Snowshoes or crampons

[Toe Cozy]

Yet more questions...

I'm curious to hear what most of you started your winter hiking with...snowshoes, crampons, both, nothing? Any suggestions for which is better? I know it will depend on what I'm hiking, so to give an idea: I will probably be doing many hikes in Vermont, most of which are below 4K, more moderate and protected. Things like Ascutney (which is only 30 minutes away), Hamilton Falls, parts of the LT below Middlebury Gap. I'm sure I'll also be convinced to go on a few 4K hikes and I'll probably like it and want to do more of that. I guess it will make more sense for me to get snowshoes to start with as long as they have good traction/crampons on them.

I assume that many of you now own, carry and use both. But you probably started with one or the other. I'm curious as to what people first started with and how that worked or didn't work in various hiking situations. Thanks!

TCo.

 

[sli74]

I own, carry and have used both . . .

I started with snowshoes but for what I hiked most of the time, which were either 4Ks in NY and NH or smaller, very well travelled mountains in NY and NH, I have found crampons more useful. Unless I am hiking something after a big dumping of snow, the trails are usually packed out and that causes icy spots and I am easily scared by ice so crampons tend to be more helpful. Also I usually tend to go backcountry skiing after a big snow storm so the snowshoes rarely get used though they get carried almost everytime and have been indispensible in the past . . .

Take what you will from that . . . BTW, I will email you info on the hikes this coming weekend when I get a moment tonight. TTYL,

sli74

 

[Bolivia]

Snowshoes

For the use you mention, go with 'shoes (at least, for starters). You likely won't need crampons for that kind of use and can always get them later as your need change.

I own two pair of wood/neoprene 'shoes but don't own crampons. I've been 'shoeing in VT, NH and CT for years (no high peaks) and have never been restricted because I only had 'shoes.

Will be going out to VT in Jan and either VT or NH in Feb with some friends and eash of us only uses 'shoes.

Yet more questions...

I'm curious to hear what most of you started your winter hiking with...snowshoes, crampons, both, nothing? Any suggestions for which is better? I know it will depend on what I'm hiking, so to give an idea: I will probably be doing many hikes in Vermont, most of which are below 4K, more moderate and protected. Things like Ascutney (which is only 30 minutes away), Hamilton Falls, parts of the LT below Middlebury Gap. I'm sure I'll also be convinced to go on a few 4K hikes and I'll probably like it and want to do more of that. I guess it will make more sense for me to get snowshoes to start with as long as they have good traction/crampons on them.

I assume that many of you now own, carry and use both. But you probably started with one or the other. I'm curious as to what people first started with and how that worked or didn't work in various hiking situations. Thanks!

TCo.

 

[dundare]

An additional question, insteps or more points?

I am going to be doing Race,Everett, Alander and Monadnock, and some easier NH hikes this year (nothing above treeline). I have MSR Evo Ascents and Grivel 10 point crampons (havent used either yet). I went to the AMC winter workshop and they really stressed insteps as opposed to full crampons. Its my understanding grivel 10 pointers are somewhere in between (full crampons but not as big).

Can I use my G 10s with nonplastic boots like day hikers or a pac style boot?

Thanks

 

[cooperhill]

Its a tough call to say which to go with first - I use and carry both? I started with snowshoes (Tubbs with Bear Claw bindings) which I still have and use (although looking to switch maybe to MSRs). The snowshoes have pretty agressive crampons so they work well in most conditions but I have used crampons more often. Crampons tend to work better on steep uphill and downhill terrain. If the trail is packed out then using crampons is not a problem. If conditions permit, I find it easier to travel in crampons (or bareboot if possible).

Bottom line, I always carry snowshoes but I use crampons more often. Watch the weather and check trail conditions on the VVFT trail conditions section.

Maybe try and rent snowshoes first (or crampons) and see how they work out. I would also put in a plug for the Green Mountain Club's snowshoe festival - vendors from many different companies come out - and its a great (and cheap) way to try out snowshoeing and different 'shoes.

Green Mountain Club Snowshoe Festival

 

[TCD]

I have and use both, in several varieties. I'm with Bolivia; for your applications, snowshoes are the best tool. A couple reasons:

>A snowshoe with a good claw / crampon binding on it will manage just about any trail, even a very icy trail. It's rare that you really need the security of a full crampon;

>Also, at least in NY, if there's more than a certain amount of snow, you're required by regs to use skis or snowshoes, even if the trail seems firmly packed. Don't know the rules in other places.

Of course, crampons are great, and it's great to have them on, on steeply sloped ice. Full crampons don't cost or weigh as much as snowshoes, and it's worth it to have them and carry them in case you encounter the rare section of trail with really bad ice. (Remember, if the trail is a long steep stretch of ice, you should have a plan in the event you fall. Sloping ice is the same as vertical rock in the summer; if you fall, you'll pick up speed in a hurry, and you can get hurt if you run into something.)

BTW, I've never had much use for insteps. The slight weight savings, for me at least, doesn't justify the reduced performance vs. full crampons, and you have to "walk funny" to keep the points in the ice.

Have fun!

TCD

 

[Nadine]

Both, they each have their own special terrain. If I were to only pick one starting out though, it would be snowshoes. More versitility. Atlas and Tubbs both make a middle of the road quality snowshoe for around 100 bucks. Shop the sales.

nadine

 

[John S]

I started with snowshoes last year and it worked out fine since we had some big early snowfalls, even here in CT. Still, I got crampons by January and carried and used both throughout the winter. I even needed both as late as the end of April on a trip to the Carters.

For related good info, click Crampons or snowshoes? Crampon position andCrampons redux for threads on this topic started by MadRiver last December and January.

 

[Warren]

Started with snowshoes, then bought insteps, then crampons. Depending on where and when I'll bring 1-2 of them.

Snowshoes (w/ aggressive crampon): most versatile, general purpose, but they tend to be the more expensive of the three. Only snowshoes offer floatation.

Insteps: Light, inexpensive, good for the early season times when there's not enough snow or ice.

Crampons: Much more secure than snowshoe on ice, much less scary on steep ice than a snowshoe. Can very well trip you up when there is enough snow and ice to slippery but not enough to cover the rocks

 

[Neil]

Speaking of snowshoes and crampons, which snowshoes, in your humble opinion, have the most agressive crampons and is that what one wants in the ADK HPR. Excuse me Toe Cozy for the partial hijack of your thread!

 

[sardog1]

FWIW -- Even though NH does not formally require snowshoes, there have been indications that the fine-levying folks at Fish & Game will look askance at someone who ventures into the mountains without them and then has to be found and hauled out after a big (or even not so big) dump.

Can't recall any efforts, actual or implied, to fine any non-crampon-wearing hikers after a rescue. Of course, a potential fine for failure to have crampons when needed might be the least of one's worries in that scenario .......

 

[sli74]

I own a pair of Atlas 1022 (my first pair of snowshoes) and last winter bought during a GREAT sale a pair of MSR Denali Ascents . . .

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE my Denali Ascents, they are light and have VERY aggresive crampons (and that is saying a lot for someone so afraid of ice) and I got the tails for free which just means that I can use them in very deep snow when the conditions warrant it . . .

If renting is not something you are going to do and If I had to suggest snowshoes and crampons (based on my personal experience, don't shoot me if they don't work for you ) . . .

I'd say get a pair of MSR Denali Ascents and a pair of Grivel G-12 crampons (though most folks prefer the G-10s) . . . just my personal preference . . .

Hey T. Co . . . I am getting excited now . . . told you that you'd be hooked

sli74

 

[Toe Cozy]

Speaking of snowshoes and crampons, which snowshoes, in your humble opinion, have the most agressive crampons and is that what one wants in the ADK HPR. Excuse me Toe Cozy for the partial hijack of your thread!

Ahhhhh! Ye Gads, me thread, 'tis been hijacked!

No worries! An excellent question to throw in here and I'm eagerly awaiting the answer! In the little poking around I've done today I read good things about the MSR Denali Ascents or EVO ascents, both here and at BackpackGearTest site.

 

[Toe Cozy]

Hey T. Co . . . I am getting excited now . . . told you that you'd be hooked

sli74

No kidding! I bought some new boots for winter today. My greatest happiness is that they will be big enough to fit a liner sock and a thick pair of hiking socks. I really didn't want to get new boots, but my women's size 11 Vasque boots couldn't fit cozy socks or toe warmers, my feets are too big and they took up all the room. Now, my toe's will be cozy! Heeheehe

T.Co.

 

[Remix]

Just speaking from experience, I would not start with base model snowshoes...

I began with atlas 725 series, had a slip on some heavy mushy snow, not even a real hill, just a heavy pack.

I got a temporary injury to the tendon that attaches to the bone in back of the ankle. They put me on Vioxx.

So, as you can see, one thing leads to another.

YMMV

Bill

 

[Warren]

An "agressive crampon" (actually cleat may be a better term than crampon) would be one that has prominent teeth providing a lot of grip on ice or compacted snow. Some snowshoes, intended for running or day use would have teeth that are much less grippy. The MSR ascents are shoes that I would say as having agressive cleats. More important to consider when looking at shoes from a company offering range of models as there will usually be a model or two with less prominent teeth.

 

[Rik]

I use my snowshoes much more than crampons but carry both.

 

[snowshoe]

If you can afford it I would get Crampons and Snowshoes. If you can not afford both then go with the snowshoes. I seem to use my snowshoes a lot more. As for what snowshoe has the best crampon, I would agree with Sli the MSR. I have been using them since they came out. They never failed me on steep climbs.

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

What I have found nice about MSR Denali Ascents is that the cleats are arranged in two parallel lengthwise rows (so they perform well going both uphill and sidehill on packed snow and ice), but are not long like the cleats on many competitor models (so tend not to drag).

The past weekend on the Willey Range and Twins-Garfield traverses, I used an old pair of Stabilicers (tradename, but not sure of the spelling), which are ideal for mixed rock, packed snow, and especially thin ice, where snowshoes and conventional crampons do not work well. Because Stabilicers extend the length of the entire boot, they work better than instep crampons; these things are essentially a few sheet metal screws embedded in pieces of automobile tire, with vecro straps for lashing to the boot. I am told that when the heads of the screws get worn out by abrasion on rock, you simply replace the screws. Frodo wore instep crampons with me on the Twins-Garfield traverse and thought that my Stabilicers were the better ticket for these early season conditions.

Finally, if you can afford or desire to carry only one boot accessory later in the season, snowshoes with good cleats can get you up about anything on hard pack snow and ice, short of gullies in Hungtington Ravine and the like. In contrast, crampons are not going to help much when you begin post-holing up to your crotch those last few hundred feet of unbroken snow (I can dream of big snowfalls this coming winter!) short of the summit or on a life-threatening bushwhack when you lose the trail. If you do carry crampons, make sure that they are matched well with your boots, with hinged-type crampons being the more versatile for non-stiff-soled boots.

 

[carla]

Try before you buy!

If you're going to be doing winter stuff, I'd recommend that you at least rent the gear first and see if you like it. It can be an expensive sport!

I now have plastic mountaineering boots, full crampons, and am about to try instep crampons. Never did buy snowshoes. I wish I had waited on the plastic boots--got them about 6 years ago--because the ones out today are so much lighter and flexible/comfortable.

I'm an iffy winter hiker...I do it if I "have to" but I find it really grueling. I'm a pretty small person (5 foot 4, 120 lbs) and I find the weight of all the extra gear and clothes (which you DO need) really weigh me down.

Still, I've had some great winter hikes, both in NH 4000 footers, out West, and even Mt. Blanc in France.