The Taxman Cometh for the AMC?

[Sherpa John]

To get non profit status from the IRS is a very involved process. The application is very thorough and detailed. In my experience, a specific IRS investigating officer is assigned to go over the application, and all information is thoroughly reviewed before non profit status is granted. The penalties for abuse of the non profit status are severe. Usually these situations don't arise in a vacuum, there is always a story behind the story, someone stirring the pot, so to speak. It will be interesting to see what happens.

WOW! I did something wrong then. All I did to make Team Sherpa was log onto the IRS website, fill out a quick form and before I knew it... I was a Non-profit with a Tax ID Number and everything. Perhaps I overlooked something? There was no thorough and detailed application or IRS man knocking on the door... just a 5 minute online app.

 

[dms]

The applications I have submitted were for educational institutions, which are incorporated as non profit entities, with and involve substantial public fund raising efforts. I can only base my observations on those situations.

 

[BrentD22]

non-profit status

1st off I would like to comment on the fact that there are many different levels of "non-profit". The complex application for non-profit is a non-profit 401(c)3. It is the most complex process to complete and usually requires a lawyer that specializes in this. Anyone can declare some a non-profit organization, but they are not allowed to have paid staff, charge for services, ect. It's VERY complicated trust me!

Non-profit companies that become "large" do lots of great things. They also forget about what it is all about at times. A lot of their income goes to highly paid senior staff and directors not to speak of about pensions and what not. I also believe that some non-profits that become large effect regular for-profit companies. YMCA's that act as non-profits employ staff at very nice salaries often above the industry norm. The push out small local health clubs that don't have the luggury of the non-profit status. The local clubs can't solicite donations from the public either like the YMCA can. The AMC needs to remember who they are and what they are about. I think it's great for the AMC to have a good cash flow so they can have money to pay for the good stuff they do, but preseption becomes reality for most people. Currently my preception about the AMC is that they now charge very high rates for most services. Making me think about where is this money going? I know from direct knowledge that their seasonal staff is paid min. wage or close to that. Yes the hut system, trail crews, the educational programs, YOP, and other programs they run cost lots of money. I also wonder about how much does the senior staff and directors get paid? How much money is wasted on silly studies that allow the AMC to build more structures in places that the structures are not needed? KISS - Keep it simple stupid! I don't know maybe I'm wrong, but isn't that the point. People not just me are becoming more interested in how big the AMC is getting. Maybe they should pay a little attention to the reputation they are starting to get. Preception is your reality!

 

[Gris]

just a 5 minute online app

Yup, formed quite a few 501(c)(3) s myself. Aint' no 5 minute on-line form. Takes longer than that just to do the budget, let alone get the corp. docs right...

 

[dms]

Brent, just a quick comment on your comment that Y's are running out private clubs because of their non profit status. The local Y I am a Trustee of is an "inner city" Y, our mission is to deliver programs to youngsters of very limited means at little or no cost to the participants. We run at a monthly deficit, thankfully we have an endowment, from fund raising efforts, which allows us to keep the doors open. Most of our staff is piad not much more than minimum wage salaries. On top of that, we are competing with Gold's Gym, and World Gym, not to mention Cedardale, which is one of the largest private clubs in the country. To the best of my knowledge none of these privates offer programs to disadvantaged youth. For us, the loss of non profit status would be a death sentence.

 

[RGF1]

I like most of the people on VVFT of course are not tax attorneys So I do not know if we were to look into the AMC”s financial records and see just how much goes in to trail maintenance , backcountry sites the YOP and real conservation efforts not token “research” , or buying land to build a new resort facility on it . Also how the Crawford Complex AKA” Ritz Crawford” and Highland Center. Is operated should be part of any consideration If only people who are paying customers can use or park at the Crawford Complex and use its facilities then it is no longer just a hiking and conservation organization. Offering packages at ski areas and charging to use their new ‘conference center ,”does not seem to fit with being a Non Profit. At that point the AMC is on the way to becoming a private for profit resort and guiding outfitter.
I do know they charge high prices for the use of their facilities. I know that a for profit outfitter or say a skiing resort pays a higher Use Fee to the USFS .
Before I left the AMC I spent a few nights at Pinkham in January of 2004 they had foreign temporary workers serving meals and cleaning. I was surprised being used to a young college student or some young person into hiking and or skiing working there. I am sure they had the foreign workers there to keep wages and benefits down.
Bricky is right about how perception. I think the AMC is rapidly becoming perceived as an outfitter and high priced resort operator not a Hiking and conservation club.
Hopefully the powers that be at the USFS or USDA and the IRS come to the same conclusions that many of us have and revoke the AMC’s Non-Profit status. And charge them the same rates that other for profit outfitters and resorts pay along with their fair share of taex . maybe a real organization that is a real non profit hiking and conservation club will form in the AMCs place. Oh what about the paying to “Volunteer?” That is not the behavior of a Non Profit hiking and conservation organization. .

 

[NHGal]

I'm very glad to see this issue getting some attention (and some good, civilized discussion as well). As I was reading an earlier post about the educational programs at the HC, I couldn't help but think that if I owned a hotel in Twin Mt., I'd periodically invite and advertise a speaker, then claim myself as an educational facility. Seems not to matter whether the guests attend or not. I think their complete non-profit status is completely unfair. Right up there with the Bethlehem dump being declared tax exempt because it's a "pollution control facility".

As to foreign workers, I'm far more sympathetic to the AMC on that one. Many of the facilities up here have difficulty attracting and retaining winter employees (witness the nametags at Bretton Woods identifying the home countries of their liftrats -- Brazil, Chile, South Africa, Poland). Yes, they could find more reliable local workers if they paid more, but as a non-profit organization, they would look bad if they were paying their kitchen staff $15/hour, and there would be doubtless be people belly-aching about that as well. Rock, meet hard place.