Snowshoes in the whites...

[sardog1]

Ooh, this is the cue for my annual Postholing avatar. I'll update that when I get home tonight.

BTW, "The Video That Dares Not Speak Its Name" is still available, and it's still %$#! funny.

 

[MichaelJ]

First off, I dont care if every trail in the Whites gets postholed to hell and back, the "snowshoe law" in the dacks can stay there, you should have the freedom to suffer all you want.

Since you quoted *me* when you wrote this, I feel obliged to respond.

I'm not suggesting that the Whites should have a snowshoe law.

However, I am definitely suggesting that if someone postholes the hell out of a trail because they just didn't want to wear snowshoes, then they are {unspeakable in a public forum}. They do not have the freedom to impose their suffering on other people.

 

[dug]

Must be time for my yearly request that we don't limit our rants to just snowshoes. They need to be 'proper' snowhoes...breaking out a trail with MSRs if I follow with my 20-year old Redfeathers, which are too wide, will do ME no good. Also, it would be preferable to have the trail broken out by at least two people, alternating steps to the track widens. On their descent, they should not follow in the same trough, but widen it so I may be able to turn MY skis if I so desire. There should be no loops allowed when breaking trail. That is a benefit for ME.

Also, I will continue to request trails are not to be broken out by anyone below 6-feet tall. You are don't doing ME any good, at 5'11", if you aren't taller than ME because I still may hit a low-hanging branch, and I get snow down my back. That gets my back chilly.

Kicksteps on steeper sections should be done in 100-step intervals, alternating each foot with the same pace as ME. At the end of each 100-step interval, there should be a "rest area" (a flat spot about 4' in diameter) off the trail where I may rest MY weary calves, or to allow quicker hikers following ME to pass without messing up steps. Butt-sliding should be prohibited since it will wipe out all the work of the kick-steps done previously.

Last, a new request, all moose who walk on the trails in the winter should be shot on site.

 

[Brambor]

I only wear one snowshoe, usually on my right foot. The left foot rebels (ain't gonna be part of this system,man)

 

[hikerbrian]

Must be time for my yearly request that we don't limit our rants to just snowshoes. They need to be 'proper' snowhoes...breaking out a trail with MSRs if I follow with my 20-year old Redfeathers, which are too wide, will do ME no good. Also, it would be preferable to have the trail broken out by at least two people, alternating steps to the track widens. On their descent, they should not follow in the same trough, but widen it so I may be able to turn MY skis if I so desire. There should be no loops allowed when breaking trail. That is a benefit for ME.

Also, I will continue to request trails are not to be broken out by anyone below 6-feet tall. You are don't doing ME any good, at 5'11", if you aren't taller than ME because I still may hit a low-hanging branch, and I get snow down my back. That gets my back chilly.

Kicksteps on steeper sections should be done in 100-step intervals, alternating each foot with the same pace as ME. At the end of each 100-step interval, there should be a "rest area" (a flat spot about 4' in diameter) off the trail where I may rest MY weary calves, or to allow quicker hikers following ME to pass without messing up steps. Butt-sliding should be prohibited since it will wipe out all the work of the kick-steps done previously.

Last, a new request, all moose who walk on the trails in the winter should be shot on site.

What??? OMG you CANNOT be serious.

"Rest areas" are to be made at 150 step intervals. I thought everyone knew that.

Pack sniffer.

 

[DMOutdoors]

Very interesting debate, and never knew there was a rule in the Daks. Last year, when I started my push for the 48 in January, I used snow shoes almost every hike from January through April. This year, I used them once in October to Isolation, and then most recently on the ridge only for the Trips -that's it. On my recent WTF (Willey, Tom, Field) hike, I put them on because I saw others heading up the trail from the trail head with them on their feet, but after I passed the sign and then them, I took them off, walking up the already completely packed out trail. So there was just no need, but the WTF area can hold a lot of snow, so I didn't put them back in the car and carried them, just as I have often this winter just to be safe in the event I came to a bad area of post holes or unexpectedly deep snow. In December on my failed Pemi loop attempt, I didn't have them then, when I could have maintained my pace over the unbroken Garfield Ridge Trail.

When I first started hiking, it took me a couple of months to figure out what the heck post-holing was. The way I see it, there are potentially several sides to this debate. Anyways, I sort of see this as mostly a courtesy thing to other fellow hikers - which is awesome, but the trail is different for everyone. I've hiked enough spots with post holes to know that they are not easy and can be dangerous in terms of causing injury, but if they do exist, I see that as a challenge and what the mountain wanted to present to me that day, as opposed to "those darn post-holers" or whatever way that perception can be described. Whether its a popular trail or a bushwhack, if someone wants to experience it without snow shoes - by all means do what you want to do, its nature and we have to watch out for ourselves when venturing out there. Me personally, I have no preference if I show up to a trail and its post holed or unbroken. I see it as OK this is going to be easy or this is going to be hard.

 

[una_dogger]

On a more positive note, the monorail season will be short-lived this spring

Tim

I've been hoping for the same

 

[sierra]

Since you quoted *me* when you wrote this, I feel obliged to respond.

I'm not suggesting that the Whites should have a snowshoe law.

However, I am definitely suggesting that if someone postholes the hell out of a trail because they just didn't want to wear snowshoes, then they are {unspeakable in a public forum}. They do not have the freedom to impose their suffering on other people.

Michael Im now not sure why I quoted you now, I think in principle we agree. Yes, if someone postholes a trail they are well, inconsiderate at least. I will wear my snowshoes when I need to, frankly why posthole when you have the gear to avoid it. My main point is people should have the right to do what they choose, regardless of wether it makes others suffer, its trail hiking not graffiti on a public building. I just believe it shouldnt effect you that much, if a trail is postholed, put on your snowshoes, in all my years a postholed trail has never quite frankly made or broke me either way. Im about freedom, freedom of religion, sex, politics, and yes postholing verses snowshoeing. A land with to many laws or regulations is a land of limited freedom. Im now done with this thread until next year, see you all then. Now, wheres the cell phone or dog thread.

I just figured out why I qouted michael, its this new format, I was attempting to just respond not quote anyone sorry.

 

[Lefty E]

I am somewhat apprehensive about heading over to the ADKs next winter to do some winter condition hikes, and seeing trip reports/trail conditions from there where the hikers did not use snowshoes...should I bring extra cash or is being a trail maintainer in the Whites good enough to get off without a fine??
Another trick here in NH would be to check if other hikers at trailheads, while preparing to hike..any ADKers' here?? we will let you pack out the trail so we can use our traction...of course the many fast Whites hikers may not like that (i do not include myself having a fast pace!!)

 

[bignslow]

I am somewhat apprehensive about heading over to the ADKs next winter to do some winter condition hikes, and seeing trip reports/trail conditions from there where the hikers did not use snowshoes...should I bring extra cash or is being a trail maintainer in the Whites good enough to get off without a fine??

Paradox made it all the way to Lake Colden (4-5 miles w/1k+ feet gain) before the meeting the ranger who sent him back to his car.
I've never heard of anyone being fined when respectful of the rangers.

 

[miehoff]

Waste of money?

I usually do more hiking in the winter than any other season. If there is snow, I am almost always wearing crampons. They just give me traction. I carry my shoes out of respect and consideration for the oddball conditions that I might not be able to foresee. Many times, the trail has been packed for several miles and then suddenly, for some reason, the "packer" turned around. This you can't see at the trailhead. Out come the heavy, "cool" looking snowshoes that I have be proudly wearing on my back.

Other than strange situations or newly fallen snow, I almost never use my snowshoes, and out of all my somewhat expensive gear, I find them to be the least used and somewhat of a waste of money.

I do get a kick out of people that have snowshoes on for no apparent reason.

 

[MichaelJ]

No worries, Sierra.

I will say this, though - skiing a postholed trail *sucks*. You lose a lot of control and if a pole goes down into a hole you stand a pretty high probability of wiping out.

I can state from personal experience that wiping out and landing on a tree stump hurts … a LOT.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I like wearing snowshoes, myself. That may not be an apparent reason, but it is a reason. They offer traction, floatation, and if I have them with me, it's often better to wear them than carry them... if there is enough snow.

Tim

 

[skiguy]

No worries, Sierra.

I will say this, though - skiing a postholed trail *sucks*. You lose a lot of control and if a pole goes down into a hole you stand a pretty high probability of wiping out.

I can state from personal experience that wiping out and landing on a tree stump hurts … a LOT.

Sorry but this thread is starting to sound like a bit like a "Magic Carpet Ride" to me! Not really trying to quote anyone here but let's bring all back down to Earth".....really?

 

[miehoff]

I like wearing snowshoes, myself. That may not be an apparent reason, but it is a reason. They offer traction, floatation, and if I have them with me, it's often better to wear them than carry them... if there is enough snow.

Tim

And your reasons are apparent. So, yes, love the snowshoe. Traction and floatation with enough snow=good reason.

I am talking about other conditions, but suddenly I am disappointed with myself for getting involved with a posthole/showshoe thread.

See you soon.

 

[Billy]

... If there is snow, I am almost always wearing crampons...
...
...I do get a kick out of people that have snowshoes on for no apparent reason.

You get a kick out of people that have snowshoes on for no apparent reason. Some people get
a kick out of people who are almost always wearing crampons. Different things make different
people laugh.

Keep in mind that some people might have cold hand syndrome (Reynaud's?) or maybe severe lower back pain or some other
condition, and as a result it's just easier for them to put the snowshoes on at the car and keep them on, even if the trail conditions when you pass them don't perfectly warrant it.

 

[Dan's Brother]

Postholing with Snowshoes

Here is a quote from Mohamed on his trail report for Mt Height and Carter Dome:

From summit of Mt. Height to summit of Carter Dome and down Carter Dome Trail to a bit above Zeta Pass a total mess, soft with both bare booters and snowshoers postholing

I believe I am one of the postholers with snowshoes, which I did at least a half dozen times coming down on Carter-Moriah from Hight. I wore mine the the entire day from the Dome to Hight to So. Carter and down Carter Dome trail (I believe I passed Mohamed on his way up as I had my shoes on going down) to 19 Mile Brook Trail then microspikes.

I'm a tad larger than the average hiker and without snowshoes conditions like the last few days don't work for me without them. Tried Wildcat A from Carter Notch with spikes, 20 steps and 10 postholes. Tried again with snowshoes still quite a few postholes but NEVER would have got up and back without them, even though I passed a lighter gentleman who had been up and back without them with seemingly little trouble.

So for me they are a necessity.

 

[Tim Seaver]

The Thin White Line

Almost forgot to post the Badge of Honor for any potential recipients out there this year: