Stabilicer Quality Concerns

[CaptCaper]

An outfit of that size is quite unlikely to be fooled by counterfeits--they know whom they're buying from. So just chalk my suspiciousness up to an occupational hazard.

This is a fact. Lot's of crap counterfit stuff coming out of China. Just ask the Seiko guys at the Seiko fourm..for one. They call them Feiko's. Not to mention hardware with false grade ratings...

Buyer beware..

 

[shadowcat]

Good Info

I got Stabilizers about a yr ago and just got to use them this year a bit. First, I really do like them for those days when crampons are overkill and snowshoes aren't necessary. And I luv the fact I don't have to worry about jabbing a crampon into my pant legs! And they are pretty comfortable to wear on all terrain vs crampons you may have to take on and off. Mine do have the Vibram sole and so far I've had no problems with any loose screws. (altho I've been told I personnally have a few!) I got a bag of xtra screws when I purchased them just in case but I will take a check after hiking to tighten as I hadn't thought of that. Speaking of feikos etc. I shop on ebay a lot and man, talk about having to watch for fakes! You can't really blame foreigners (Tokoyo, Korea, Malaysia, etc) for taking advantage of our buying frenzies and they have become a cagey sort. At first you could see that it was being shipped from China but now it could be an Asian in Rotterdam buying Far Eastern goods and selling on Ebay. Canada is another and goods from Australia. Designer goods are a huge market; whether you are talking designer fashion or athletic gear. Anything is up for grabs. All I can offer up is ask questions and return anything you think is crap. And if the seller (Ebay or any online store) misleads you or "pretends" they got a bad lot, etc; make them cover the shipping costs to return it and refund your original. Unless YOU make it financially unsound for them to sell crappy foreign goods they have no reason to do otherwise. (please note not all foreign goods are crap. I just want to know what it is I am buying so I can decide beforehand if that's the way I want to go)

 

[CaptCaper]

I got Stabilizers about a yr ago and just got to use them this year a bit. First, I really do like them for those days when crampons are overkill and snowshoes aren't necessary. And I luv the fact I don't have to worry about jabbing a crampon into my pant legs! And they are pretty comfortable to wear on all terrain vs crampons you may have to take on and off. Mine do have the Vibram sole and so far I've had no problems with any loose screws. (altho I've been told I personnally have a few!) I got a bag of xtra screws when I purchased them just in case but I will take a check after hiking to tighten as I hadn't thought of that. Speaking of feikos etc. I shop on ebay a lot and man, talk about having to watch for fakes! You can't really blame foreigners (Tokoyo, Korea, Malaysia, etc) for taking advantage of our buying frenzies and they have become a cagey sort. At first you could see that it was being shipped from China but now it could be an Asian in Rotterdam buying Far Eastern goods and selling on Ebay. Canada is another and goods from Australia. Designer goods are a huge market; whether you are talking designer fashion or athletic gear. Anything is up for grabs. All I can offer up is ask questions and return anything you think is crap. And if the seller (Ebay or any online store) misleads you or "pretends" they got a bad lot, etc; make them cover the shipping costs to return it and refund your original. Unless YOU make it financially unsound for them to sell crappy foreign goods they have no reason to do otherwise. (please note not all foreign goods are crap. I just want to know what it is I am buying so I can decide beforehand if that's the way I want to go)

Well put..

I got mine at Lahouts in Littleton center this past winter. They have Vibram's.

 

[MattC]

I think I may get the prize for most screws loose. I just tried a new pair today descending Panther Mt. in the Catskills. A couple of inches of snow, probably less than four miles of walking. One of the things lost every one of the 17 cleats, the other managed to hold onto 6 of 17. So 28 cleats lost over 4 miles; the average is 7 cleats lost per mile!

I also did not know that you are supposed to tighten the cleats before the first use. Perhaps most or all of the cleats on my pair were very loose; I admittedly did not check. But still, I have to think about this and decide if the things are really that necessary that I want to deal with tightening and replacing cleats. I like the idea of these things, but they seem really poorly designed. I may just say the hell with it and return them. Any gear that requires constant repair and maintenance is not good gear in my book. Also, how many of the cleats are now littering the backcountry now due to these things? I feel bad that I just "contributed" 28 of them to Panther Mt.

Anyway, I'm glad I found this thread. Oh, and btw, my are the newer ones that say "Stabilicer" on the sole rather than "Vibram", if anyone is still keeping score. I wonder, did the original poster or anyone else ever contact the manufacturer?

Matt

 

[Orsonab]

I have an older pair of Stabilicers (4 yrs?) and love them. I didn't notice screws coming loose till last winter. Tightened everything up and replaced a couple of lost ones with hex heads screws I got from the local hardware store. I tighten the screws every winter month and haven't noticed any subsequent loss. I would probably be tempted to try Shoe Goo if I started to lose them on a regular basis. Shoe Goo is good but you can force it apart if you really try so I think replacing screws would not be a problem.

I have also noticed that the sharper edge of my plastic boot soles was starting to cut away at the webbing of the Stabilicers. This was solved by (you guessed it) applying some duct tape as a protective covering. I replace the duct tape at the start of every season and have not had any subsequent wear.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I wore a brand-new pair (Vibram soles) from Galehead to Garfield and about half way down (6 miles maybe) on Saturday, mostly on snow and ice and a bit on rocks. 3 screws were a bit lose when I got back... a 9/32 socket and a twist and they are back. I noticed they don't really "lock down", so they are prone to backing out as well.

Tim

 

[Tim Seaver]

It's Screwloose Season!

The terrain at this time of the year is particularly hard on screws, whether they be Stabilicers or Screwboots of the homemade variety - especially if you are rock hopping between icy patches. I find that I lose a lot less per hike under full winter conditions.

 

[roadtripper]

In defense of stabilicers (i love the damn things), I've been using them for four years now and I am yet to lose one screw. I do have to re-tighten them at the beginning of every season, though.

 

[MattC]

Thanks for the continued input, everyone. I think I'll probably keep giving the things a chance. But this pair is definitely going back to EMS. If I can at least trade them back for a new pair, then I'll tighten up the cleats before the first use and see how it goes.

Matt

 

[Paradox]

Stabilicers come with a "hook and loop" strap to tighten across the instep. The rubber webbing on mine tore out on the first use over about 8 miles. Yep, "Made in China." No loose screws.

 

[MattC]

Okay, I exchanged my screwless ones for a new pair, and did some pre-tightening, as suggested by Una Dogger. I walked a few miles in them descending the Pine Bend Brook Trail off of North Tripyramid on Sunday and they performed well. Not a single screw came loose this time. There was consistent snow for a while, until the section of trail that descends off the ridge, out of the boreal forest and down through a ravine. There was a combo of snow, rock and a little ice all through there. Once off the steep section I removed the Stablicers, just a little before I reached the Sandwich Wilderness sign. I'll reserve final judgement until I use them again a few more times, but I'm happier with them than a week ago at least. Maybe my first pair was kind of a fluke.

Matt

 

[NewHampshire]

FWIW: Last Saturday I attempted Vose Spur with my sister, McRat and Steve. We all wore our stabilicers for the same amount of time (except Steve who had his off for a bit longer.) I lost 2 screws. My Sister lost none. McRat lost 7 (or possibly more), and I don't know if Steve lost any. My sister and I were wearing the "Made In China" pair, McRat had the older "Vibram" ones. So from this I take....it does not matter if they are Vibram or "Made In China", they are going to lose screws without some minor attention.

Brian

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

I have had mixed results with two pair of Stabilicers over the past few years, but just ordered some Katoola Microspikes, so will compare. Acquired my first pair of prototype Stabilicers about 15 year ago for working on lake ice in the Arctic, for which I think they are better suited.

 

[Tim Seaver]

There's a New Screw in Town

These aren't for Stabilicers per se, but may be of interest to screwboot fanatics.

On the left is a Kold Kutter motorcycle ice racing screw, the old standard for disciples of the 1st Church Of Screwbootery. In the middle is the required screw for ice racing in Canada, the "Super Trac" (made by Holiday), which is .283" tall, compared to the Kold Kutter at .191". On the right is the Super Trac screw with a piece of tungsten carbide silver soldered to it and ground to a point (a crude prototype). The shank of the Super Trac is .215" compared to the Kold Kutter at .165", which hopefully will translate into less screw loss. Oh the possibilities!

I just got the Super Trac screws yesterday, but I hope to make a full set of carbide-tipped screwboots soon and will give them a good thrashing to see if the tips hold up. Properly brazed silver soldered joints are stronger than the materials they join, so I am hoping this will work.

The Super Tracs are a little hard to find, I found them on Ebay through All Sport Performance

 

[Tim Seaver]

One more screwy idea and I'll shut up. OK, make that three

Stabilicers would seem to be an ideal platform to experiment with carbide tipped snowmobile racing studs like these, as you could install them from the top, through the sole of the Stabilicer, and thread a locknut on.

I am guessing that if the length of the threads and overall height were right, you would end up with a Hot-Rodded Stabilicer that gives awesome traction and durability with no possibility of stud loss.

Also, I just found a page on Trail Grabbers, which have small carbide chips and are shown on...Stabilicers! $1 each, though....ouch!

Another possible candidate is the Klymaxx Track Lug Stud. I couldn't resist...I ordered a set of the 3/4" ones and will report back next week

 

[kerry13]

I think I may get the prize for most screws loose. I just tried a new pair today descending Panther Mt. in the Catskills. A couple of inches of snow, probably less than four miles of walking. One of the things lost every one of the 17 cleats, the other managed to hold onto 6 of 17. So 28 cleats lost over 4 miles; the average is 7 cleats lost per mile!

Sorry you don't get the prize. I was with the guy Andrew was originally talking about. He lost 12 screws in less than a mile. His stabilizers were brand new the day before so it was a first time use. I have been using the Vibram Stabilizer for 4 years with hundreds of miles on them and a lot of that mileage is on very rocky terrain. I have never tightened them, until this week, and have never lost a screw. When I tightened them this week a quarter turn or less snugged them up.

We did notice that the good Vibram has an yellow oval Vibram label on the bottom whereas the cheap stabilizer has sort of a quarter moon yellow label that can be mistaken for the Vibram label if you are not paying attention. There is also a made in china stamp that is pressed into the base material, is black and very difficult to see. There is a noticeable weight difference too. The straps look the same on both pairs.

The guy who lost the 12 screws brought them back to EMS monday and got a refund, no questions asked.

 

[evilhanz]

Sorry you don't get the prize.

I can even beat that. On my first hike with a new pair of stabilicers, I lost 29 of 34 screws. That was even after pre-tightening them! Most of them were lost on the ascent, so I was not very happy coming down the mountain.

 

[Kevin]

Matt, Thanks for the heads up! I am hope the great customer service helped...

 

[kevinmac]

I hiked Cardigan a few weeks ago with new snow and ice on the trail. The stabilicers worked well on the trail going up. On the way down traction became worse. The next day I noticed that almost all of the screws came out. I recently contacted the manufacturer in Maine. This is their response:

"We at Stabilicers have run into a bit of a snag with the quality of our metal cleats that we use in our original Stabilicers. We have experienced a problem with the cleats coming out too easily under heavy use. If anyone has any problems with their cleats coming out on the first or second time of use please call 1-800-782-2423 and we will mail you out a fresh new pack of 50 cleats to replace the cleats in your product. The problem we found is the shank on the cleats is a bit too short and there are not enough threads on them as well.

We have identified the inventory that has the problem cleats in them and have corrected the problem on any shipments as of 11/26/2007.

We apologize for any problems this may have created. We intend to supply nothing but the best quality ice traction products available.
Sincerely,
Dan Theberge
32north Corporation
6 Arctic Circle
Biddeford, Maine 04005
1-800-782-2423

I received free replacement screws within 2 days of contacting them. Great customer service. Hope this helps.

 

[MattC]

I hiked Cardigan a few weeks ago with new snow and ice on the trail. The stabilicers worked well on the trail going up. On the way down traction became worse. The next day I noticed that almost all of the screws came out. I recently contacted the manufacturer in Maine. This is their response:

"We at Stabilicers have run into a bit of a snag with the quality of our metal cleats that we use in our original Stabilicers. We have experienced a problem with the cleats coming out too easily under heavy use. If anyone has any problems with their cleats coming out on the first or second time of use please call 1-800-782-2423 and we will mail you out a fresh new pack of 50 cleats to replace the cleats in your product. The problem we found is the shank on the cleats is a bit too short and there are not enough threads on them as well.

We have identified the inventory that has the problem cleats in them and have corrected the problem on any shipments as of 11/26/2007.

We apologize for any problems this may have created. We intend to supply nothing but the best quality ice traction products available.
Sincerely,
Dan Theberge
32north Corporation
6 Arctic Circle
Biddeford, Maine 04005
1-800-782-2423

I received free replacement screws within 2 days of contacting them. Great customer service. Hope this helps.

Thanks very much for posting. This really clarifies the problem and restores my confidence in the manufacturer.

Matt