Take Care in Hiring Guides

[erugs]

Even assumed reputable companies might not be completely transparent. Be aware!!!



Buffalo National River (AR)
Leader Of Bigfoot Expedition Cited For Permit Violation

On February 24th, rangers received information from a concessionaire who reported that there were visitors in the park who were on a "Bigfoot hunting expedition." Rangers Billy Bell and Ben Henthorne proceeded to the Steel Creek Campground to investigate. After questioning numerous people associated with the group, they discovered that approximately 30 people had paid Matt Pruitt, who is affiliated with The Bigfoot Field Researcher's Organization, to lead them on a hunt for the creature. Several participants said that they had paid $300 to $500 each to be lead on a three- day expedition. Pruitt was cited for a violation of the regulation on engaging in a business without a permit or written agreement (36 CFR 5.3). Paid activities that do not have commercial use authorizations or special use permits appear to be on the increase on a nationwide basis and need to be on the radar of all park staff to insure that only sanctioned and permitted activities are conducted in the parks.
[Submitted by Karen L Bradford, Chief Ranger]

 

[Billy]

Is this story from The Onion?

 

[erugs]

Sorry, I should have credited the source. It is from the National Park Service's Morning Report. I just looked at it a little while ago and thought I'd post the info here.

 

[David Metsky]

Even assumed reputable companies might not be completely transparent. Be aware!!!

This was an expedition to look for Bigfoot - I'm not sure reputable is the first word that comes to mind.

 

[Chip]

I've been on guided hikes/climbs 3 times. While we achieved our objectives in all 3, I did feel 2 of the guides were deficient in winter white-out conditions with no tracked GPS route. We played some "find the route" games that weren't necessary and fortunately didn't get dangerous.

 

[erugs]

This was an expedition to look for Bigfoot - I'm not sure reputable is the first word that comes to mind.

True, Dave. Just trying to make a joke. Should have used a

 

[erugs]

My nephew's former girlfriend was a guide and she took offense to my off-hand comment that I haven't had great experience with guides. She worked as a guide in Alaska taking people on sled dog trips, and from an essay of hers that was published last year in Apalachia, I would say she was probably a wonderful guide. My guides on Kilimanjaro were wonderful. My guide on Mt. Hood was wonderful. My guide on the Grand Tetons was wonderful. But otherwise, it seems to me that I have been out of place with a few groups even though we stated ahead of time what our experiences and expectations were. I think that falls back to the economy and guide companys needing every paying customer they can get and not picking good customer teams based on the needs of the customer. Need to turn someone around? Well, they do it on trips to say, Everest, all the time. This thread may head that way, but my original intent was not to discuss guides so much as to point out the folly we might find if not paying attention or if we are ready to reach for lore.

I may be asking about guides to look for or away from for Nepal in the future...we'll see how the money situation holds up.

 

[DougPaul]

This report only says that the leader of this expedition violated park rules. It does not say that he is a guide or that he conducted any unsafe activities.

There are certification agencies for guides in many countries (including the US: American Mountain Guides Association (AMGA), http://amga.com/). Certification guarantees that the prospective guide has demonstrated proficiency at certain skills. Many guides work out of agencies or companies.

See also: International Federation of Mountain Guides Associations (IFMGA) http://www.ivbv.info/en/

Doug

 

[Red Oak]

I've been on guided hikes/climbs 3 times. While we achieved our objectives in all 3

Thats cool chip you got your objectives but you did not get to see bigfoot did ya!

 

[walker]

Is this story from The Onion?

The story is from National Parks Service Morning report for Friday March 23, 2012

 

[RoySwkr]

But otherwise, it seems to me that I have been out of place with a few groups even though we stated ahead of time what our experiences and expectations were.

My mother had such a bad experience on one of her few guided expeditions that she never went on another. One of the other participants on the trip who frequently went on guided trips had this advice - "They will run the trip their way no matter what they say because that's how they know to do it best."

So you need to find a guide that their way is your way. Instead of asking "will you do X if Y?" ask "what will you do if Y?"

The leader in the base note was not necessarily a bad guide (at least not if he found Bigfoot he was just violating Park rules regarding paperwork which may be of more concern to them than you. Someone without a permit may be a skilled leader yet be lacking rapport with park staff.

 

[walker]

Not Looking in the Right Spot

Bigfoot IS REAL. I know. I saw it on the Internet!!!

Bigfoot does roam these part. Here's the proof

Walker

Bigfoot is a trained professional. Please do not try this at home. This should only be done by a trained professional.

 

[sardog1]

Ayuh: Mushing Mess: Rescue in White Mountains raises questions about “guided” mushing trip (You'll have to read at least part to find out which White Mountains.)

 

[erugs]

Yep, sardog, that's the type of guided trip I am warning of. We have a friend in Maine and he has been known to head up similar trips. Like a paddling adventure with water at a 50 year low, too low to paddle much of it. And then our stock up town that was being evacuated because of forest fire. (Back on the river a day earlier we guessed there might be a problem when ash covered us.) Bet some here have heard of this kid's trips. Any other stories?

 

[Kevin Rooney]

I remember watching a pseudo-documentary several years ago about the original bigfoot sighting in the Pacific NW. Did anyone else see it? IIRC, apparently the fellow who dreamed up the scam had sworn his partners in crime to secrecy, and that they couldn't reveal the hoax until after he died. Well, he finally did, and they were at liberty to discuss it. It was great fun watching them explain how they managed to pull off the 'sightings' in a somewhat plausible fashion.

 

[Maddy]

Ayuh: Mushing Mess: Rescue in White Mountains raises questions about “guided” mushing trip (You'll have to read at least part to find out which White Mountains.)

What a mess.

 

[Chip]

Thats cool chip you got your objectives but you did not get to see bigfoot did ya!

Not sure. On Rainier I often had this feeling there was some sort of strange creature just behind me;

I think that falls back to the economy and guide companys needing every paying customer they can get and not picking good customer teams based on the needs of the customer.

I agree with this. Unless you're picking a more difficult route and/or filling the group yourself, you take what you get.

 

[skiguy]

There are certification agencies for guides in many countries (including the US: American Mountain Guides Association (AMGA), http://amga.com/). Certification guarantees that the prospective guide has demonstrated proficiency at certain skills. Many guides work out of agencies or companies.

Doug

Collecting Badges is one thing. Real time experience and lots of it is another. Personally the latter speaks more to a personal giudes profienciency IMO. I know and are acquainted with numerous guides. Some of them for over thirty years which predates any Certifications. Not to belittle AMG/IMGA or any other guiding certs but IMO it is not the last word as far as profiency. There is a wide array of experience as far as guides go. Look for the one that best serves your needs and do extensive research. My best suggestion when hiring a guide is to get a list of refrences and actually talk with the refrences that have physically used your prospective guide on the same trip you are planning.

 

[TomD]

This was an expedition to look for Bigfoot - I'm not sure reputable is the first word that comes to mind.

Dave has got that right. Maybe I'll start advertising a Yeti hunting expedition, way more legit. I wonder what this guy's resume looks like.

 

[TomD]

What a mess.

Good grief! I mean, I'm up for a bit of adventure and I like dogs, but other than seeing 8 Below and some other sled dog movie on TV, (Snow Dogs), I wouldn't have a clue what to do with them. I used to be a scuba instructor, so I know what it's like to deal with newbies, but this is just plain ridiculous on the part of everyone involved. Rule #1, you don't leave anyone behind, no matter what.

This sounds a bit like that debacle in the PNW a couple of years ago when a MeetUp group went on a beginner snow camping trip. The trip leader (not a guide) didn't check the weather report and they got stranded in an epic snowstorm with inadequate gear-no snowshoes or skis for one. Everyone got back after a massive SAR effort, but a day or two more and it could have been really bad.