The Next Big Accident Generator?

[ChrisB]

Below are the hiking instructions generated by the AI program ChatGPT. Are you ready for this?

My Query: "Hiking directions for Franconia Ridge NH"

ChatGPT Response:

The Franconia Ridge Loop in New Hampshire is a popular and challenging hike that offers stunning views of the White Mountains. Here are the general directions for hiking the Franconia Ridge Loop:

1. Start at the Lafayette Place Campground and take the Old Bridle Path trail to the summit of Mount Lafayette.

2. From the summit of Mount Lafayette, follow the Franconia Ridge Trail to the summit of Little Haystack Mountain.

3. Continue along the Franconia Ridge Trail to the summit of Mount Lincoln.

4. From Mount Lincoln, follow the Falling Waters Trail down to the Lafayette Place Campground.

It's important to note that this hike can be strenuous and challenging, especially for those who are not in good physical condition. It's also important to be prepared for changing weather conditions and to bring plenty of water and food. It's recommended to start early in the day and to be aware of the weather forecast before heading out on the trail.

It's also recommended to bring a map and compass, or a GPS device, as well as a first aid kit, in case of an emergency. Additionally, it's important to be aware of the rules and regulations of the White Mountain National Forest and to follow Leave No Trace principles while on the trail.

 

[ChrisB]

And this in response to my next query...

Query: Dangers?

ChatGPT Reply:

There are certain dangers to be aware of when hiking the Franconia Ridge Loop in New Hampshire:

1. Weather: The weather in the White Mountains can change rapidly, and it's important to be prepared for rain, wind, and cold temperatures. Make sure to check the weather forecast before starting your hike and bring appropriate clothing and gear.

2. Trail Conditions: The Franconia Ridge Loop is a strenuous hike and can be challenging, especially in wet or slippery conditions. Make sure to pay attention to your footing, especially on rocky and steep sections of the trail.

3. Altitude Sickness: The Franconia Ridge Loop reaches elevations over 4,000 feet, and some people may experience altitude sickness. Symptoms include headache, dizziness, and fatigue. If you experience these symptoms, it's important to descend to a lower elevation immediately.

4. Hydration: It's important to stay hydrated on the trail, especially in hot weather. Make sure to bring enough water and to drink frequently.

5. Wildlife: The White Mountains are home to black bears and other wildlife, so it's important to be aware of your surroundings and to follow safe wildlife practices.

6.Navigation: Make sure to bring a map and compass, or a GPS device, and to know how to use them. It's also a good idea to inform someone of your hiking plans, including your intended route and expected return time.

By being aware of these dangers and taking appropriate precautions, you can help ensure a safe and enjoyable hike on the Franconia Ridge Loop.



So gang, if you have not played with ChatGPT you might want to. It's the future form of the hiking guide. And god knows what else. And unlike many hikers, it gets smarter every time you talk to it!

Welcome to the future.

 

[Ken MacGray]

Ugh, this makes me sad.

 

[Grey J]

Altitude sickness? Can you get altitude sickness at 4,000 feet or even at 5,000 feet? Great directions! Will followers realize they were led down the garden path when they get to Liberty? Oops.

 

[egilbe]

I had to double check that Mt Lincoln wasn't moved.

 

[nartreb]

As someone who's worked at the intersection of computer programming and natural language, that was kind of fun. It starts out with a direct quote that's been seen on a few popular websites, but quickly you see the program inserting its own wording.

If you are familiar with auto-complete on your phone, that is basically what ChatGPT is doing, though mostly on a larger scale (and using a larger database): "what's the next sentence?" rather than just "what's the next word?"

Bear in mind that ChatGPT has zero capacity for skepticism and zero direct knowledge. What do most web pages agree are the peaks near Mt Lafayette? Haystack and Lincoln. If you want them in some particular order, ChatGPT might be able to do that, but you have to ask for that specifically. What dangers are you likely to encounter in the mountains? Altitude sickness. It's got enough training to "know" that warnings about altitude sickness usually mention the mountain's elevation, and it remembers which mountain it's talking about, but it doesn't have the capacity (it could, but it is designed not to spend that much time) to double-check whether altitude sickness has some kind of minimum elevation requirement.

This article illustrates what happens when designers fail to appreciate the limitations of this kind of program's grasp of semantics:
https://arstechnica.com/information...ills-its-secrets-via-prompt-injection-attack/

edit: and if that's too technical, enjoy the spectacle of ChatGPT trying to play chess against a superhuman chess program:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSCNW1OCk_M
Here we see two very different kinds of AI: ChatGPT is a general-purpose learner with no concept of reality but plenty of creativity. It will make up an answer that seems close to answers to similar questions, no matter how nonsensical the answer given might be in the particular situation. (In this sense, ChatGPT is a ******** artist, or a college sophomore. The term "hallucination" has also been applied to how some AIs go about filling in details that they don't actually train on or that they can't remember.) Whereas Stockfish is a special-purpose AI with zero imagination. The clash between the two is rather humorous.

 

[skiguy]

Question: "ChatGPT what are Snowshoes"?
Answer:"A North American hare with large hairy hind feet, fairly small ears, and a white winter coat".

 

[Nessmuk]

I remember an early computer language translator from the 1960's or early 1970’s Clold War era that was famously asked to translate a phrase from the Bible in English into Russian and back to English again.

In English: “The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak”


Computerese In Russian:”????????????????????”

Return to English: “The vodka is good, but the meat is rotten”

 

[RichS]

This discussion about 'bots claiming to be too smart for their own good has been ongoing for decades.

In the mid 70s, MIT's ELIZA was still talked about on campus. This program was a pattern-matching algorithm masquerading as a psychotherapist, and half its users were convinced they were typing to a real person. I can see the conversation...

> I'm concerned that too many people are going into dangerous conditions without preparation.
< What makes you so concerned?
> People repeat the same mistakes on the same trails.
< Have you made these mistakes on these trails?
> Long ago, but I learned from them.
< Can you give me an example?
> I went above treeline on GreenLeaf Trail without knowing the weather forecast.
< How important is knowing the weather forecast?
> It can make the difference between life and death.
< I am sorry many people seem indifferent to life and death.
...

 

[Mohamed Ellozy]

I asked Google's Bard the same question: "Hiking directions for Franconia Ridge NH" and got the marginally worse reply:


The Franconia Ridge Loop is a 9-mile, 7-hour hike that traverses Mount Lafayette, Mount Lincoln, and Little Haystack, along the second-highest range of peaks in the White Mountains. It is arguably one of the most popular and best hikes New England has to offer, with breathtaking views in the White Mountains.
Directions:

1. Start at the Lafayette Campground in Franconia Notch State Park.
2. Take the Falling Waters Trail to Little Haystack Mountain.
3. Continue on the Falling Waters Trail to Mount Lincoln.
4. Connect to the Franconia Ridge Trail and hike to Mount Lafayette.
5. Follow the Franconia Ridge Trail back to the Lafayette Campground.

Tips:

• This hike is strenuous and requires good fitness.
• Be prepared for high winds and cold temperatures, even in the summer.
• Bring plenty of water and snacks.
• Let someone know where you are going and when you expect to be back.
• Be aware of your surroundings and watch for loose rocks and slippery surfaces.

The views:
The views from Franconia Ridge are simply stunning. You can see for miles in every direction, and on a clear day you can even see the Presidential Range to the south. The ridge is also home to a variety of wildlife, including deer, moose, and black bears.
The experience:
Hiking the Franconia Ridge Loop is an unforgettable experience. The views are breathtaking, the challenge is rewarding, and the feeling of accomplishment at the end is unbeatable. If you're looking for a challenging hike with stunning views, the Franconia Ridge Loop is the perfect choice.

Sources​

info
1. newengland.com/today/travel/new-hampshire/white-mountains/franconia-ridge-loop/...
2. newengland.com/travel/new-hampshire/franconia-ridge-loop/...

 

[Rhody Seth]

I mean, that's a pretty great synopsis of the hike as far as I can see.

 

[Mohamed Ellozy]

The text is good (that is why it can write essays for students) but Falling Waters does not go to Mt Lincoln, and Franconia Ridge does not go all the way to Lafayette Campground. Also I have mnever seen any wildlife on the ridge.

 

[Rhody Seth]

The text is good (that is why it can write essays for students) but Falling Waters does not go to Mt Lincoln, and Franconia Ridge does not go all the way to Lafayette Campground. Also I have mnever seen any wildlife on the ridge.

Yes yes, you can find plenty to nitpick if you really want but as a general guide to get someone up and down Franconia Ridge I think it's pretty good, considering it was written by a computer program.

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

Yes yes, you can find plenty to nitpick if you really want but as a general guide to get someone up and down Franconia Ridge I think it's pretty good, considering it was written by a computer program.

I very much disagree. Misdirecting hikers onto the wrong trails exacerbates the problems we already have on the summit of Lafayette (i.e., sending hikers north towards Garfield on the Franconia Ridge Trail does not get hikers back to Lafayette Campground where they begin the CCW Franconia loop hike). Remember, probably more than 90% of hikers who attempt the FR loop do not carry a map, a compass, or a GPS. We already spend too many hundreds of hours, including dozens of hours at night, every year rescuing hikers who make the the wrong turn on the summit of Lafayette. There are entire threads on VftT dedicated to this exact problem location. Sorry, I am indeed a nitpicker when it comes to deplorable disinformation.

 

[Rhody Seth]

It's clearly not ready for prime time and I missed that it didn't direct people down the Bridal Path but erroneously called it the Franconia Ridge Trail. That could be a bad mistake. It's not there yet. Still, I think it's very impressive for what it is.

Remember, probably more than 90% of hikers who attempt the FR loop do not carry a map, a compass, or a GPS.

Is that true?

 

[JoshandBaron]

It's clearly not ready for prime time and I missed that it didn't direct people down the Bridal Path but erroneously called it the Franconia Ridge Trail. That could be a bad mistake. It's not there yet. Still, I think it's very impressive for what it is.



Is that true?

No. Anyone with a phone has a GPS. I doubt any of them hike without that.

 

[Grey J]

The text is good (that is why it can write essays for students) but Falling Waters does not go to Mt Lincoln, and Franconia Ridge does not go all the way to Lafayette Campground. Also I have mnever seen any wildlife on the ridge.

That's an interesting and revealing error by the AI. There are of course deer, bear, and moose "in the area" but the AI fails to distinguish the general area from the ridge itself. The only wildlife I recall seeing on the ridge are hawks, though small mammals would not surprise me.

 

[ChrisB]

I very much disagree. Misdirecting hikers onto the wrong trails exacerbates the problems we already have on the summit of Lafayette ... We already spend too many hundreds of hours, including dozens of hours at night, every year rescuing hikers who make the the wrong turn on the summit of Lafayette.

So this is what I don't get: If his problem is very common place and costly to SAR, why is it allowed to persist?

Obviously the signage at the summit junction is NOT doing the job of directing the great unwashed down to the hut and thence home.

So fix it already!!

Better call Saul, or the AMC or maybe even the FS. Two out of three are major stake holders when folks get lost.

 

[Lone Stranger]

So this is what I don't get: If his problem is very common place and costly to SAR, why is it allowed to persist?

Obviously the signage at the summit junction is NOT doing the job of directing the great unwashed down to the hut and thence home.

So fix it already!!

Better call Saul, or the AMC or maybe even the FS. Two out of three are major stake holders when folks get lost.

I think the failure point is the same as many other problem intersections; people don't take time to read the signs and compare them with the map they didn't bring along. If you stop at the crossroads and only go on after making sure you are headed where you think you are headed it eliminates a lot of the issues.

 

[Willoughby]

The text is good (that is why it can write essays for students) but Falling Waters does not go to Mt Lincoln, and Franconia Ridge does not go all the way to Lafayette Campground. Also I have mnever seen any wildlife on the ridge.

Hiking the Franconia Ridge Loop, following these directions, would certainly be an unforgettable experience!

P.S. @RichS In the early '80s there was an MIT hack that hooked Eliza up to a Zippy the Pinhead quote generator