Exactly. In mid-February this past winter, in eight days I did not find any unbroken trails until I bumped into Bob and Gerry on top of Liberty for our traverse to Flume.
Solo Peakbagging %s
- Thread starter blacknblue
- Start date
Help Support vftt.org:
Exactly. In mid-February this past winter, in eight days I did not find any unbroken trails until I bumped into Bob and Gerry on top of Liberty for our traverse to Flume.
RoySwkr
New member
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2003
- Messages
- 4,467
- Reaction score
- 285
Wrong analogy. You cannot count a hike on the Crawford Path as a bushwhack because somebody cut a trail there, and you can't count it as solo if you meet somebody along the way and hike it with them.
What help should you be allowed on a "solo" hike? Broken trail? Calling friend on cell phone to ask advice? Rescue party following half a mile behind in case you run into trouble?
The "prestige" of a solo hike is because it's supposed to be difficult, and it's unfair to water down the requirements and then expect the same prestige. Kind of like the guy in the Catskills a couple years ago who used a previously-placed cache on his "unsupported" hike.
blacknblue
Active member
Well put. Since I plan on never asking an organization for a badge, plaque, or recognition for my hiking 'accomplishments', it makes it easier to draw such lines. In my mind, a winter solo hike is a hike in which I had no companionship and no assistance on trail. The fact that someone may have broken trail before me kind of goes without saying these days, especially on the NH4Ks. I don't look at my log of winter solo peaks and reflexively think of them as trailbreaking or bushwhacks, just that I drove myself to and from the trailhead, hiked from and to my own car, was alone for the day (with the exception of passing hikers), and relied wholly on myself, while going up and down a well-used trail.
The closest I've come to Dr. D's Liberty/Flume dilemma was a planned hike up Monroe and Washington via the Ammo. En route, I caught up to two esteemed VFTTers who had broken trail to that point. After a chat, I broke trail to treeline, at which point we separated and made our own ways to Washington, several hundred yards apart, though usually in sight. We caught up to each other again on Monroe, and they talked me into doing Ike and Pierce (they had a car spotted at Crawford Notch). I considered that I had done Washington and Monroe solo (since I would have done that anyway), and Ike and Pierce with company (since I took them up on driving me back to the Cog where my car was, and we traveled as a group from Monroe to Crawford).
I really don't have any input on the dog issue, since I don't hike with one (unless a friend brings one). It certainly changes the complexion of the hike, but I don't really think of it as supported either. As long as the dog isn't postholing while talking on his cell phone...
JohnL
New member
That would be your opinion unless there is a written and sanctioned document outlining the exact requirements for a solo hike.
Okay, so I'll play along. Here are some questions that would need to be answered so people know what the detailed requirements would be.
1. If I hike up a trail in the afternoon that a trail crew had cleared of significant blowdowns in the morning and they left by another side trail so I did not see them or any other hikers throughout the hike, is that not a solo hike since they made it easier for me?
2. Several winters ago I hiked up Liberty and Flume, saw no one all day, and broke trail through 4 to 8 inches of newly fallen snow that was inside the 'trench' that some person or persons had broken out perhaps weeks before my hike. I considered it a solo hike. Would you?
3. If the answer to 2 is Yes, then how much snow needs to fall on a broken out trail in order for it to be deemed as a virgin trail again?
4. If the answer to 2 is No, then the only person who can truly do a solo hike in the winter is the first person to walk through the snow that winter, right?
5. If I hike alone up a summer trail and catch up with a stranger, walk along behind him/her for 100 yards before I take a side trail and I see no other people all day, is that a solo hike?
6. Same question as 5 but I meet a friend, I stop to talk to them and continue walking and talking with them for the 100 yards to the side trail, part ways, and I see no one the rest of the day, is that a solo hike?
7. What exactly do you mean by the 'prestige' of a solo hike? Are there incidents that make one solo hike more prestigous than another?
I have more but I'll let it go at this. At least for now.
JohnL
RoySwkr
New member
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2003
- Messages
- 4,467
- Reaction score
- 285
It used to be impossible to break out trails solo because with nobody having been up for months the snow was just too deep. Now even if you are first after a snowstorm it was probably broken out after the previous storm so you have some sort of base. So if breaking a trail solo is part of the game I'll venture to say that nobody has ever done the NH 4k solo in winter.
I would say that extended interaction with others keeps a trip from being solo, so if you trade off breaking for a mile that's no good. This leads to the peculiar result that you could have taken a long rest break and let them break out the whole way - obviously easier for you but it keeps your interaction down. Of course you could have asked _them_ to take the long rest and done all the breaking yourself
While a dog may be able to help you in rare cases, probably it is a net loss of your energy dealing with dog issues on a hike. So it's harder than solo, but I decline to take a position on whether it _is_ solo.
RoySwkr
New member
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2003
- Messages
- 4,467
- Reaction score
- 285
I would say that if you are doing a trail hike it makes no difference how recently it was cleared
Probably, unless solo hikes are defined to require more trailbreaking
Obviously some hikes, solo or not, are considered more "prestigious" than others - if somebody did a winter Presidential traverse with a buddy I would consider that a greater accomplishment that climbing Artists Bluff alone in July.
Apparently some people feel that solo hiking should be recognized differently than hiking in a group, but if they consider it "better" then what are the distinguishing characteristics that make it so? For instance, one thing that made winter hiking with my sister easier than hiking alone is that she did half the driving so I got an extra 2 hours sleep per day, but surely there would be a howl if to qualify as a solo hike you had to drive up by yourself.
It used to be impossible to break out trails solo because with nobody having been up for months the snow was just too deep. Now even if you are first after a snowstorm it was probably broken out after the previous storm so you have some sort of base. So if breaking a trail solo is part of the game I'll venture to say that nobody has ever done the NH 4k solo in winter.
I would say that extended interaction with others keeps a trip from being solo, so if you trade off breaking for a mile that's no good. This leads to the peculiar result that you could have taken a long rest break and let them break out the whole way - obviously easier for you but it keeps your interaction down. Of course you could have asked _them_ to take the long rest and done all the breaking yourself
I agree entirely. Funny that you should make that last suggestion, as after chatting with Bob and Gerry only briefly north of Liberty, I took off ahead of them, hoping to stay ahead breaking out the trail all the way to Flume. But, I stupidly missed the trail just south of Liberty (doh, I only have been on that trail over a dozen times in the winter), so they caught up with me, hence we traded off the breaking the rest of the way, and I knew that my solo unassisted winter 4s quest was over.
This is the part that I define as "assisted" (i.e., I was not allowed to take any assistance with car spots for long traverses, etc., on my winter "solo unassisted" winter NH4s attempt, which makes the Presi peaks much more time consuming).
DougPaul
Well-known member
A dog may not offer much/any physical help, but it may make one feel more comfortable and thus willing to do something that one would not do without.
Doug
Hey, what about the dog that kept his three nitwit humans alive after they dragged him over a cliff on Mount Hood in a white out a couple of winters ago (yes, the dog was roped up, speaking of inhumane)? I think that there is a thread here somewhere about that one.
Elizabeth
New member
"Prestige"
I am intrigued that hiking solo is considered by some to be associated with "prestige." I choose to hike alone (or, more recently, with dogs) because my lousy lung-capacity doesn't allow me to keep up with most of my hiking friends. I thought that made me a wimp. In winter, some might call it bad judgement. I can live with that. But now I am wondering if it instead entitles me to bragging rights!
I am intrigued that hiking solo is considered by some to be associated with "prestige." I choose to hike alone (or, more recently, with dogs) because my lousy lung-capacity doesn't allow me to keep up with most of my hiking friends. I thought that made me a wimp. In winter, some might call it bad judgement. I can live with that. But now I am wondering if it instead entitles me to bragging rights!
Raven
Well-known member
We've danced around an important point I think when it comes to mountains in general. The fact of the matter is that hiking the W48 (or others) is simply not as challenging as it was 10, 20, or 30 years ago. As more people come to the moutains, more trails are broken out regularly and access gets generally better over the years. No one will ever hike them solo if it's a case of not being able to run into someone else while you're out there.
I think each person's combined experiences while hiking the mountains on a list or accomplishment are unique and although in general I think the accomplishment is easier now (certainly not easy) than when chances were that no trail was broken, we know how any given day can go...
As an example, I set out towards Owls' solo last winter fully expecting to just break a few miles out and scout the first half for a return trip with tent later. Due to 17 trailbreakers ahead of me, it turned out to be an easy winter trip and I went to the top. Do I count it as solo? Good Q. Did I hike the whole day alone? Yes, other than a few brief words of thanks when I caught the group. Did I do all the work myself? No way.
Incidentally, to answer the initial thread question, I doubt many who have hiked the lists have done them 100% solo without that as a specific goal. I would think many, many hikers have done more than half solo or some large percentage of them solo for reasons already stated. 44 of my 48 were solo, not by design, but I'll probably tag the other 4 at some point solo just to do it. I've done 37/47 in winter solo. Solo being defined as leaving and finishing alone without hiking with comapanions for any length of time.
Chip
Well-known member
7. What exactly do you mean by the 'prestige' of a solo hike? Are there incidents that make one solo hike more prestigous than another?
JohnL
I'm not sure "prestige" is the right word, but it's probably as good as any. I suppose it'd be nice if there was an accepted scale and we could grade our hikes and climbs, like getting out of bed in the morning is a 1 and free soloing El Cap is a 100, with everything else in between. A winter solo hike of Franconia Ridge might be a 25 and with a partner a 20, as it's generally accepted solo is a bit riskier. Higher grade = more "prestige". An incident that might make one solo hike more prestigous than another would have to do with conditions, trail, distance, etc.
Chip
Well-known member
Ed'n Lauky
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2007
- Messages
- 1,802
- Reaction score
- 168
chinooktrail
Active member
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2004
- Messages
- 981
- Reaction score
- 165
Geneva likes to Woof on her cell phone while postholing and updating her facebook page. But she carries her own food, water and power bones. We don't actually have any conversations, so am I hiking solo with my dog, or does it not count because she is studying to be an electrical engineer?
Well, someone has to support me in my old age!
Well, someone has to support me in my old age!
Adk_dib
New member
I solo mastly becasue I can come and go when I want. If you plan a trip with someone and it is pouring rain all weekend you have to show up. If it is nice I simply get up and go.
ALGonquin Bob
Well-known member
I'm about 50% solo, even in Winter. If we start a "pole", would that be the North Pole?
Similar threads
