Tent Heaters

[post'r boy]

tent heater

lot's of arobic activity with yer tent mate!!! that'll keep ya warm!!! all other heaters are waaaay over rated!!

 

[yardsale]

Kirfau

I looked at that tent but decided against it more because of the collapsable stove they propose to use with it than the tent. Difficult to set up when cold, warps, can't damp it back enough, etc. The tents' cone shape would seem to shed wind and snow well, and hold heat in the lower portion of the tent due to the small tent volume up top.

 

[KevCon223]

Thanks for all the advice. I would probably only use the heater to take the chill out of the air before getting into sleeping bags and in the morning during breakfast.

 

[bobmak]

I am not advocating this, but I have used my 70 watt Gaz lantern many times in my tent in the evening when camping, most recently this spring in Sedona. The temps outside were in the low to mid 20's (water bottles left out would freeze overnight) but with the lamp going inside the tent I was able to sit up comfortably at night and read in just a t-shirt. I hung the lantern from the center of my dome tent (about 35 sq. ft) and left the front and rear doors partially open (one near the bottom the other near the top). The lantern hangs low enough so that the top of the tent just gets warm to the touch. I always light the lantern outside and carry it in. I have also done this using several candle lanterns as well. Again, I am aware that this isn't the safest practice so I am not promoting it's use. That being said, I am a fairly cautious person, am very careful when moving around insdie the tent, never sleep with lights on, always vent, and have done this for many years without a single problem.

I emailed Coleman once about venting for the Blackcat heaters, but the response is in my work email. I'll post the question and response tomorrow if I still have it.

 

[sun=electric]

Coleman Lamp

We have used a Coleman gasoline mantle type lantern hung the right distance from the tent peak to do the same read in your shirtsleeves and get dressed for sleep routine. I kept things warm enough at down to 28. I also wouldn't sleep with anything on that uses a flame. The key is the right sleeping bags, pads, hats, gloves and layers of poly fleece. In the morning put on everything you own until the coffee's ready.

 

[Chip]

Warm on top, cold on the bottom ?

I'm experimenting with various bag, liner, shell and pad combos trying to come up with the "best" weight to warmth ratio. All I know for sure right now is that it doesn't matter if you're in a -40 bag in a warm tent, if your ground cover/pad/pads isn't insulating you against the cold ground. My body was perfectly warm this past weekend (@ 20 degrees) but the 2 (1 smaller and 1 larger) RidgeRest pads I used, while quite light, did not insulate very well underneath.

 

[DougPaul]

All I know for sure right now is that it doesn't matter if you're in a -40 bag in a warm tent, if your ground cover/pad/pads isn't insulating you against the cold ground. My body was perfectly warm this past weekend (@ 20 degrees) but the 2 (1 smaller and 1 larger) RidgeRest pads I used, while quite light, did not insulate very well underneath.

The packaging on the Cascade Designs pads lists an R value. Perhaps also on their web site. Useful for comparing the pads insulating value.

Once upon a time, 1/2 inch closed cell foam was the standard for winter. (I've read of high altitude climbers using 2 pads.) Now days, most closed cell pads are only 3/8 inch thick. I used to use just a single 1/2 inch closed cell pad, but more recently I've added a 1.5 inch 3/4ths length thermarest on top. (Note that the lighter therarests have holes in the foam and are not as warm as a heavier solid foam pad.)

I've never used a ridgerest myself, but IMO the thickness of the actual foam is more inportant than the thickness of the foam + ridge pattern. A flat pad will also have less surface area which should reduce the heat loss. Two flat 3/8 inch closed cell pads should be sufficient and will be light, if a bit bulky.

Sleeping on snow will be warmer than sleeping on a platform or in a shelter because the snow underneath will help insulate you (up to a snow temp of 32F, of course). After multiple nights at the same spot, the snow under you will pack down and become less insulating.

Doug

 

[skiguy]

Another type of winter tent with a stove can be seen here:

http://www.kifaru.net/TIPI.HTM

I don't own one but have dreamed about using one some time. They seem like they could be perfect base camp for a sled-in trip.

I have and use a very similar Tent/Stove combination that use to be made by Mountainsmith.I believe they call this type of stove a "Shepard's" stove.
This type of camping I have found to be useful for longer/Basecamp style trips. The Tent with the stove has usually served as a Group gathering area for Cooking and drying out. Setup is critical with these tents and usually works best with at least two to three people to set up. The tent usually serves as a cap over a dug hole in the snow or over built up snow walls.
The stove sucks alot of wood because they are not air tight and requires very small thumbsize type wood. Tending the stove is a full time job hence better to have more than a couple of people around as the person who tends the stove can't do much else;although the hottest seat in the house!

 

[bobmak]

Below is the email I sent and answer received regarding the Coleman heaters. I hope this info is useful to someone!

Sent from me:
Hi! I am a winter enthusiast and often camp in my 2 man winter
mountaineering tent (40 sq feet, 40" tall) during backcountry ski trips in
the winter months. I am intrigued by your small portable catalytic
heaters. Currently my only source of heat in my tent are two small candle
lanterns that I carry. What can you tell me about using these heaters in
a tent? Is carbon monoxide a major issue? How much ventilation is
required? How hot do the heads get? Thank you!!!

Response from Coleman:
The Sportcat is 1,100 BTU's and will run up to 18 hours on 1ea. 16.4 oz. bottle of propane. The sportcat has a 5" diameter head.

The Blackcat is a 3,000 BTU's and will operate up to 8 hours on 1 16.4 Oz. bottle of propane. The blackcat has an 8" head.

The heaters are safe to use in a tent. You need to allow 1 square inch of ventilation for each 1000 BTU's of output.

Thank you,

Holley
Coleman Consumer Service
1-800-835-3278

 

[KevCon223]

Below is the email I sent and answer received regarding the Coleman heaters. I hope this info is useful to someone!

Sent from me:
Hi! I am a winter enthusiast and often camp in my 2 man winter
mountaineering tent (40 sq feet, 40" tall) during backcountry ski trips in
the winter months. I am intrigued by your small portable catalytic
heaters. Currently my only source of heat in my tent are two small candle
lanterns that I carry. What can you tell me about using these heaters in
a tent? Is carbon monoxide a major issue? How much ventilation is
required? How hot do the heads get? Thank you!!!

Response from Coleman:
The Sportcat is 1,100 BTU's and will run up to 18 hours on 1ea. 16.4 oz. bottle of propane. The sportcat has a 5" diameter head.

The Blackcat is a 3,000 BTU's and will operate up to 8 hours on 1 16.4 Oz. bottle of propane. The blackcat has an 8" head.

The heaters are safe to use in a tent. You need to allow 1 square inch of ventilation for each 1000 BTU's of output.

Thank you,

Holley
Coleman Consumer Service
1-800-835-3278

Seems pretty safe. the only concern is the temp of the head and it melting something on contact. Maybe I can find a way to suspend it from the roof, but far enough not to burn it from radiant heat.

 

[Tom Rankin]

Once upon a time, 1/2 inch closed cell foam was the standard for winter. (I've read of high altitude climbers using 2 pads.) Now days, most closed cell pads are only 3/8 inch thick.

Hmmm, sounds like the evolution of the 2" x 4". They really used to be that size! Honest!

 

[DougPaul]

Hmmm, sounds like the evolution of the 2" x 4". They really used to be that size! Honest!

My understanding is that 2" x 4" is the unfinished size--finishing grinds some additional wood off.

I have EMS catalogs from the 70's that list closed cell foam pads in 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 inch thicknesses.

REI's "blue" foam is sold in 3/8 thickness for sleeping pads, but they sell an 18x18 inch 1/2 inch thick sitting pad. I suppose one could use 3 sitting pads for sleeping...

Doug

 

[Pete_Hickey]

My understanding is that 2" x 4" is the unfinished size--finishing grinds some additional wood off.

WAS.... A long time ago that was true. With the thin saws they are using these days, there isn't much waste. While 2x4s were never 2x4, their size has decreased from the mid-60's (my memory) to now, in spite of the sawmills doing more efficient cutting.

pads... I never paid any attention to what their actual thickness was, but I did have the impression they were thinner than they used to be. I'm a 2 padder.

 

[DougPaul]

WAS.... A long time ago that was true. With the thin saws they are using these days, there isn't much waste. While 2x4s were never 2x4, their size has decreased from the mid-60's (my memory) to now, in spite of the sawmills doing more efficient cutting.

Somehow, I'm not surprised. Before long we will have to start building with 3x5s....

pads... I never paid any attention to what their actual thickness was, but I did have the impression they were thinner than they used to be. I'm a 2 padder.

Two 3/8 inch closed cell pads seem to me to be the most practical lightweight solution given what is available these days.

Or one 3/8 inch (or 1/2 inch if you have it) closed cell and a self-inflater for a little more weight and comfort.

Doug

 

[BrentD22]

Silly Question

I plan on a backyard camping trip with my older kids 3 and 6 to see how things go. We will have tons of extra blankets under and over us along with bags that should work just fine. 70% of my backpacking is in winter so I know I'll be OK. I'm nervous that between their wiggling and moving that 1 or both of them might end up half out of their bags before the night is over. I was thinking about running an extension cord out to the tent and running a ceramic heater. I will place it up on a table or box to keep it away from our bags. Does anyone know if that kind of heat puts off any "bad" stuff in enclosed areas or if it uses up O2. I don't believe there would be a problem, but I thought I'd throw the question out there. Thanks a head of time for the replies.

 

[DougPaul]

I plan on a backyard camping trip with my older kids 3 and 6 to see how things go. We will have tons of extra blankets under and over us along with bags that should work just fine.

If you use blankets under you, they will accumulate moisture. If you put a sheet of plastic on top of the "pad" blankets, it will act as a VBL and keep the blankets dry and warmer. (Remember that closed-cell and self-inflatable pads are also impermiable to moisture.)

70% of my backpacking is in winter so I know I'll be OK. I'm nervous that between their wiggling and moving that 1 or both of them might end up half out of their bags before the night is over.

If they wiggle out of their bags, they will get cold, wake up, and most likely complain, at which point you can fix the problem. It might help if you tell them to wake you if they get cold.

I was thinking about running an extension cord out to the tent and running a ceramic heater. I will place it up on a table or box to keep it away from our bags. Does anyone know if that kind of heat puts off any "bad" stuff in enclosed areas or if it uses up O2.

An electric heater shouldn't cause any problems with the air. Just fire hazard, the risk of [flesh] burns, and the risk of melting any synthetic fabric that touches it or gets too close.

My perference would be to pick a fairly warm night and ditch the heater. (This will also help them/you learn if they can camp without an external heat source.) Since you are in the back yard, if there is a serious problem, all you have to do is go inside.

Doug