Sledding on Trails - Is it Reckless?

[IQuest]

If I were sledding down a trail, on a sled (not butt sledding), and I hit a tree or rock and broke my leg, arm, neck, or whatever, and had to be rescued, would I be deemed reckless? I'm curious as to what others think.

 

[B the Hiker]

A person's actions could be considered reckless if, by the standards of an ordinary person, the actor was aware of the existence of an unreasonable risk, and ignored that risk.


Brian

 

[peakbagger]

Up to the arbitrary decision of an administrator whose revenue is based on collecting fees for recklessness.

 

[BISCUT]

If I were sledding down a trail, on a sled (not butt sledding), and I hit a tree or rock and broke my leg, arm, neck, or whatever, and had to be rescued, would I be deemed reckless? I'm curious as to what others think.

Replace sled with tube and location to Loon Mt. and it's not.....

 

[B the Hiker]

Mr. Biscuit, Loon Mountain is a ski resort and as a business, is held to a level of responsibility to ensure a safe setting for all invitees (i.e., people who go there for business). If not, those injured can sue if there is negligence on Loon's part.

Brian

 

[dug]

It would seem to be, but as pointed out, they grey area in these statutes are as wide as the rules themselves. My reasoning is:

*Sliding down a narrow trail has the real possibility of putting yourself and someone else in danger. This would seem to be known ahead of time, before the act took place.

*There are no breaking mechanisms, other than your own body parts, which are prone to breaking and bending in unnatural ways

Now, I am approximately 100% of my credits away from a law-degree, and did not stay in a named hotel last night, so there's as good a chance I am wrong as I am right....

 

[Tom Rankin]

If I were sledding down a trail, on a sled (not butt sledding), and I hit a tree or rock and broke my leg, arm, neck, or whatever, and had to be rescued, would I be deemed reckless? I'm curious as to what others think.

I would say so. What tool exactly are you using? Swissbob? 'Spoon'? Tire Tube like sled?

 

[Brambor]

just toss the sled as far as you can, dial 911 and then explain to the rescuers the 'contrails' came from buttons on your butt.

 

[Raven]

A person's actions could be considered reckless if, by the standards of an ordinary person, the actor was aware of the existence of an unreasonable risk, and ignored that risk.


Brian

Considering it is based on the 'standards of an ordinary person,' we could all be screwed. Most 'ordinary' people think we are all nuts just for going out hiking mountains in winter. Our very activity is considered reckless by some ordinary folks.

 

[sierra]

You should be made to stand at the entrance of Franconia Notch with a big sign around your neck saying " I was sledding down a mountain and hit a tree, making a lot of people come and carry me out"

 

[BISCUT]

Mr. Biscuit, Loon Mountain is a ski resort and as a business, is held to a level of responsibility to ensure a safe setting for all invitees (i.e., people who go there for business). If not, those injured can sue if there is negligence on Loon's part.

Brian

There is no Mr....and someone needs to relax a bit! OMG! Little carbon in the right place and we have a diamond! I am well aware of what Loon Mt. is and the difference in express as well as implied liability and we could go ad nauseam with nuance and litigate all we want from a laptop. Hell, I am a big giant 42 year old kid!! Therefore I will argue attractive nuisance....... I was merely making hyperbole and joining in a fun discussion on a thread....and I do believe there is a tad bit of conundrum between my analogy. Not in the legal sense, but in real life what does a normal dude do!!

Me, reckless is more like slamming down Lion Head and not so reckless is sliding on your ass down Avalon. And I've done both with a damn huge smile on my face. In my older age, there are a few drops on lion head (not to mention tree roots) that would kill me as I wouldn't bounce off em like I use to! But we could add conditions, experience, bla, bla, bla. This was merely a fun thread, at least IMHO.

 

[BISCUT]

You should be made to stand at the entrance of Franconia Notch with a big sign around your neck saying " I was sledding down a mountain and hit a tree, making a lot of people come and carry me out"

This I love.... Or "I was a D-Bag" around your neck. Call it community service!! Sierra, we could run a small kangaroo court together!

 

[TJsName]

If I were sledding down a trail, on a sled (not butt sledding), and I hit a tree or rock and broke my leg, arm, neck, or whatever, and had to be rescued, would I be deemed reckless? I'm curious as to what others think.

I would think the full context is needed, just like any other rescue. The conditions are a big factor. The sled is equipment, just like crampons. Sometimes it makes sense, and sometimes it does not. I do not think it automatically makes you reckless though.

 

[B the Hiker]

Someone asked me off-line what an "invitee" is. An "invitee" is simply someone on the property for business. You walk into a coffee shop or a grocery store, you are an invitee.

As for the bigger point, a jury, I would think, if perfectly able to determine where it is reasonable to go sledding. Everyone has been sledding, and many people have thought about where kids can go sledding. I would think a group of ordinary citizens could determine where it would be safe for adults to go sledding.

Using juries for obscure activities may be problematic, but for something like sledding, I wouldn't be too worried.

Brian

 

[summitseeker]

Hey All,

So if glissading is considered okay by many than by default butt-sliding is of little difference (I know, I know, ice axes and what not).

So if one opts not to destroy their high-end pants with some sort of additional barrier (swiss bob, roll-up sled, etc). The lines between a glissade/buttslide and sledding all become blurred.

I will readily admit that I have engaged in all three. I have had the most fun butt-sliding the Ammonousuc on a day where there was almost no traffic, only second to taking an actual sled down Round Pond Road in Pawtuckaway to the pond early last spring. In both instances I had some form of traction on my feet to help control the descent. Does that make me exempt from being considered reckless? Probably not, but individual perception plays a big part in what we as winter hikers deem as acceptable risk.

Personally, I love the thrill and speed of a quick descent with the aid of gravity. I wouldn't take a sled down Tuck's, but I am not adverse to the idea of taking a roll-up sled with me to descend from Cannon.

I am mindful of not ruining the trail, as I disdain bare-booters to no end, but if the hard-packed snow offers a quick, fun, safe, and speedy egress I am all about it. That's just my two cents. I am sure some purists would disagree, but I promise not to ruin their trails or run into their shins.

Be well,

Z

 

[Becca M]

Considering that there are several thousand happy people sliding one way or another down into Tuckerman Ravine thru some NARROW rock walls and over the *actual* Tuckerman Ravine Trail on a fine Spring day, I would say it would be crazy *NOT* to do the same!!!

 

[BISCUT]

Someone asked me off-line what an "invitee" is. An "invitee" is simply someone on the property for business. You walk into a coffee shop or a grocery store, you are an invitee.

As for the bigger point, a jury, I would think, if perfectly able to determine where it is reasonable to go sledding. Everyone has been sledding, and many people have thought about where kids can go sledding. I would think a group of ordinary citizens could determine where it would be safe for adults to go sledding.

Using juries for obscure activities may be problematic, but for something like sledding, I wouldn't be too worried.

Brian

Yet you quoted me in your reply in a rather condescending manner, implying it was me who needed the definition. I would think a person of your clarity and expertise would have differentiated the two. And never mentioned the other offline request for a definition. Same token, you haven't replied to my offline message either. Not to mention you seem to have a different tenor than your previous post. I wish no ill will, this is fun for me, not a true science. Buy if you want to retort to a poster in that manner then wear the big boy pants when you get called out. I'm here to learn from dudes and women who have more experience than me. I'm not above sayin ohhh bot I messed that one up! Try it. Good for the soul.

Edited to add:

Decent LSAT analogy in paragraph #2.

 

[B the Hiker]

I'm trying to make sense of this post.

Someone asked if it would be reckless. I gave a good faith answer.

Someone asked off-line what an "invitee" is. I gave an answer.

"Raven" said we might not want a jury. I shared my thoughts.

I don't understand why I'm being attacked. I don't feel that I have been condescending to anyone.


All the best,


Brian

 

[TJsName]

Considering that there are several thousand happy people sliding one way or another down into Tuckerman Ravine thru some NARROW rock walls and over the *actual* Tuckerman Ravine Trail on a fine Spring day, I would say it would be crazy *NOT* to do the same!!!

Haha, I like where your head is it. I guess if someone gets caught after dark without a sled, that could be reckless. Wasting time walking.

 

[Tom Rankin]

Considering that there are several thousand happy people sliding one way or another down into Tuckerman Ravine thru some NARROW rock walls and over the *actual* Tuckerman Ravine Trail on a fine Spring day, I would say it would be crazy *NOT* to do the same!!!

"But MOM, *EVERYONE* was doing it!"