Snowshoes in the whites...

[DSettahr]

Hailing from the Adirondacks, I'm not used to seeing people hiking in the winter without snowshoes on their feet (we can get ticketed for not wearing them here). Does everyone in the White Mountains just carry them on their backs to look cool?

 

[Red Oak]

Hailing from the Adirondacks, I'm not used to seeing people hiking in the winter without snowshoes on their feet (we can get ticketed for not wearing them here). Does everyone in the White Mountains just carry them on their backs to look cool?

If you want to avoid those "types",stay away from franconia notch.The only one who is allowed on this site to not wear them is leaf because she does amazing stuff[my friends in cali love your pics!].This winter is very odd with its lack of snow,thus some hikes really did not need them.The lack of snow cover far north is very not cool.I would gladly join the "snowshoe police" anytime,nothing like a snow covered posthole to break ya ankle.....Are you going to expand your lean too list here in the 603 Dsett?

 

[Lefty E]

Snowshoes in the whites

I think those hikers (including me most hikes this year!!) are concerned about the condition of the trails and if necessary will put them on. Example: yesterday while hiking the Crawford Path to Ike and then back to Pierce, I ran into 4 other hikers and 3 were carrying snowshoes, but the trails were frozen solid and we were all using microspikes or light crampons.. later in the day I think the trail might have started to soften up and they needed them...I will say some hikers are very stylish and wear their shoes well!! But it also is true even with new snowfall, many in the Whites will bareboot or light traction when the right call would be snowshoes..Lefty E

 

[KRobi]

At this point in the season they are useful if you like televators on steep sections, but aside from that probably just "eye candy" to "look cool" or something you carry to build up your strength (extra 4 lbs). Crampons and your microspikes/HIllsounds will get you much farther faster. See my last Trail Report on the middle and southern Prezzies. We left snowshoes in the car and were glad we did. Reports for later on Sunday made out that if we get cold weather (not forecasted) the trails will be even icier. All ice, bare rock and hardpack on ridge. There was however some higher snow areas where with soft conditions snowshoes might be needed. Sooo, I would now at least think about carrying them and worse case you look cool and get a better workout.

 

[peakbagger]

There is a long term point of contention in the whites. This past weekend, we encountered a group of 6 guided climbers while going up Washington. All six had fairly new high end near identical gear, all Mammut,plastic boots, crampons. Not one snowshoe amongst them. There was three of us, I elected to wear hillsound microspikes to ascend while the other 2 used snowshoes. In general at the summit I think we were in the minority carrying snowshoes. Most of the guided trips up Washington that I have observed over the years do not appear to carry snowshoes. We switched to crampons or spikes above Lake of the clouds and for most of the ridge as the snow conditions were boilerplate with possibly 1 to 2 inches of snow. When descending, we hit a section of trail that had posthole potential so we switched to snowshoes. It was obvious that others in front of us had not.

Most folks make the decision to leave the snowshoes in the trunk at the base of mountain in the early AM when the snow is solid from cold overnight temps, unfortunately this time of year, the temps and sun can turn boilerplate into postholable snow and usually this occurs when the hikers are heading down and therefore they dont have a choice.

I havent spent a lot of time in the ADK's but I have been warned by a ranger there once when using crampons on an steep ice covered trail. I had snowshoes in my possession and even started out with snowshoes but it was safer with crampons so I had switched to them while climbing the slope. I was not impressed that the ranger only saw the situation in "black and white" when, the reality was that common sense dictated crampons. Not having spent a lot of time overthere, I always wonder how folks climb the numerous slides while only using skis or snowshoes with no need for crampons but I expect that on occasion common sense prevails. Since traction can never be legally used in the ADK do folks just not buy it and just leave the crampons home?

Somewhere there is a common sense solution, I have generally felt that requiring possession of snowshoes or skis during "winter" is a good option but many ice climbers heading to the local ice falls and cliffs and the thousands that go up to Tuckermans during the spring season would be very upset if it was the law, although it would open up quite a trade in one day snowshoe rentals for AMC. I also have personally encountered conditions where I have postholed with snowshoes so I am not sure how to legislate a proper response.

 

[Tom Rankin]

Since traction can never be legally used in the ADK do folks just not buy it and just leave the crampons home? ... Somewhere there is a common sense solution.

The rule was originally enacted for the sake of skiers. The common sense SHOULD be: 'If you are post-holing, you need snowshoes'. But as we all know, common sense is not very common.

If you are off trail, (i.e. on a slide), I doubt that the Rangers would even be there in the first place to chide you. But of COURSE, crampons are ESSENTIAL for certain hikes in the ADKs.

However, I've seen lots of people that start up the trail with crampons on from the first step. I've never understood this. If the conditions do not warrant it, why subject your feet and ankles to the 'platform shoes' syndrome? Crampons can also tear up a well packed trail.

The bottom line: Be prepared for any conditions, and use the appropriate gear!

 

[Tim Seaver]

The worst and most destructive postholing I have ever seen in my lifetime was witnessed in the ADK. By someone WEARING SNOWSHOES. They did their hike during a rainstorm when the snowpack was melting. The trail was basically 10 inch deep, snowshoe sized holes, closely spaced...and now frozen. (But at least they ruined the trail "legally"). The safest way to travel the now-trashed trail was via screwboots, which we did. There was one person coming down who was laboring with the task of keeping out of the postholes while dutifully wearing his MSRs, but he still managed to give us a snarl after looking at our feet. Sometimes you just have to ignore the "rules" - this was one of those times.

I havent spent a lot of time in the ADK's but I have been warned by a ranger there once when using crampons on an steep ice covered trail. I had snowshoes in my possession and even started out with snowshoes but it was safer with crampons so I had switched to them while climbing the slope.

This kind of ignorant, black and white "enforcement" stuff makes my blood boil. I do hope you kept your crampons on. Like hell if I am ever going to let a ranger endanger me by dictating what's on my feet when conditions obviously dictate crampons - I would GLADLY take that doofus to court.

 

[Mike P.]

Hailing from the Adirondacks, I'm not used to seeing people hiking in the winter without snowshoes on their feet (we can get ticketed for not wearing them here). Does everyone in the White Mountains just carry them on their backs to look cool?

I never felt cool trying to duck under downed trees or in the canopy with the snowshoes grabbing every &%$#@@* branch

Or was I just doing trail maintenance by making sure the trail corridor was the proper height.

On well packed trails that might be icy, I opt for platform shoes to prevent sliding back over clown feet when the trail is so solid, there is no post hole possibility.

 

[dug]

Yes, my snowshoes like to ride on my pack and catch the views. The don't like being trapped in the basement all the time, so I try to let them out and give them some fresh air while they squeal with delight. Other than that, no, they rarely serve a purpose unless right after a fresh storm or late spring during melt.

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

I wore my Hillsounds most of the time this winter (because the trails were either hard packed or icy) but carried my MSRs and used them for flotation when necessary and for the televators and improved traction when necessary. Because Lauky tends to get under foot from time to time I can't take a chance on crampons. They have hung on the wall for the last four years.

New Hampshire is the Live free (think for yourself) or die state. New York is the Empire state, so when there just do what the emperor tells you to do.

 

[Tom Rankin]

The worst and most destructive postholing I have ever seen in my lifetime was witnessed in the ADK. By someone WEARING SNOWSHOES. They did their hike during a rainstorm when the snowpack was melting. The trail was basically 10 inch deep, snowshoe sized holes, closely spaced...and now frozen. (But at least they ruined the trail "legally"). The safest way to travel the now-trashed trail was via screwboots, which we did. There was one person coming down who was laboring with the task of keeping out of the postholes while dutifully wearing his MSRs, but he still managed to give us a snarl after looking at our feet. Sometimes you just have to ignore the "rules" - this was one of those times.

It very well could have been me that made those holes! It was the Wolf Jaws, several years ago, near the Super Bowl time frame. It was raining, and we made very deep post holes with our MSRs. That night the temps plummeted to below 0. I'm sure the trail was a mess the next day! The problem was, w/o snowshoes would have been even worse. Sometimes you can't win.

 

[skiguy]

Is it just my perception that the number of Snowshoe/Postholing threads each Winter Season seem to be directly proportional to the number of inches of Snow on the ground?

 

[Tim Seaver]

Is it just my perception that the number of Snowshoe/Postholing threads each Winter Season seem to be directly proportional to the number of inches of Snow on the ground?

Yes, and there appears to be a parallel inverse relationship - the less snow there is, the more wound up people get about it. A dwindling resource to protect!

 

[MichaelJ]

Ooh, this is the cue for my annual Postholing avatar. I'll update that when I get home tonight.

 

[sierra]

Ooh, this is the cue for my annual Postholing avatar. I'll update that when I get home tonight.

First off, I dont care if every trail in the Whites gets postholed to hell and back, the "snowshoe law" in the dacks can stay there, you should have the freedom to suffer all you want. As far as looking cool, anyone who knows anything, knows in order to look cool you strap an ice ax to your pack not snowshoes.

 

[Tom Rankin]

First off, I dont care if every trail in the Whites gets postholed to hell and back, the "snowshoe law" in the dacks can stay there, you should have the freedom to suffer all you want.

It's not just about the post-holer, it's the mess they leave behind, (potentially for weeks), and it especially hurts the skiers, which again, was the impetus for this rule. I saw almost 0 skiers on trails this winter in the Whites, except around Lincoln Woods. And the vast majority of those turned around when the rail road bed came to an end. In the DAX, they are everywhere. It's a different place, there can be different rules....

 

[bikehikeskifish]

On a more positive note, the monorail season will be short-lived this spring

Tim

 

[skiguy]

IMO...It's all about the Snow conditions in a givin year.Before the Internet and before we all had our brains tied to current trails conditions reported on the Internet no one had their painties up between their crack on this issue. Go Hike your Hike ski your ski and climb your climb before you come out here thinking you got something to grind about. Get real and enjoy the Trail. Whaan whann whan. Ouch...... get real people and get fit and throw your worries some place else before we all worry about who is wearing what on the end of their legs.

 

[Silverfox]

ah..the snowshoe debate...An amazing amount of folks on the trails this year not wearing or even carrying them..no surprize the worst areas were the well traveled trails in the Notches..must be the "no snow in my backyard" mentality.Lots of folks wearing only crampons. No question that many access trails to the Whites this year were spikeable to the ridge but once above 4000 feet snow depths increased dramatically and snowshoes were and are needed. Too many times we saw too many groups trashing the ridge trails this year..We saw a group of 10 in crampons mashing through knee deep and more snow on Webster Cliff Trail ..when we came by in snowshoes it was like they had never seen such inventions before.
While we did use snowshoes car to car for probably 3/4 of our 48 this winter there were many trails that on cold days were packed out hard and spikes or crampons were the preferred footware. Now that the weather is warming snowshoes will be more in use in the softening conditions and preventing potentially dangerous postholes and frozen choppy trails for the next hikers along.
Hey..for sure snowshoes do go along for the ride sometimes..but when its winter in the Whites with snow on the ground..shouldn't the proper footware in the majority of conditions be snowshoes....just saying

 

[TrishandAlex]

I've noticed a definite difference in cultures/perspectives between two general groups I'm associated with. I can't speak for all hikers or all climbers, of course. However, I have noticed that the folks I personally know who are more climbers than hikers, or who routinely do serious mountaineering (the likes of Rainier, Denali, glacier travel, etc.), do not expect the hiking trails to be smooth snowshoe paths, and they don't expect to have to create a packed trail for others. The attitude is that these are the mountains and one should come prepared for all conditions, and that if one expects smoothed-out paths, then one might want to stick to groomed trails.

Some (not all) of the hikers I know who routinely hike the Whites feel that all should avoid making postholes whenever possible and that folks should use snowshoes if they find they're making more than a footprint without them. That leaving postholes damages the trail for others and creates serious and unnecessary hazards (such is the attitude expressed on this thread).

Depending on one's perspective, both sides make sense. I'm not convinced there's one "right" answer.

I'll wear the 'shoes if I'm in danger of postholing. If I'm leaving a footprint but not a posthole, then I'll continue to bareboot. However, I don't share the opinion that everyone else should wear the 'shoes just because I think I should. I do think everyone should at least carry them, though, in case they lose their way and unexpectedly find themselves in deep snow.