The Big Giardia Question

[Quietman]

I picked up a case of Cryptosporidium in the Whites 10 years ago and while it's a quick way to lose 20 lbs, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. That slow running stream fairly close to the highway was a poor choice but I was very thirsty. I just bought my own filter this summer after relying on my bothers' when we hiked.

 

[mavs00]

Hey, I could stand to lose 20 or so.

ACTUALLY, here is a interesting article about -ALL THINGS GIARDIA-. I've never had it myself, nor am I all that excited at the prospect of getting it.

I have a filter and use it whenever I'm hiking in the high peaks or other high traffic areas. Generally, I would say I always filter. However, I must admit, last summer while bushwhacking in the remote North River range, I specifically recall just dipping my face straight into a cool mountain stream and just slurping to my heart content. It may have been the most delicious and refreshing water I've ever tasted.

 

[iceclimber]

filter .. why not?

I always filter. why not? It's simple, gives my feet a rest, I get to hear the sounds of nature while refilling, and it makes it that much more safe!

What's to lose there!?

 

[the starchild]

I specifically recall just dipping my face straight into a cool mountain stream and just slurping to my heart content. It may have been the most delicious and refreshing water I've ever tasted.

there's one of several reason's not to filter!!!!

another is to not feel the need that everything in nature is bad. i don't like the idea of thinking i cannot drink real water. i don't like the idea that i should only drink water that has been chemically treated, boiled, burned and killed. i feel like water and some of what's in it must be good. think about it, for the thousands? millions? of years we have been hiking around the planet, MSR and First Need have only been around for a teeeny fraction of that time

only drinking dead water seems as unhealthy as getting giardia or any of the other nasties. that's why sometimes i filter...and sometimes i don't!

 

[sardog1]

A giardia testing device accompanies me on every hike, sampling the water whenever convenient. About once a year it turns up positive, with spectacularly apparent results. And then, after spending about $60 at the vet, he's back to normal and we go back into the field again.

Not wanting to become a test device myself, I filter every single drop of water that I drink.

 

[snowshoe]

I had a mild case of BEAVER FEVER while in VT. It was not fun although it could have been worst. Do I filter my water? Depends. Low elevations yes. Higher up depends whats above the source. At the start of a stream where there is a beaver swamp, I will filter. The spring on Slide mt (Catskills) I never filter but the one just above the Slide Parking I will filter. Humans are not the main cause. It is the animals you have to watch. Hence the nickname Beaver Fever.

 

[kmac]

filter or boil water

I have learned my lesson the hard way. Therefore, I always filter or boil my water. And besides having to take amebicides for 10 days three times a day is such a nuisance and the medications themselves have a list of side effects, why risk it.

 

[Puck]

I Humans are not the main cause. It is the animals you have to watch. Hence the nickname Beaver Fever.

I heard it is the other way around. Human feces is the chief vector. We spread it due to bad toilet habits. I read a paper ( http://www.yosemite.org/naturenotes/Giardia.htm) that stated that animals have due to infection by humans, now they have becomethe resevoir. Makes we wonder what the beavers call it.

 

[mavs00]

I heard it is the other way around. Human feces is the chief vector. We spread it due to bad toilet habits. I read a paper ( I will try to dig it up and post it) that stated that animals have due to infection by humans, now they have becomethe resevoir. Makes we wonder what the beavers call it.

Giardia are protozoan parasites, they can live many creatures and different forms have been known to infect many kinds of mammals, birds, reptiles and fish. The link in my above post is from the USEPA and it goes into detail (including some things you don't want to know ) about Giardia. Bottom line is that it's pretty prevalent and probably one of the MOST common parasitic infections worldwide.

The article suggests that there is likely Giardia in EVERY water source in the country. Weather you get sick depends on the specific species involved and the levels in the source. It seems many of the biggest risks occur in everyday life.

So for me, I'll continue to do my best to filter when I can, but the bottom line is, the probability of infection from many back-country sorces is likely pretty low, or perhaps only slightly increased from everyday living. I will not hesitate to drink from clean untreated sources, particularly if I'm suffering from dehydration or some other ailment that could effect my much needed back-country decision making skills.

*** EDITED ***

I just read Pucks link to the article (great read) and it pretty much jives with the info in the link I supplied. Although its worth noting that his link refers to Giardia Lamblia, which is the one primarily responsible for human disease. Lots of other Giardia species and forms exist in nature and generally, not of concern to us.

Thanks Puck, good article.

 

[slamdog]

Had a battle with it...

I am one of the 25lb losers thanks to a nice bout of Giardia. 6 months before correctly diagnosed!!!! Adk water, without filter. Good, or bad, I now filter everything I drink while hiking/backpacking. That is not something that I ever want to have again, but if I do get it, I'll know immediately what the problem is. Sign me better safe than sorry. L

 

[the starchild]

Starchild -

Filtering water doesn't add anything to it so long as it's a just a filter. Rather, it strains/removes little beasties. Doesn't change the taste of water, either. So, if the water tastes like a swamp before it's filtered, then yup it will taste like a swamp after it's filtered.

Sorta like fresh-squeezed OJ where the strainer removes the seeds but lets the juice and pulp thru ...

mmmmmm....orange juice!

i know, but thanks for the beta! i have a sweetwater guardian i carry and use when needed and the water tastes delicious with or without it. i have been known to bring back a nalgene for mom! no, really...i have! I meant to express an idea that had less to with the taste than the concept of having to feel so unsafe and protected all the time and the idea that some methods probably also remove good stuff in the water.

Puck posted the exact same link to a giardia report/paper that i posted a while up in this thread, everyone should definetly read it. lots of interesting reading on this subject. does seem like the beavers have people poopitits rather than people get beaver fever!?

ok, i know, people poopitis was the best i could do on short notice
backpacker's revenge?
peakbaggers puke?
hikingboot heebeegeebee's?
trailrunner's runs?

i better get back to work.............

 

[Puck]

Puck posted the exact same link to a giardia report/paper that i posted a while up in this thread, everyone should definetly read it. lots of interesting reading on this subject. does seem like the beavers have people poopitits rather than people get beaver fever!?

sorry to be redundit. somehow I missed your link in your post. I thank you on behalf of all beavers for trying to clear thier good name.

 

[snowshoe]

Dont forget all it takes is a splash in a puddle and that water getting onto your mouth piece of your bladder. Thats how I got my mild case. Splashing through water and that getting on my bladder mouth piece while mt biking.

 

[post'r boy]

all good info. one question for those of you who are concerned about contracting giardia from back country water sources. are you concerned about catching it from washing/ rinseing either your hands or face in the water,or do you refrain from doing so? thanks in advance.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

all good info. one question for those of you who are concerned about contracting giardia from back country water sources. are you concerned about catching it from washing/ rinseing either your hands or face in the water,or do you refrain from doing so?

Never wash your hands and face in a stream. Always use alcohol based cleaners, and dry yourself with sterile wipes after.

And don't think about going without washing, either. It IS important to look your best when hiking. You never know who you may run into out there, and we all know how important those first impressions are.

However, don't fret if you find yourself with a dirty face, and no cleaner. You can wash your face in a stream, IF you dry it using your MSR stove. Make sure the heat from the flame is hot enough to destroy any germs that may remain.

 

[sierra]

Sorry Pete, but never wash your hands or face in a stream? are you kidding? you dont stick your whole head in a ice cold brook when hiking in hot weather? I do every chance I get, I also carry a bandanna and soak in in every stream then wrap it around my neck and dab my face until the next water. I have never in over 20 years used a filter, I do carry all my water for most hikes, if I run out, Ill drink from a brook if it looks good and Im really thirsty, but I conceed, iodine tabs are a good idea, filters just never did it for me.

 

[blacknblue]

I'll agree with Pete. I certainly like to splash around and wash up in a pleasant stream to keep from getting completely grungy, but I don't consider myself 'clean.' I still always use some alcohol-based sanitizer on my hands (at least) before eating.

 

[Lawn Sale]

Giardia is inactivated at a water temperature of 180° (some sources say 170°, but better to aire on the side of caution), so the water does not need to come to full boil to inactivate the Giardia. The only other effective way to inactivate Giardia in cold water is to filter it, chlorine, Miox, chlorine-dioxide, and iodine become much less effective when the water is around 5°C (about 41°F) than above 20°C (70°F). In summation, if you're not filtering or boiling it, you shouldn't even bother adding any chemicals. Yes, the filters will freeze. However, if you shake them out as much as possible and use a fiber filter that has some elasticity to it, it will thaw out when you use it again. If you use a ceramic filter, you run a significant risk of ruining the filter porosity by the expansion of the water trapped inside.

Something to keep in mind here is that there are lots of diseases that can be picked up other than just Giardia. Many of these cannot be filtered and thus must be disinfected. So, if you're worried about these and not Giardia, then adding the chemicals will help, but you will have to significantly increase the contact time or increase the concentration dosage to compensate. This is called CT, and is a measure of the concentration of the disinfectant and the time it's exposed to the pathogens.

I'm just relaying the facts as they are relevant to winter hiking. Those who chose to not filter or boil at least look at the water source prior to drinking, which is a good thing, but it's really not an indicator of the water quality. Common sense does matter, but it'll only carry you so far. It's true that many people have been hiking for years without any problems, and I was one of them. But since I have been working in the field, I've realized I was playing Russian Roulette with my drinking water and chose to take steps to minimize the chances of infection.

What everyone does with this information is up to them, I'm not trying to preach one way or the other, I've always thought people should be left to make their own choices. As for me, I'll continue to filter and add a disinfectant...where necessary.

Here is some good information on disinfection and sterilization, to include hand sanitizer and many other useful items of interest.

 

[jessbee]

Sorry Pete, but never wash your hands or face in a stream? are you kidding?

I think there was a *little* sarcasm in that post...(sorry pete if I am wrong!) I think most people are too fussy about hygeine. I have a lousy immune system..thanks parents...so I tend to err on the side of caution. But since I don't do multi-day trips and I have the water capacity of a camel I have no need to worry about filters. Hopefully this will never change

It all depends on what you are willing to tolerate. Some folks have suffered from Giardia and don't really care while others have had a bad experience...what risk are you willing to accept?

 

[Pete_Hickey]

Giardia is inactivated at a water temperature of 180° (some sources say 170°, but better to aire on the side of caution), so the water does not need to come to full boil to inactivate the Giardia.

The reason a rolling boil is recomended, is that a cooking pot may not have the same temperature throughout. The rolling boil, ensures that it is hot throughout.

Also, some people are 'carriers' Their system contains giardia, but it is not effecting them. IIRC, a reasonable percentage of people (10%?) fit into this in norht america. In other areas, the percentage may be much higher. I have a feeling I fit into that catagory. In fact, in my case, with the kind of foods I eat, any giardia I ingest will be way worse than I will be.



Jessbee: sarcasm? Me?????