Taking The GPS Plunge w/ GPSMAP 62s- Have Many Questions

[DayTrip]

I have finally decided to purchase a GPS Unit for hiking and from what I have read on VFTT, Amazon reviews and other sites there is much to not like about even the "best" of units. I think I have accumulated enough basic info to know what features I do and don't want so I'm down to the below specific questions. I'm pretty sure I am going to get the Garmin GPSMAP 62s unit so if anyone is using this model and can provide any feedback it would be greatly appreciated. I have ZERO experience using a GPS unit.

1) Anyone using this exact model? Would appreciate feedback from an actual user on what's to like, not like.

2) Can you download/purchase a map of NH with the actual trails already on it, i.e. can I get a map for my unit that is just like the maps that come with the AMC White Mountain Guide? I have already downloaded Base Camp and found free map files on various sites (and for the most part resolution is fine - at least on my computer screen) but they don't have the actual trails. 99% of my hiking is in the White Mountains so that would be the only real map of interest to me.

3) What is the best way to purchase maps? Sounds like a horror show for many people. Downloading to BaseCamp but then it doesn't export to device, purchase on Micro SD card but they're tied to SN so you can't use in software or another device, etc, etc.

4) Sounds like updating firmware is a common task. Is it hard/difficult to do? Not a real "tech guy". Will I be banging my head against the desk trying to figure it out?

5) Lot of the negative feedback for this and other devices is Garmin's horrible manuals, lousy customer service and unintuitive interface. Has anyone been on any 3rd party websites, read any 3rd party how-to books, etc that would be helpful to someone who has never used a GPS device before? Obviously I'll have to mess around with it on some test runs but anything that saves time and reduces the learning curve would be helpful.

Any feedback or info would be greatly appreciated. Fairly expensive investment so I want to be as sure as I can that I'm making an informed decision. Thanks.

 

[DougPaul]

1) Anyone using this exact model? Would appreciate feedback from an actual user on what's to like, not like.

I've used a 60CSx for a number of years and recently picked up a 62s. I think I still prefer the 60CSx, but the 62s is a good unit. (There are advantages and disadvantages to both units.) The 60CSx is discontinued (but may be available used) and of the current units I'd choose the 62s or the 62st. (The 62st includes US Topo 2008 (100K scale) in 429 segments*.)

* The DVD version of US Topo 2008 has ~6600 segments and the microSD card and downloadable versions have ~450.

The 60CSx, when introduced, set the standard for hiking GPSes--in particular it had adequate sensitivity to maintain a good lock under trees and in other degraded environments (eg narrow valleys). For many of us, it is still the standard to which other GPSes are compared. (IMO, there is nothing so compelling in the newer units that one "needs" to upgrade.)

62s:
* more total map segments (~4000) (including any internal maps on the 62st)
* can take larger memory cards (reportely up to 32GB)
* no external power during normal operation. (External power throws the unit into computer interface mode.) (The 78s is very similar but I believe it can take external power.)
* 3D magnetic compass
* profiles
* 200 saved tracks
* I dislike the default user interface and spent a lot of time customizing it to look much more like the 60CSx. It is now OK.

60CSx:
* fewer map segments: 2025
* memory cards up to 4GB, 16GB reported ok
* can use external power during normal operation
* 2D magnetic compass
* no profiles
* 20 saved tracks
* better user interface

Note: one usually runs out of map segments before running out of space on the larger microSD cards. Thus the same map in fewer segments is preferable.

2) Can you download/purchase a map of NH with the actual trails already on it, i.e. can I get a map for my unit that is just like the maps that come with the AMC White Mountain Guide? I have already downloaded Base Camp and found free map files on various sites (and for the most part resolution is fine - at least on my computer screen) but they don't have the actual trails. 99% of my hiking is in the White Mountains so that would be the only real map of interest to me.

Not as far as I know--the trails are from the USGS topos and are of varying accuracy. Professional GPS tracks for most WMNF trails are available: see http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?38643-WMNF-GIS-trails-data-GPX. (These tracks can be plotted on both your computer and GPS.)

BTW, the free maps are of varying quality. Garmin offers 100K and 24K topos generally of better quality. (Most free topos are 100K.)

3) What is the best way to purchase maps? Sounds like a horror show for many people. Downloading to BaseCamp but then it doesn't export to device, purchase on Micro SD card but they're tied to SN so you can't use in software or another device, etc, etc.

Buy your topo maps on DVD--they are unlocked, can be displayed on your computer, and downloaded to your GPS. Topo maps on microSD cards are locked to the card and downloaded topos are locked to your GPS. (Other types of maps (eg road and nautical) are locked to a GPS.) Topos on DVD are often cheaper (more area/cost) than maps on microSD cards. With maps on DVD, one can choose regional subsets to load into the GPS. (The only disadvantage is for US Topo 2008 DVD (100k scale) is the ~6600 segments--however one can get a ~450 segment GPS-locked version by download.)

4) Sounds like updating firmware is a common task. Is it hard/difficult to do? Not a real "tech guy". Will I be banging my head against the desk trying to figure it out?

It has been easy for me. I just download the <upgrade.exe> file and execute in on my computer with the GPS connected. (I don't use their web-based updaters--a failure might brick your GPS.) See http://www.gawisp.com/perry/agree.html. Also available from the Garmin website.

5) Lot of the negative feedback for this and other devices is Garmin's horrible manuals, lousy customer service and unintuitive interface. Has anyone been on any 3rd party websites, read any 3rd party how-to books, etc that would be helpful to someone who has never used a GPS device before? Obviously I'll have to mess around with it on some test runs but anything that saves time and reduces the learning curve would be helpful.

The manuals aren't that bad... Just incomplete and they do not teach you how to use a GPS. Sorry, no suggestions of how-to books--I pretty much knew how to use one before I got it. And you will still have to spend a good bit of time playing with it, if only to learn its quirks. Their customer service used to be very good, but I don't have any current info.

A GPS is a complicated but amazing and wonderful little beast. It can serve you well if you learn how to use it.

FWIW, I use the 60CSx both in my car (with road maps) and on the trail. External power can be handy in the car. (You can select which maps are visible.)

BTW: check out MapSource--it may not talk to your 62s, but many feel it is better than BaseCamp on the computer. Just install it along with your maps.

BTW2: The GPS manuals are available from the Garmin website. These are often better than the printed manuals.

Doug

 

[DayTrip]

Well at least the purchase phase went well. Lucked into a bundle sale at REI. The unit itself goes for $320-$349 from all the looking around I did online. REI had a bundle with the 62s, USB cable, the carabiner clip, carrying case, a 4GB micro SD card, a free download of one 24k topo map and a one year subscription to BirdsEye Satellite Imagery - all for $334.99. Haven't turned it on yet but I got a good buy at least. Anyone interested in a GPS may want to check out the REI site. The 62s bundle appears to be in stock in most of their locations, at least the ones in my area. I didn't do much shopping beyond that. Pretty much jumped in the car and drove over there when they said they had it.

Thanks for that detailed answer DougPaul. Lot of info to sort through.

 

[TomK]

I bought a Garmin GPSmap 62s about a month ago...

I bought a Garmin GPSmap 62s in May. Like you, I had zero experience with GPS before I got this unit. Some of my experiences in learning to use it are in this thread (starting around reply #22):

http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?48936-GPS-questions

First, the pdf file for the Owner's Manual is readily findable online. If you haven't found and read it already, I'd recomend that you do so.

I downloaded a free Topo that includes New England. I also downloaded the tracks for the White Mountains from http://trailsnh.com/GPS/WMNF-2008-trails-GPX-files.zip. Since you have already set up Basecamp, you can do so now, and have a look. While I haven't been up North with the unit yet, based on my use on trails here in CT, I'm fairly confident that the combination of the free Topo and tracks will be fine.

Being cheap, er, frugal, I haven't purchased any maps for it. I did purchase a microSD card from Radio Shack, and put my Topo map there, using Basecamp.

I did a firmware update using the website - I had no issues.

You say you are not a "tech guy", and wonder if you will be "banging your head". I was a software engineer for 25+ years, and I did a fair amount of "banging my head", but between searching here on VFTT, other places on the net, and asking some questions here which other VFTTers were generous enough to respond to, I've gotten to a point where I'm fairly comfortable with the unit. I have done a fair amount of taking the GPS to a local trail network, and playing around with it, which helps greatly. You are on the other side of the state from me, but if you ever get to NW CT, shoot me a PM, and I'd be happy to meet you at a local trail and spend an hour or two hiking around with it, and letting you get a feel for using it, either mine before you buy, or yours after you get it.

TomK

 

[DougPaul]

Well at least the purchase phase went well. Lucked into a bundle sale at REI. The unit itself goes for $320-$349 from all the looking around I did online. REI had a bundle with the 62s, USB cable, the carabiner clip, carrying case, a 4GB micro SD card, a free download of one 24k topo map and a one year subscription to BirdsEye Satellite Imagery - all for $334.99. Haven't turned it on yet but I got a good buy at least. Anyone interested in a GPS may want to check out the REI site. The 62s bundle appears to be in stock in most of their locations, at least the ones in my area. I didn't do much shopping beyond that. Pretty much jumped in the car and drove over there when they said they had it.

I picked mine up about 2 months ago on a similar REI deal. Put some batteries in it and give it a try--you aren't likely to break it...

Thanks for that detailed answer DougPaul. Lot of info to sort through.

Happy to help. GPSes are sophisticated high-tech complicated little devices. (You don't have to understand most of the high-tech to use them. Most of the user-visible complexity is in the user interface.)

I suggest that you play with the unit for a while to learn how it works--take it in the car, take it on walks, hikes, etc. Use it before you need it so you will know what to do if the time comes.

GPSes eat batteries--I suggest that you get some NiMH rechargeables (I suggest Sony Eneloop AA) and a good smart charger (the Maha MH-C401FS is a good choice). http://thomas-distributing.com/ is a good source. (My only relationship with them is as a customer.) Or search on the net.

There are a number of past threads that contain into that will be useful to you. Search on "Eneloop", "Maha", and/or "NiMH" for threads about NiMH batteries and chargers. Search on "60CSx" for threads on GPSes. (The internal search doesn't index 3-character words, so it can't find "GPS". Use Google advanced search to search on "GPS".)

Enjoy your new toy.

Doug

 

[TomK]

A few things that drove me batty

See that you made the purchase. A few things that drove me nuts (short trip) that maybe you can avoid:

Like DougPaul said, get some rechargable batteries, a pair in the unit, and a pair to use as spares if the batteries run out. From the main menu, Hit Setup, System, Battery Type, and choose the type of batteries you are using.

Out of the box, when I tried to "find" a waypoint, I'd get a message about "No routable maps". From the main menu, hit Setup, Routing, Activity, and select "Direct Routing".

Out of the box, most of the compass directions are N,NE,E,SE,S,SW,W,NW. If you want to change this to a degree bearing, from the main menu, hit Setup, Heading, Display, and choose "Numeric Degrees".

If you have a track and want it displayed on the map, from the main menu, hit Track Manager, select the track you want to display. One of the options displayed will likely say "Show On Map", and you will think to yourself, that is what I want. You would be wrong. What it is showing you is the other option that is available, not the one currently active. Drove me nuts until I figured it out. Highlight this option and hit the Enter key, and the option will show as "Hide on Map". *Now* the track will show on the display.

The stuff shown on the "Compass" and "Trip Computer" pages is changable - the manual shows what sort of data can be displayed. Play around with this until you find a set of data fields that you think will be useful to you.

To get the display to turn off after several seconds (to save the battery) from the main menu, hit Setup, Display, Battery Save, and select "On".

Have fun!

TomK

 

[DayTrip]

Unit only comes with quick start guide in box so you have to go download the manual whether you want to or not. (Luckily I had already done this for several models when I was researching purchase). I have to say I went through all the set up and registration stuff, downloaded my free map and walked around in my yard screwing around without the manual and I'm guessing Garmin has done a lot to address all the complaints I've read about because I find this unit very easy to use....at least so far. I marked waypoints, recorded tracks, deleted the crap I did and adjusted the displays on various screens. I find the user interface pretty good actually. I need to learn more on the terminology (track vs route, etc) and take some real walks.

I must say it wasn't registering in my brain when DougPaul said it has "no external power" that he meant no charger. I went through the box a few times before it dawned on me you can't charge it. Glad several of you posted links regarding chargers. I got a 4-pack of lithium ion AA's so I loaded 2 and put the other 2 in my "back up stuff" pouch in my day pack. Guess I'll be in the market for a charger. So far so good though. Can really see the potential of having a unit like this. Thanks everyone for all the great info.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I also downloaded the tracks for the White Mountains from ftp://ftp.mytopo.com/nhtrails.

They are no longer there. Kimball is hosting them on TrailsNH.com - here: http://trailsnh.com/GPS/WMNF-2008-trails-GPX-files.zip

Tim

 

[DougPaul]

I must say it wasn't registering in my brain when DougPaul said it has "no external power" that he meant no charger. I went through the box a few times before it dawned on me you can't charge it. Glad several of you posted links regarding chargers. I got a 4-pack of lithium ion AA's so I loaded 2 and put the other 2 in my "back up stuff" pouch in my day pack. Guess I'll be in the market for a charger. So far so good though. Can really see the potential of having a unit like this. Thanks everyone for all the great info.

The 62s does not charge the internal batteries. No external power means that one must always run it from the internal batteries.

Note: for AA cells, only NiMHs are rechargeable. (Lithium AAs are not rechargeable.)

BTW, the battery type setting only affects the calibration of the battery discharge indicator--it has no effect on the operation of the GPS.

Doug

 

[Nessmuk]

batteries

I've had a 60csx for several years, for use in Search and Rescue, and for canoe racing and training (for speed maintenance). The NYSDEC rangers use the 60csx exclusively. I hike and bushwhack a lot, but prefer to not use a GPS at all for that... it's a personal thing for me when I'm out there enjoying the backcountry. But that is another story entirely.

Anyway, I actually have two 60csx models, and picked up a 62s along the way as well. I detest the 62s in comparison to the 60csx for several reasons, even more now due to its demonstrated horrible battery life.

I just finished the Yukon River Quest canoe race in a 7-person voyageur canoe, and am writing this from Dawson City YT. We had three 60csx units on board, and one 62s. I had the two older models at my bow station, one indicating map and next turnpoint, the other on compass view. The third 60 was with paddler #6, and I loaned my 62s to the stern paddler. The 62s was left alone strictly in compass view for the stern paddler, not in track mode (which is said to use more power). It died after less than 7 hours from the start with fresh lithium batteries.

The 60csx units were still working strong, one always in track mode, until our first mandatory stop at 22 hours into the race. We changed the batteries then, doing so only to avoid having to change them on the next race leg. After our mandatory stop period, once again the 62s batteries died at just about 7 hours, and were changed at that point during the race. Three sets of batteries eaten in the 62s, and still hours to go. Meanwhile all three 62csx units kept functioning strong with the single change of batteries for another 24 hours, until the finish.

If you can still find a 60csx anywhere, I highly recommend getting one instead of the 62s. Either way, know how to use them and their limitations as complex tools, and be sure to know and understand map and compass first without GPS if you venture into the wild.

 

[DougPaul]

The 62s was left alone strictly in compass view for the stern paddler, not in track mode (which is said to use more power). It died after less than 7 hours from the start with fresh lithium batteries.

I have measured the operating currents my GPSes:

                             ma
                ---------------------------
                   60CSx*          60CS
                -----------     -----------
GPS off                  40              50
GPS norm                100              70
light 100%      +170    270     +180    250
compass           +0    100      +50    120

* The 60CSx is the old version--I have tested the (unannounced) newer version to have a longer battery life and presumably draws less current.

The table shows that the compass draws a significant current in the 60CS, but not the 60CSx. I haven't measured the 62s.

Note: the compass display is driven by the GPS when the unit is moving fast enough and is only driven by the magnetic compass at slow speeds. (The magnetic compass is presumably turned off when using the GPS compass. Non-sensor units only use the GPS compass.) This may lead to confusion as the GPS compass shows only the direction of travel while the magnetic compass shows only the orientation. (The two directions are the same when you hold the GPS in "standard positoin" and move straight ahead.)
* 60CSx: Has an icon showing when the compass is on. Has a settable threshold (main menu > setup > heading). Set the threshold speed to 0 to turn off or to a high speed to turn it on.)
* 62s: No icon. The magnetic compass can only be set to "off" or "auto". (main menu > setup > heading > Compass (auto/off)) You can determine which compass is active by viewing the compass rose display and rotating the unit in a horizontal plane. If the rose rotates, the magnetic compass is active.

FWIW, I generally leave the magnetic compass turned off. (I prefer my mechanical compass for headings and bearings.)

Doug

 

[TomK]

BTW, the battery type setting only affects the calibration of the battery discharge indicator--it has no effect on the operation of the GPS.

And I have found that the battery discharge indicator isn't tremendously helpful. And when the "low battery" alarm pops up, I've found it really means that the thing will turn off in a minute or two.

TomK

 

[Nessmuk]

FWIW, I generally leave the magnetic compass turned off. (I prefer my mechanical compass for headings and bearings.)

Doug

FWIW I NEVER use the magnetic compass mode of any GPS. Our paddling+current speed averaging 10mph is more than sufficient to use the GPS mode of compass function. I use a real magnetic compass as a magnetic compass, a GPS as a GPS. Actually, it is the pointing arrow in GPS compass mode that we align the axis of the canoe to the next planned waypoint. The "compass" direction is irrelevant.

To summarize my most recent experience from a couple of days ago in the Yukon River, three 60CSx units had batteries changed just once approximately half way through 46 hours/440 miles of paddling, and only then as a precaution against dying at an inopportune race moment. Three sets of batteries in the 62s consistently died after only 7 hours or less each. All batteries were lithium AA and came from bulk packages purchased at the same time.

 

[DougPaul]

And I have found that the battery discharge indicator isn't tremendously helpful. And when the "low battery" alarm pops up, I've found it really means that the thing will turn off in a minute or two.

I just leave the battery setting on "Alkaline" on my 60CSx even though I almost always use NiMH batteries. The indicator is fairly useful in this configuration.

NiMH and Lithium batteries have flat discharge curves so the voltage is not a good indicator of the discharge state. In contrast, alkalines have a sloping discharge so the voltage does give you a good idea of the discharge state. My GPSes (and presumably most others using 2 cells) shut down at 2 volts. (By this time almost all of the energy has been drained from the battery.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

FWIW I NEVER use the magnetic compass mode of any GPS. Our paddling+current speed averaging 10mph is more than sufficient to use the GPS mode of compass function. I use a real magnetic compass as a magnetic compass, a GPS as a GPS. Actually, it is the pointing arrow in GPS compass mode that we align the axis of the canoe to the next planned waypoint. The "compass" direction is irrelevant.

In a boat one wants to know the speed and course over ground, not over the surface of the water. The GPS conveniently gives you this info...

Walking speed (2-3) mph is sufficient to use the GPS direction.

For those who know aircraft instruments, the "course pointer" mimics a horizontal situation indicator (HSI) and the "bearing pointer" mimics a radio magnetic indicator (RMI).

A good mechanical compass is also more accurate than the electronic magnetic compass in a GPS.

To summarize my most recent experience from a couple of days ago in the Yukon River, three 60CSx units had batteries changed just once approximately half way through 46 hours/440 miles of paddling, and only then as a precaution against dying at an inopportune race moment. Three sets of batteries in the 62s consistently died after only 7 hours or less each. All batteries were lithium AA and came from bulk packages purchased at the same time.

It is always possible that the 62s was defective--it would be interesting to know if this problem shows up on another unit. Also do you know for certain that the backlight was off?

If I get a chance, I'll measure the current draws of my newer 60CSx and my 62s.

Doug

 

[Nessmuk]

Also do you know for certain that the backlight was off?

Yes, of course.
It was also noted that the 62 was slower than the 60 by several seconds to flip to the next waypoint on the route as the current waypoint passed astern, especially if there was much lateral offset. This could lead to delays in turning to the proper course.

 

[DougPaul]

Yes, of course.

OK--just checking. One could easily miss the backlight out in daylight.

It was also noted that the 62 was slower than the 60 by several seconds to flip to the next waypoint on the route as the current waypoint passed astern, especially if there was much lateral offset. This could lead to delays in turning to the proper course.

Interesting. I have compared tracks from a side-by-side 60 and 62, but not their real-time performance. Such a lag could cause problems for car navigation.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

The 60csx units were still working strong, one always in track mode, until our first mandatory stop at 22 hours into the race. We changed the batteries then, doing so only to avoid having to change them on the next race leg. After our mandatory stop period, once again the 62s batteries died at just about 7 hours, and were changed at that point during the race. Three sets of batteries eaten in the 62s, and still hours to go. Meanwhile all three 62csx units kept functioning strong with the single change of batteries for another 24 hours, until the finish.

I made a few measurements and can now explain what happened...

The measurements:

                                       mA
                ------------------------------------------------
                   60CS*      60CSx #1     60CSx #2       62s
                ---------    ---------    ---------    ---------        
GPS off                50           40           45           90
GPS norm               70          110           75           85
light 100%      +180  250    +150  260    +130  205     +95  180
compass on       +50  120      +0  110      +0   75           85
rose display                   +0  110      +0   75     +85  170

* 60CSx #1 is my old unit
* 60CSx #2 is my newer unit (with improved power consumption)
* All measurements made with alkaline batteries
* rose display = compass rose display
note: all non-rose displays draw approximately the same current
* GPS norm = normal running, map display, recording the track

As should be obvious from the table, the compass rose display is consuming almost as much power as a 100% light! (Note that this extra current is drawn even if the magnetic compass is turned off--so it is the display, not the magnetic sensor...) Someone screwed up in the design and/or the rose display is being updated too often. (Computation consumes power.)

So use the 62s for recording a track (without using the compass rose display...) and use the 60CSx's for the (GPS or magnetic) compass rose displays.

Note that all of the above measurements were made with the track recording on. Didn't think check "normal mode" minus recording the track, however, I don't think that it consumes much power.

I had previously obtained better battery life with the newer 60CSx than with the old one http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?38355-60CSx-battery-lifetimes. This is consistent with the above measurements.

Doug

 

[Nessmuk]

So use the 62s for recording a track (without using the compass rose display...) and use the 60CSx's for the (GPS or magnetic) compass rose displays.

Well that would help explain what happened on the YRQ race last week. I was in the bow of our voyageur canoe, navigating with two 60CSX's operating at my station, plus a collection of printed maps. One 60CSX displayed the map, and with track on. The other displayed the compass rose and was not tracking.

I set up the stern paddler (position #7) with my 62s exclusively in compass rose mode, so he could maintain direction to head to the next waypoint. It remained in compass rose mode and was not touched. The paddler immediately in front of the stern (#6) had his 60CSX set mainly to compass most of the time, I believe. All three 60CSX's were still going strong when the batteries were pre-emptively changed after operating continuously for 23 hours. On the second race leg all three 60CSX's operated continuously for another 28 hours without battery change. The 62s consistently died at just 7 hours, multiple times.

 

[DougPaul]

Well that would help explain what happened on the YRQ race last week. I was in the bow of our voyageur canoe, navigating with two 60CSX's operating at my station, plus a collection of printed maps. One 60CSX displayed the map, and with track on. The other displayed the compass rose and was not tracking.

I think you can safely record the track with all GPSes, no matter what else they are doing. While I didn't explicitly measure it, I don't think recording the track consumes much power on either the 60CSx or the 62s.

Next time, try using the 62s in a non-compass-rose mode and let me know how long it lasts.

Doug