Sleeping in cars allowed at Lafayette Place?

[peakbagger]

I think a few of us are getting close to 30 years.

Its definitely a variation on an old thread. The difference is the big increase of high end camper conversions showing up in lots, these are not the old slide in pickup campers, these are 50 K on up luxury units. They started appearing during the first summer of covid when folks from outside the area were not supposed to be even visiting the whites. Lots were rarely full so it wasnt an issue. Last summer there were more of them and the lots were starting to fill up early. This summer my guess is use is bit lower but still elevated compared to pre covid. These camper conversions are advertised as though every parking spot is open for camping and many owners are using that as "permission" to do so.

 

[JoshandBaron]

While this thread asks about state land, most discussion references USFS lots. This definition used by USFS may be helpful, but whatever you need to tell yourselves...

"Camping" means the temporary use of National Forest System lands for the purpose of overnight occupancy without a permanently fixed structure.

 

[JoshandBaron]

The OP on FB was probably fishing. The question has been coming up constantly in the past couple of years. People are just looking for others to tell them it's OK. And trust me, dozens say it is. Most common response, "I do it all the time and have never had a problem." As I said above, I always arrive early at trail-heads and am seeing this pretty much everywhere, all the time. Tuesday the 5th I pulled into the Piper Trail lot to see 3 vehicles there. All 3 were from distant states, or provinces that start with Q. In other words, long drives. All 3 were covered in dew, so were there overnight. Of the 3, I'm positive, heard them, had people inside. Not sure about the 3rd. That person may have camped at Penacook Shelter. But I'd be willing to bet, someone was sleeping in that one as well, pickup truck with a topper.

When the question comes up, anywhere, I refer to this. Which pretty much covers any question here. After the intro., the very first rule.

It does boil done to, IMO, people don't consider sleeping in there's vehicles, camping. One of the vehicles I saw in the Piper lot, from the Q place, was a VW EuroVan Camper. Probably the language barrier thing in that case.

Your image attachments always show up as blocked for me so I apologize if my post was redundant.

 

[ChrisB]

I don't agree with this line of "………. The trailhead in question from the OP would qualify considering it is along a major State Highway in a very popular area.

OMG I remember being rousted in the wee hours many a winter night sleeping in my car in the Pinkham parking lot in the 70s.

The AMC had this little old guy who ruthlessly patrolled that lot all night. He could spy fogged up windows at 100 yards and fully open windows at 200!

And no sob stories accepted: just move it now. Rocky Branch here we come.

 

[peakbagger]

Interesting you mention Pinkham, I met someone years ago who had gotten a job as overnight desk clerk at Joe Dodge lodge and she didnt work there long as part of the job was to roam the parking lot a few times at night and roust overnight campers. She really felt uncomfortable going around with flashlight in the dark waking folks up but when she complained she was informed by the management that it was either do the rounds or quit the job so she quit. Not sure if its still a requirement for the job but I think folks now use the overflow lot on the other side of the river to the south for overnight camping in cars. That lot as well as Pinkham parking is the former RT 16, so I do not know if its state of USFS land (my guess is USFS). I seriously doubt the USFS has an overnight law enforcement officer checking lots at night unless its short term thing related to car breakins, although in the past the WMNF would pay local law enforcement to patrol certain locations. At one point Barnes field used to get an evening drive thru by the Coos County sheriff.

 

[JustJoe]

I think we know by now, many posts on FB can be taken with a grain of salt. Anyway, this was just posted by someone an hour ago.

"Just a heads up: Rangers were waking people up and handing out tickets for camping (sleeping in their cars) at the Oliverian Brook Trailhead last Friday night - including someone catching some shut-eye while waiting for a significant other to get off the trail.
Not interested in people defending or bashing camping at trailheads, pointing out that it's against the rules, etc. Strictly a heads up that they were out there and tickets were issued in case that sways anyone's weekend decisions."

 

[Grey J]

That's a riot, my comments are almost identical. I just realized looking at that how long I've been on this site. When I hit 20 years, you should all chip in and buy me something nice. My shell will most likely need replacing by then. I prefer Patagonia and 3 layer Gore-Tex as I use it year round ( red too).

I think at 20 years you get the golden compass.

 

[peakbagger]

Perhaps a snickers bar painted gold

 

[CaptCaper]

OMG I remember being rousted in the wee hours many a winter night sleeping in my car in the Pinkham parking lot in the 70s.

The AMC had this little old guy who ruthlessly patrolled that lot all night. He could spy fogged up windows at 100 yards and fully open windows at 200!

And no sob stories accepted: just move it now. Rocky Branch here we come.

And yet back in August 2003 I asked the AMC if we could park and stay the night with our truckcamper in the lot as we were going to hike up Mt.W early. And they gave permission and we did. Probably couldn't do that now.

 

[skiguy]

Perhaps a snickers bar painted gold

Actually, it's a trophy with an Alligator Egg encased in gold.

 

[Rhody Seth]

I think we know by now, many posts on FB can be taken with a grain of salt. Anyway, this was just posted by someone an hour ago.

"Just a heads up: Rangers were waking people up and handing out tickets for camping (sleeping in their cars) at the Oliverian Brook Trailhead last Friday night - including someone catching some shut-eye while waiting for a significant other to get off the trail.
Not interested in people defending or bashing camping at trailheads, pointing out that it's against the rules, etc. Strictly a heads up that they were out there and tickets were issued in case that sways anyone's weekend decisions."

Good to see they're keeping people honest.

It's an interesting conversation and I can see how the prevalence of camper vans can make it more of an issue now. Still I consider sleeping at trailheads to be about as victimless a crime as you can get. As someone else mentioned you can leave your car, hike into the woods a little ways and it would be fine. So it's not the car that's the problem, it's that you're in it. I'm not going to argue that it's legal or claim it's not "camping" in some technical sense, and I fully accept the risk of getting a ticket. But for me, if I'm arriving in the Whites at 11 PM and plan to hike at 5 AM - it doesn't make any sense for me to get a room somewhere and then make my way to the trailhead. I want to get up and after it and often sleeping at the trailhead is the most practical.

Also there should also be some kind of acceptance curve for those of us roughing it with janky setups in the back of our SUVs vs those with pimped out vanlives.

 

[JoshandBaron]

Good to see they're keeping people honest.

It's an interesting conversation and I can see how the prevalence of camper vans can make it more of an issue now. Still I consider sleeping at trailheads to be about as victimless a crime as you can get. As someone else mentioned you can leave your car, hike into the woods a little ways and it would be fine. So it's not the car that's the problem, it's that you're in it. I'm not going to argue that it's legal or claim it's not "camping" in some technical sense, and I fully accept the risk of getting a ticket. But for me, if I'm arriving in the Whites at 11 PM and plan to hike at 5 AM - it doesn't make any sense for me to get a room somewhere and then make my way to the trailhead. I want to get up and after it and often sleeping at the trailhead is the most practical.

Also there should also be some kind of acceptance curve for those of us roughing it with janky setups in the back of our SUVs vs those with pimped out vanlives.

If you really wanted to get after it you'd start your trip at 11pm and get an extra night in the woods. Most of my trips start at night and that extra sleep in the woods makes a trip much more effective if part of your goal is to decompress.

 

[ChrisB]

Good to see they're keeping people honest.

It's an interesting conversation and I can see how the prevalence of camper vans can make it more of an issue now. Still I consider sleeping at trailheads to be about as victimless a crime as you can get. As someone else mentioned you can leave your car, hike into the woods a little ways and it would be fine. So it's not the car that's the problem, it's that you're in it. I'm not going to argue that it's legal or claim it's not "camping" in some technical sense, and I fully accept the risk of getting a ticket. But for me, if I'm arriving in the Whites at 11 PM and plan to hike at 5 AM - it doesn't make any sense for me to get a room somewhere and then make my way to the trailhead. I want to get up and after it and often sleeping at the trailhead is the most practical.

Also there should also be some kind of acceptance curve for those of us roughing it with janky setups in the back of our SUVs vs those with pimped out vanlives.

I wonder human waste --the collateral damage of trailhead camping-- is the real issue. For trailheads not equipped with permanent toilets or seasonal porta potties, what's a hiker to do?

 

[maineguy]

I wonder human waste --the collateral damage of trailhead camping-- is the real issue. For trailheads not equipped with permanent toilets or seasonal porta potties, what's a hiker to do?

Agreed, human waste is probably the major concern. But...at those trailheads with facilities, sleeping in your car should be permitted. And...I think that it is high time that all trailheads in the WMNF have such facilities.

 

[sierra]

I wonder human waste --the collateral damage of trailhead camping-- is the real issue. For trailheads not equipped with permanent toilets or seasonal porta potties, what's a hiker to do?

I always had a Nalgene bottle marked for this very purpose, as for the other business, I would wait or stop before hand. While I might not follow every law on the books, I do love and respect the land we all use and would not consider adding to the mess existing at many roadside lots and trailheads. I'm sure we all have ran into the woods before a hike and seen first hand the disgusting lack of stewardship at most popular trailheads. I always found it ironic, the very people there to enjoy the wilderness, literally crap on it at the same time.

 

[JustJoe]

Agreed, human waste is probably the major concern. But...at those trailheads with facilities, sleeping in your car should be permitted. And...I think that it is high time that all trailheads in the WMNF have such facilities.

There is just no way they will ever make this legal/OK. It is happening on a regular basis at every trail-head I've been using, over the past year or 2. At least it seems people are trying to be somewhat stealthy about. Can't even image what trail-heads would turn into if it were to be legal. Give people an inch, and they'll take a mile every time.

Of this white vehicle wasn't exactly stealthy at the Piper Trail-Head about 10 days ago.

 

[peakbagger]

There also have been several cases over the years where indvidual's have camped out in or near parking areas who were working the lots doing car breakins. How they were tracked down was hidden cameras tracking cars and plates and then corelating with car break ins. There was a big case about 15 years ago that months to solve with hundreds of break-ins in multiple lots.

Most break-ins occur overnight and having overnight campers probably impacts the ability to track activity in the lots.

 

[jfb]

But for me, if I'm arriving in the Whites at 11 PM and plan to hike at 5 AM - it doesn't make any sense for me to get a room somewhere and then make my way to the trailhead.

For me, arriving at 11 PM, sleeping in my car at a trailhead and starting a hike at 5 AM doesn't make sense. I much prefer to arrive earlier, stay at a WMNF or state campground or hike a few miles into the woods to camp. That way, I don't have to worry about being kicked out at 2 AM by the authorities. There are also a few trailheads where I've found decent tentsites about 1/4 mile away and I'll stay at those when convenient.

 

[JoshandBaron]

There is just no way they will ever make this legal/OK. It is happening on a regular basis at every trail-head I've been using, over the past year or 2. At least it seems people are trying to be somewhat stealthy about. Can't even image what trail-heads would turn into if it were to be legal. Give people an inch, and they'll take a mile every time.

Of this white vehicle wasn't exactly stealthy at the Piper Trail-Head about 10 days ago.

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Last year people were straight up tenting on the grass at Livermore. Given that there are at least 3 campgrounds, a million dispersed sites, and a forest headquarters within pissing distance I was a bit surprised.

 

[skiguy]

Last year people were straight up tenting on the grass at Livermore. Given that there are at least 3 campgrounds, a million dispersed sites, and a forest headquarters within pissing distance I was a bit surprised.

From what I’ve been reading this boils down to the newest term as of late that is coined “Stealth”.