The 14 highest peaks of Maine

[RoySwkr]

If asked what were the 14 highest peaks of ME, most knowledgeable folks would cite the AMC official footers which are based on 200' col depth. Choosing a col depth of 100' like the Trailwrights would add some Katahdin satellites while dropping some of the lower 4k, while increasing the col depth to 500' would add several lower peaks while removing some 4k connected by ridgelines.

Prominent prominician Edward Earl has created an algorithm for determining the set of peaks necessary to climb a list of N peaks such that you have done that number for all prominence values (we agree to eliminate values less than the map contour interval as that would require detailed on-site surveys).
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/prominence/message/4424

Here are my calculations of his list for ME, it appears to take 42 bumps to guarantee 14

For P > 2079, there are not 14 peaks

For 2079 >= P > 2062, the list is:
5268 4293 Mt. Katahdin
4250 3180 Sugarloaf Mtn.
4145 2855 West Peak On Bigelow Mtn.
4170 2720 Old Speck Mtn.
3654 2624 White Cap Mtn.
3730 2520 Coburn Mtn.
4120 2450 Saddleback Mtn.
3550 2340 The Traveler On Traveler Mtn.
3960 2330 Snow Mtn.
3654 2264 Kibby Mtn.
3790 2240 East Peak On Baldpate Mtn.
3521 2191 Baker Mtn.
3194 2124 Big Moose Mtn.
3489 2079 Doubletop Mtn.

For 2062 >= P > 2002
delete Big Moose, add
3772 2062 Elephant Mtn.

For 2002 >= P > 1801
delete Doubletop, add
3630 2002 Boundary Bald Mtn.

For 1801 >= P > 1798
delete Baker, add
3791 1801 East Kennebago Mtn.

For 1801 >= P > 1798
delete Traveler, add
3568 1798 Jackson Mtn.

For 1798 >= P > 1524
delete Jackson (didn't last long , add
3654 1524 Rump Mtn.

For 1524 >= P > 1435
delete Boundary Bald, add
3645 1435 Cow Ridge

For 1435 >= P > 1274
delete Cow (also didn't last long , add
3870 1380 Goose Eye Mtn.

For 1274 >= P > 1256
delete one of (Kibby, Rump, White Cap 3654), add
3784 1274 Snow Mtn.

For 1256 >= P > 1218
delete another of (Kibby, Rump, White Cap 3654), add
4151 1256 North Brother

For 1218 >= P > 1006
delete last of (Kibby, Rump, White Cap 3654), add
4228 1218 Crocker Mtn.

For 1006 >= P > 899
delete Coburn, add
3856 1006 White Cap Mtn.

For 899 >= P > 595
delete Elephant, add
4049 899 Mt. Abraham

For 595 >= P > 520
delete Snow 3784, add
4010 595 Spaulding Mtn.

For 520 >= P > 506
delete Baldpate East, add
3970 520 South Brother

For 506 >= P > 471
delete East Kennebago, add
4756 506 Hamlin Peak

For 471 >= P > 460
delete White Cap 3856, add
4041 471 The Horn

For 460 >= P > 360
delete Goose Eye, add
4010 460 Mt. Redington

For 360 >= P > 300
delete Snow 3960, add
4050 360 South Crocker Mtn.

For 280 >= P > 100
delete South Brother, add
4120 280 Bigelow, Avery Peak

Give me a break on the rest of these, my eyes aren't what they once were

For 100 >= P > 80
delete one of (Redington, Spaulding), add
4750 100 Howe Peaks (Katahdin)

For 80 >= P > 60
delete other of (Redington, Spaulding), add
4910 80 Pamola

For 60 >= P > 40
delete The Horn and Abraham, add
5260 60 South Peak (Katahdin)
4890 60 Chimney Peak

For 40 >= P > 20
delete South Crocker, add
4194 40 *North Bump of Howe, Katahdin

For P >= 20
delete Saddleback and Avery and West Bigelow and South Brother, add
5250 20 *West Bump of South Peak, Katahdin
4710 20 *another of the Howe Peaks
4490 20 *Hunt Trail, Katahdin
4410 20 *NW Plateau, Katahdin

giving a 14 highest list of
5268 4293 Mt. Katahdin
5260 60 South Peak (Katahdin)
5250 20 *West Bump of South Peak, Katahdin
4910 80 Pamola
4890 60 Chimney Peak
4756 506 Hamlin Peak
4750 100 Howe Peaks (Katahdin)
4710 20 *another of the Howe Peaks
4490 20 *Hunt Trail, Katahdin
4410 20 *NW Plateau, Katahdin
4250 3180 Sugarloaf Mtn.
4228 1218 Crocker Mtn.
4194 40 *North Bump of Howe, Katahdin
4170 2720 Old Speck Mtn.

 

[NH_Mtn_Hiker]

Huh, run that by me again, will ya?

 

[Nadine]

And ten of the 14 end up being on Katahdin

Thanks for all your hard work in compiling this list Roy. I've got a few more peaks to climb by the looks of things!

Nadine

 

[dr_wu002]

Makes sense to me. Too bad 14 ain't a freakin' prime number though. It's the third discrete biprime (2 x 7) woopee.

-Dr. Wu

 

[dr_wu002]

It would be interesting to make a list of the 48 most prominent mountains in NH. You'd be surprised -- I bet you'd get some 1000'ers on the bottom of the list.

-Dr. Wu

 

[Amicus]

Why is this list different from the top 14 Maine peaks on the "50 Finest" list? We're talking about different types of "prominence," I gather? (I should be able to figure this out from Roy's calculations, but have forgotten my algebra.)

 

[dr_wu002]

Why is this list different from the top 14 Maine peaks on the "50 Finest" list? We're talking about different types of "prominence," I gather? (I should be able to figure this out from Roy's calculations, but have forgotten my algebra.)

I don't think the top part is any different.

No real algebra needed: The first part is most rigid: peaks in Maine with prominence over 2062' (or whatever) which is why there are a bunch of 3000'ers and so on. As he moves down the list he lessens the reliance on prominence so a lot of peaks that have a higher elevation (but lower prominence) now make the list, which automatically cuts off at 14. By the end of the list, the prominence requirement is like 20' so it's basically the 14 highest peaks and bumps in Maine -- most are on Katahdin and are usually considered shoulders (Hunt Trail) or just some bump on the table.

Notice that on the top list w/ high prominence you have only one Katahdin 'peak' which is Baxter of course. The bottom of the list w/ low prominence you have mostly Katahdin "peaks".

It's mainly an exercise showing that based on your defined criteria, a list of "X Highest" could look very different than someone else's. The NH48 is defined by a prominence (p) >200' (actually, p>160') which people usually call the 200' col rule. If you made it p > 500' (500' col rule) you'd have a much different list with either many 3k's (if you want 48 peaks on your list) or much less than 48 4000' peaks (if you set your criteria >4000' elevation). Conversely, if you have a prominence > 10' you would have basically the Trailwrights 72 list.

-Dr. Wu

 

[Amicus]

I don't think the top part is any different.

Right you are. I think I get it now (close enough anyway). Thanks

 

[albee]

So this exercise is just to define what the highest peaks are by using different col depth requirements? Seems like a pretty simple concept.

These types of lists would come in handy when you're bragging to someone...
You could say "I've climbed X number of the highest mountains in Maine" and you wouldn't have to clarify your statement by explaining how col depth factors into the equation. You could say you climbed them all and mean it.

I can honestly say that I have climbed every 4,000'er down to a clean prominence of 160', but how dorky does that sound? Soon I will be able to say that I climbed the 20 most prominent mountains in Maine, or every peak with greater than 2,000' of prominence, but both of those sound pretty dorky, too. Next time somebody asks, I'm just gonna show them this spiffy patch I earned instead...

 

[dr_wu002]

So this exercise is just to define what the highest peaks are by using different col depth requirements? Seems like a pretty simple concept.

These types of lists would come in handy when you're bragging to someone...
You could say "I've climbed X number of the highest mountains in Maine" and you wouldn't have to clarify your statement by explaining how col depth factors into the equation. You could say you climbed them all and mean it.

I can honestly say that I have climbed every 4,000'er down to a clean prominence of 160', but how dorky does that sound? Soon I will be able to say that I climbed the 20 most prominent mountains in Maine, or every peak with greater than 2,000' of prominence, but both of those sound pretty dorky, too. Next time somebody asks, I'm just gonna show them this spiffy patch I earned instead...

The point of the different variations of the list is to communicate different permutations of mountains/peaks to climb in Maine or anywhere else. So, you climb the 14 (or whatever it is) 4000 footers in Maine, now what? Well, here's a list of 14 of the highest peaks with 1000' prominence or 2000' prominence or 20' prominence. It's just a list of opportunities. When you've done them all, tweak the requirements and could have an entirely different list. You can also get something similar by looking at topo maps and pointing at things but some people might find lists a bit more refined.

-Dr. Wu

 

[dr_wu002]

Another interesting aspect is that within the Whites there are 9 main "ridges" or mountains with prominence over 2000', these are Washington, Lafayette, Carter, Moosilauke, Carrigain, Kinsman, Osceola, Cabot and Old Spec. If you look at google earth or something with 3d topography and take a look at the entire "white mountain area" you will see, yes indeed there are 9 or 10 very large ridges, each with significant sub-ridges and whatnot. The names associated (Osceola for example) really only signify the highest point on that ridge. When I think of the Sandwich Area, I don't necessarily think of Osceola although it is the high point.

Now, when you look at each of those ridges individually, if you apply a lower "col rule" the other, familiar peaks will emerge. Take Lafayette as an entire mountain. If you look within it, for things with 200' col you'll see Lincoln, Liberty, Flume, Garfield, South Twin, Bond, Owl's Head, Guyot, Hale, South Hale and not so well known ones like Coolidge, Bickford and whatnot. What the 2000' prominent peaks generally says to me is, these are the real mountains of the Whites, and the others are basically sub peaks.

This is just, obviously, playing with numbers and in no way establishes "better" or "more fun" or "more challenging." The top 10 peaks in terms of elevation in the whites, to me, is just as interesting as the top 10 peaks in terms of prominence in the Whites. More places to go. More adventures to have. Making lists makes it so you have more hiking related things to think about when you're at home and not hiking.

-Dr. Wu

 

[dr_wu002]

If asked what were the 14 highest peaks of ME, most knowledgeable folks would cite the AMC official footers which are based on 200' col depth. Choosing a col depth of 100' like the Trailwrights would add some Katahdin satellites while dropping some of the lower 4k, while increasing the col depth to 500' would add several lower peaks while removing some 4k connected by ridgelines.

So, basically what Roy is saying is that when you say "highest" you should specify what you mean by "highest"

You can see that with a 20' prominence requirement you get things like 5250' 20' *West Bump of South Peak, Katahdin and if you lower your prominence requirement to something like 2" you'll have to include every rock littered on Kathadin on your list. With a 2000' prominence requirement the only Kathadin on the list is the summit proper.

I think it's an interesting concept because I could tell you that I've summited the 10,000 highest peaks in Maine with a 2 inch prominence and I'd be correct because I've walked around on quite a bit of rocks up there. But when talking about say, the 20 Highest Peaks in Maine, if you don't specify exactly what you mean by that it could mean a whole lot of different things.

I think though that the general convention is "200' col requirement" so if you say nothing, in general that's what you mean. I can't go around telling people that yeah, I've done the North East 770 when what I mean is the North East 770 with 2" prominence (aka, Washington and the 769 highest rocks on the summit) -- actually, thinking about it that would be kinda difficult and fussy to do something like that: "Hey, Eric: this rock here is higher than that one over there! C'mon -- I gotta finish this list before dark!!"

-Dr. Wu

 

[sapblatt]

Next time somebody asks, I'm just gonna show them this spiffy patch I earned instead...

After careful consideration, I have decided that I am just going to say "I hiked"

 

[albee]

After careful consideration, I have decided that I am just going to say "I hiked"

I think the most respectful way of putting this, Mike, is:

I think talking about peakbagging is interesting.
Dr_Wu thinks talking about peakbagging rules is interesting.
And you think talking about redlining is interesting.

Hiking can be so fulfilling to so many different kinds of people.

 

[dvbl]

After careful consideration, I have decided that I am just going to say "I hiked"

Mike, please give this further consideration. If you're not gonna brag about your hiking...well, then what's the use of going?

 

[dr_wu002]

If you're not gonna brag about your hiking...well, then what's the use of going?

Well, you can find stuff on the trail that you can sell on e-bay, I guess. Jeez, never thought about it...

-Dr. Wu

 

[sapblatt]

Well, you can find stuff on the trail that you can sell on e-bay, I guess. Jeez, never thought about it...

-Dr. Wu

I am going to pick up that 100 year old steel rail near the south end of the Bondcliff trail - starting bid $100. Of course I will be blatantly breaking Wilderness policy.
Now - how do I strap it to my pack?

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I am going to pick up that 100 year old steel rail near the south end of the Bondcliff trail - starting bid $100. Of course I will be blatantly breaking Wilderness policy.
Now - how do I strap it to my pack?

If carrying it out doesn't kill you, the shipping costs to the winning bidder will.

Tim

 

[RoySwkr]

It would be interesting to make a list of the 48 most prominent mountains in NH.

You've already made a good start in another note

You'd be surprised -- I bet you'd get some 1000'ers on the bottom of the list.

There's a guy whose name begins with A that knows what one of them is, although there is another closer to his vacation home that he would probably need to look at the map on his wall to discover

 

[Amicus]

There's a guy whose name begins with A that knows what one of them is,

It's also a color - beloved of environmentalists and Hibernians.

. . . although there is another closer to his vacation home that he would probably need to look at the map on his wall to discover

Tantalizing ... Wish I had that map at hand. Foss is prominent for its blueberries - I wonder if also...