The Castles

[Grey J]

I did the Castle trail many years ago but recently had a good look at it from the Caps Ridge Trail. Reading up on that route the other day, I have found that the elevations for The Castles vary according to your source. Peakbagger.com lists the NW Castle, aka The First Castle, at 4330 while the AMC WMG lists it as 4450. That's quite a difference, 120 feet.

Peakbagger.com lists the higher SE Castle as 4500. The AMC WMG does not give an elevation for the SE Castle but says that it's "slightly higher" which would be more consistent with an elevation of 4450 for the NW Castle. If anyone can clarify this for me, I'd appreciate it. Finally, is this a photo of The First (NW) Castle? Or is this both Castles?

 

[RichS]

The WMG 30th edition lists the first castle at 4450, then a slightly higher castle, then higher but lesser crags.
Your picture, plus mine from a similar viewpoint showing a higher crag, indicate that both castles' elevations are similar. I imagine the difference is less than 50' but that's just a guess. The 4330 figure seems most suspect.

 

[peakbagger]

The best reference for elevations in the whites bar none is Brad Washburn's map published in 1988. It was done while he was working on his map of Everest. Worth getting a copy if you don't have one.

The map has two points which I expect are the Castles, the northernmost elevation is 4458 with one just south east is 4456. I expect those are the two in the photo.

Brad's team installed extensive control points all over the whites and his white temporary benchmarks nailed to trees were located all over at spots along the trail where views to the primary control points could be obtained. The primary control points are 8" stainless steel pins set in drilled holes in rock usually at prominent points and frequently the holes were drilled with an electric impact drill powered by a portable generator that were hand carried to the site. Although they used photogrametry for the contours, all the trails were surveyed with surveying equipment to establish the control points.

 

[RichS]

Brad's team installed extensive control points all over the whites and his white temporary benchmarks nailed to trees were located all over at spots along the trail where views to the primary control points could be obtained. The primary control points are 8" stainless steel pins set in drilled holes in rock usually at prominent points and frequently the holes were drilled with an electric impact drill powered by a portable generator that were hand carried to the site. Although they used photogrametry for the contours, all the trails were surveyed with surveying equipment to establish the control points.

I have that map mounted at my place in Lincoln. Not here where I could reference it in my earlier post. Thanks for the additional background info.

 

[Grey J]

The best reference for elevations in the whites bar none is Brad Washburn's map published in 1988. It was done while he was working on his map of Everest. Worth getting a copy if you don't have one.

The map has two points which I expect are the Castles, the northernmost elevation is 4458 with one just south east is 4456. I expect those are the two in the photo.

Brad's team installed extensive control points all over the whites and his white temporary benchmarks nailed to trees were located all over at spots along the trail where views to the primary control points could be obtained. The primary control points are 8" stainless steel pins set in drilled holes in rock usually at prominent points and frequently the holes were drilled with an electric impact drill powered by a portable generator that were hand carried to the site. Although they used photogrametry for the contours, all the trails were surveyed with surveying equipment to establish the control points.

Wish I had that map but it appears to be out of print. I have noticed the stainless steel pins on summits. If those are indeed the 2 Castles in my photo (and RichS's) then they do seem about the same height, at least from that perspective. I just wasn't sure if that was one Castle or both Castles and yes, I agree RichS that the 4330 figure is the outlier. It is interesting peakbagger, that you say the Washburn map has the NW or First Castle (ascending) as 2 feet higher while the AMC WMG has the SE Castle as "slightly higher." Its not really important just interesting.

 

[peakbagger]

If you want a copy they generally pop up with a web search. There were three variants, plain paper unfolded, paper folded and Tyvek. Washburn autographed quite a few copies.

 

[Grey J]

Thanks, I'll keep a lookout for one.