned around to talk to the person behind them?

Plenty on people enjoy hiking by the moonlight when there is a snow cover.

I would be very very upset if a sledder hit me. It would be a bad situation.

 

[iagreewithjamie]

Any time you are not in control, you are at fault.

 

[TJsName]

Any time you are not in control, you are at fault.

Oh nice, so as long as I have control when I run you down?

In all seriousness, it's quite safe and I personally take making it safe a priority. If I was overly worried about worst care scenarios, I likely wouldn't head out in the first place.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

When I buttslide down the trail, I hold my poles out in front of me and make machine gun noises while pointing them at any hikers in my way.

Tim

 

[DougPaul]

When I buttslide down the trail, I hold my poles out in front of me and make machine gun noises while pointing them at any hikers in my way.

They can shoot back too...

When I hike uphill, I often have my ice axe spike pointed uphill.
And when I glissade, the spike is generally behind me (uphill).

Doug

 

[Brambor]

it's not like there are many fast blind corners out there. you should generally see sledders going downhill from far away. Just step aside and let them whiz by while catching a breather and while enjoying the show. ... and be happy to be outside, in the mountains, breathing the piney woods into your dna.

Liveandletlive

 

[Raven]

When I buttslide down the trail, I hold my poles out in front of me and make machine gun noises while pointing them at any hikers in my way.

Tim

I will attest that Tim can indeed be a menace with his poles sometimes, even in summer. I don't recall hearing the machine gun before I felt the impact though.

This is great that we simultaneously have the annual snowshoe debate right alongside the annual buttsledding debate. Maybe we can get two rounds in this season.

To add to the thread, pragmatically speaking, I find it useful to carry crampons on many winter hikes where trails tend to have sledding. Of course, the ones with sledding are often the steeper ones anyway, so chances are I would have them.

I'm fairly sure no kittens are harmed by sledding on trails, but I believe there is a scoping committee forming to discuss a possible rule so we can all be very clear on what we are supposed to do....once they have written and adopted bylaws, elected officers, and everyone has their smart goals approved.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I will attest that Tim can indeed be a menace with his poles sometimes, even in summer. I don't recall hearing the machine gun before I felt the impact though.

Sorry, again

Tim

 

[teleskier]

This is great that we simultaneously have the annual snowshoe debate right alongside the annual buttsledding debate. Maybe we can get two rounds in this season.

How about, "Always be in control on your sled. Unless, of course, the guy you're about to whack into is post-holing."

 

[Raven]

Sorry, again

Tim

Ha! Just giving you a hard time.

 

[TJsName]

How about, "Always be in control on your sled. Unless, of course, the guy you're about to whack into is post-holing."

I actually bought a special sled that creates post holes as I go. It also leaves little memorials for all the kittens that died in the process.