The Presi Traverse March 21-22, a success, but not without incident

[LRiz]

I've found that they ascend much better than descend. When those things lose their grip, you may be in for a slide!

This is a VERY accurate statement. It's the descents on microspikes, in particular, that can really get you into a tough situation.

Whilst climbing the Hancocks this past Sunday, I had no problem whatsoever using them to ascend the North Peak - in fact, they worked beautifully. However, when making my way down from South Peak, which was very hard-packed and slick, I made the decision not to switch over to crampons... and ended up taking a pretty scary fall and sliding about 40 feet. To make matters worse, I also had opted to leave my ice axe strapped to my pack, which meant that I was unable to self-arrest. It took three attempts at tree-grabbing for me to stop myself - a very scary situation that left me shocked and will really make me think twice before descending steep trails on microspikes again.

 

[Amantio]

Carry both?

Great TR. Thought provoking and sobering.

I do not own microspikes, however I see people using with them all the time.
For the life of me, I can't understand why someone would carry both microspikes and crampons, but to each his own. Just curious- do you think microspikes can get a hiker (especially an inexperienced hiker) into terrain that they will not be able to negotiate?

Forgive us, wardsgirl, for we have sinned.

Mrs. Amantio and I were on Pierce and Eisenhower the day before the mishap. Both of us carried both light traction (Microspikes for me, Stabilicers for her) and we both used them both, with my wife using the Stabilicers early on the ascent, me donning the Microspikes along the ridge. Both of us switched into crampons on the way down Eisenhower because, as Rocket points out, light traction (and bare boots, for that matter) will get you up there, but can leave you very vulnerable on the way down.

Why both? Crampons would have been overkill for me for most of the ascent. Microspikes don't weigh much and are easy on and off. Stabilicers, on the other hand, are more bulky, are just as much of a pain to get on as crampons, and, as my wife found out when she looked back and found the left one sitting in the middle of the trail behind her, are not as secure on the feet. Mrs. Amantio had never been in crampons before this descent, and had been spooked by some comments fom others of how hard they are on the knees. She quickly became converted, though, as we crossed slabs of ice and bit into crusted snow on the way down with a confidence that would have been entirely lacking with the light traction

 

[giggy]

Great report dangergirl -

I have yet to make the microspikes purchase myself. I don't know - call me old skool or whatever, but just don't trust the things at all.... I have seen freinds use them and they just don't look all that stable on hard snow and ice. I think maybe ok for most of the 48, but I am not sold on them above treeline on the water ice and hard snow that the pressies and franconia get.

I am glad it worked out for you guys.

just my opinion - they are like (a) holes - everyone's got one

sounds like a great trip tho - this stuff happens on bigger hikes/climbs something goes wrong and the team deals with it and its something you remember for a while. Great pix!!!

 

[ColdRiverRun]

I find Microspikes to be very useful in frozen granular conditions, as well as low angle black ice, etc.
Absolutely. I've found that they ascend much better than descend. When those things lose their grip, you may be in for a slide!

I find that people in general ascend much better than they descend if they are trying to stay on there feet. Isn't there like some little mountain saying like, "make sure you go up something before you try to go down it" when it comes to the steep stuff?


I think microspikes are probably the best new product on the market of the last 5 years for hikers. They are extremely durable given what most people put them through. The issue as far as I'm concerned isn't as much depth of the spike it self but the fact that the spikes are more centrally located with the micro's where as crampons are generally manufactured to the outside of the foot. So, when side sloping the edge digs right in where you place it. Where as when your wearing the micros and you place your foot down the edge of your boot might hit the ice first causing it to have a glancing off effect and angling your foot as you place your foot down causing you to lose control.

No front points are obvious, there aren't any like no toe pick on hockey skates, doesn't mean you can't skate with them. Your just not going to free climb an ice flow.

 

[BobC]

Microspikes are definitely not made for hard ice and and any kind of serious above-treeline travel. This weekend I hiked up to Chocorua and they were perfect for the hard-packed trail below treeline. But when I got above treeline there were some tricky spots and I wondered if I should switch over to crampons, but instead, I just stepped on as much bare rock as I could. This was fine on the way to the summit. But on the way down, I slipped on an icy patch and went down hard. I should have used the crampons when I saw how serious the ice was.

 

[hikes-with-him]

I agree with the microspikes discussions...

When we first got ours...we ended up on our tushies many times due to the fact that they are NOT crampons. They are good for adding traction and for assisiting with softer, not so steep ice. BUT...if you can get up with microspikes you may NOT necessarily be able to get down safely with them. You have to point your feet STRAIGHT down and set your toes. They do NOT like to be "side stepped" and they can "roll" under.

We always take both (ok, not always, but...)

 

[MadRiver]

I will admit I always carry both. I use the micros more for hard snow like a groomed xc trail or a snowmobile trail than hard ice. I also find the micros useful when the trail fluctuates between hard snow, light ice and bare rock. I do not like to walk across rock in my crampons. On the way up to Gray Knob on the 15th KevinMac kept his micros on the whole trip while I switched to crampons for better grip. I also agree that descending in micros can be challenging at times so if there is any chance of slipping, I will immediately throw on the crampons. I do not mind carrying both, and I tend to use both during a trip.

 

[leaf]

nice report dangergirl. if you don't mind all this microspike/crampon bander, i'll add my 5 cents.

i just climbed the trap dyke in microspikes yesterday. they get two thumbs up from me! you wouldn't think the front points were solid, but they worked well!

i carry both. it's a real pain in the ankles to walk 20 miles with your feet elevated from crampons and getting off balance constantly on the thin ice/rocky sections of the trail. ugh! might as well hike the traverse in summer on rollerblades! spikes keep your feet on the ground over rocks while providing really good traction on thin ice and hard crust alike. there were two sections where i thought switching up to crampons from the spikes would have been a good idea and they were both spots where i was on an angled traverse across a hardpacked/icey snowfield. of course i'm lazy and didn't switch, but i had that option as least.

i disagree with you, bobc, spikes worked awesome the entire time above treeline last weekend. we hit every type of ice imaginable up there.

 

[Neil]

Gear is just gear.

You have to know when what is going to work for you. Then you have to put your software and hardware hard to work to get that gear to do what it's supposed to do.

I wouldn't take a brand new piece of untried gear out of the box and do soemthing new.

(Also, the temperature of water ice is an important factor. )

Prediction: Micro-spikes will win gear of the century.

 

[Tim Seaver]

Not Without Incident - The Movie

Yes, Leaf I would agree - alternative traction devices can work quite well above treeline. It's more about the angle of the slope under your feet and the hardness of the ice/snow. Another factor to consider (I think Chouinard mentioned this in his "Climbing Ice" classic) is not so much if you could take a fall, but the possible consequences of that fall in any given terrain, so if there is a runout, caution would favor crampons in a lot of places.

I would also guess that heavier people and folks carrying overnight gear are going to be putting quite a bit more shear force on the microspike points, so this might be another place where crampons are the better choice.

The Kahtoola steel crampons are perfect for a Presi Traverse when things are on the icier side ( but not insane water ice everywhere) - the points are only 1" long, so you can keep them on through rocky sections without the discomfort and fatigue that full crampons might cause. And they are light!

 

[DougPaul]

For the life of me, I can't understand why someone would carry both microspikes and crampons, but to each his own. Like Tim said, if you only had microspikes, your decision regarding what to use was made for you.

It can be difficult to walk on rocks with crampons and the points wear down. When you are on a route with lots of sections of bare rock and easy ice/packed snow/icy snow, you can waste a lot of time taking your crampons on and off. With microspikes or stabilicers, you just put them on and walk over everything.

However, if the snow/ice gets too difficult for safe use of microspikes or stabilicers, then one should change to crampons.

Just curious- do you think microspikes can get a hiker (especially an inexperienced hiker) into terrain that they will not be able to negotiate?

Any traction aid can get the semi-skilled into a spot that is difficult to get out of. Planning ahead to prevent such problems before they occur (ie turn back, change route, change traction aids, get out the rope, etc) is an important skill.

Doug

 

[leaf]

(Also, the temperature of water ice is an important factor. )

Yeah, oops! Good point! Heh. Luckily the temperature of the ice we encountered up there was awesome.

The Kahtoola steel crampons are perfect for a Presi Traverse when things are on the icier side ( but not insane water ice everywhere) - the points are only 1" long, so you can keep them on through rocky sections without the discomfort and fatigue that full crampons might cause. And they are light!

I saw those Kahtoola steel crampons with the smaller spikes last weekend actually. Cruddy has a pair. Agreed!

The real question here is, what the heck other kind of ice is there besides water ice? Ice comes from water right? heh heh.

 

[DougPaul]

The real question here is, what the heck other kind of ice is there besides water ice? Ice comes from water right? heh heh.

Sometimes.

There is also rime ice, alpine ice, and glacier ice (pretty rare in the Whites these days... ).

I suppose I should also mention sea ice too, but I've never seen any in the Whites either...

Doug

 

[BobC]

Obviously it's all a matter of what makes you feel the most comfortable. I'm probably more nervous than the average hiker when it comes to ice. It didn't help that I shattered some bones in my right hand about a year ago, just from a fall in my driveway. The crunching sound of bones breaking is still too fresh a memory...

So, while I've often touted the greatness of Microspikes and will continue to use them when appropriate, I think it should still be noted (and should be fairly obvious to everyone) that crampons = more traction, while Microspikes = less traction. I mean, the whole reason we're talking about this is due to what happened to Dangergirl's friends. The ones with Microspikes fell; the ones with crampons didn't.

Dangergirl, sorry for continuing the thread hijack. Great trip report, glad to hear everyone got out relatively unscathed.

 

[Tim Seaver]

Dangergirl, sorry for continuing the thread hijack. Great trip report, glad to hear everyone got out relatively unscathed.

Agreed on all points. I'll shut up now.

 

[MadRiver]

I do not believe it is a hijack per se, we are simply commenting on something that happened during her trip, and the gear involved. We have a tendency, or at least I do, of glossing over or eliminated any reference to making a bad decision, especially if it can or does result in injury. The good and bad of a trip report can be extremely helpful for all concerned. Just my .02 cents.

 

[dangergirl]

I use microspikes for short local hikes when I am training with a backpack. I did notice that the heavier the weight in my pack the less stable they are. I also found that they are great to run in and move quickly in! I feel more comfortable in the mountains with crampons because that is what I am used to. I think it is all about comfort and is a personal decision.

 

[OldMan]

Having only purchased crampons late this winter and using them once I had been using microspikes and MSRs for traction. Your TR makes me glad I bought crampons!