The Trail is Now Packed

[Kevin Rooney]

As always, Cath makes some excellent points. And what she says about the effects of wind on trail conditions goes double (IMHO) for the ADKs. While my experience there is much more limited than in the Whites, they (the ADKs) are more susceptible to blowing snow simply because snowfall there is much greater than in the Whites.

As for observations on 'trail denting' ... I leave that to others! I am very appreciative of Cath's love for breaking trail.

 

[dug]

I bring this up every year when this thread comes out, so I guess I will again this year, too.

We encourage/mandate snowshoes, so we can ensure a nice easy platform to walk on. This makes it difficult to ski, since your skis get stuck in the path and you can't turn.

What about butt-glissade? I've seen the trail completely smoothed over after someone slide down a trail, wiping clean the kick-steps that had been set up to make the steeper sections much easier.

You aren't allowed to hike on a ski trail, but you can ski on a hiking trail.

Should the first person breaking trail also be the tallest, so they can clear the branches of snow for the rest of us?

Should we be cleaning ice off the rocks when crossing the streams, thereby making it easier (and much safer) for the next person?

How much "consideration" should we be taking into account to make sure the trail is in "good shap" for the next person? Where do we draw the line?

 

[dave.m]

We encourage/mandate snowshoes, so we can ensure a nice easy platform to walk on. This makes it difficult to ski, since your skis get stuck in the path and you can't turn.
(snip...)
How much "consideration" should we be taking into account to make sure the trail is
in "good shap" for the next person? Where do we draw the line?

Regarding the skiing on hiking trails and speaking as a devoted backcountry skier (I've stuck up a web site on the matter for heaven's sake so I'm either committed or should be), I have zero patience for skiers who complain about hikers on hiking trails. In particular, snow shoe trenches should not be an issue for skiers. Ever. On the uphill when you are skinning, the snow shoe trench is a help. On the downhill run, 95% of the hiking trails in New England are much too narrow to turn on with any ski over 130cm in length. The very, very, very best you are going to accomplish is a power wedge (snowplow) and this works only in certain pitches and snow conditions. With a trench, you can do a 1 ski and 1 ski out in a braking stem and honestly, that's about as much braking as you're going to get on a hiking trail anyhow. Skiers who complain about trenches are using the trenches as a scape goat for their unrealistic expectations about the downhill run. If you want to enjoy the downhill, find a glade or ski trail.

The only place I get upset about foot traffic (snowshoe or boot) is when there is a trail is flat and it is wide enough for 2 lanes of traffic and then the foot travelers end up walking in the ski tracks. The trail to Greeley Pond from Waterville is one such place. But honestly, this is mostly a front country problem and it decreases the further out from the trail head you get. Still, when I skied the Livermore Road loop with afka_bob last weekend, we found foot traffic in the ski tracks along the lower reaches of the Livermore road. Clearly they were tired climbers coming off of Tripyramid. I understand why they were walking in the ski tracks though.

Regarding where to draw the lines, I guess I firmly err on the side of freedom of the hills. I'm all for better signage at trail heads that describe good trail ettiquet. Using snowshoes when postholing is possibility is one. Not walking in ski tracks on flat wide trails is another. But at the end of the day, I see foot trails as being open to all foot travelers (unless there are real errosion issues).

 

[bikehikeskifish]

...The trail to Greeley Pond from Waterville is one such place...

I hiked this earlier in the year. Someone had skied it earlier in the AM. The tracks went right down the center of the trail. Being a (considerate) skier, I walked on either side, and had to cross the tracks many times(*). It would work out much better if we all made some effort to make first tracks (ski, hike) on one side or the other, leaving from for the other first tracks (hike, ski) on the other side. I was bare-booting, as it was the 1st 5" of fresh powder for the year. In the bottom of the ski tracks you could make out the grass and dirt below.

As an example, I tracked the AVIS river walk in Andover (MA) for use at lunch. I stayed as far right as practical. 7 days later, the tracks are largely intact. Most boot/'shoe prints are down the middle or along the other side. Of course one day I tracked the other side with my snowshoes, which probably gave folks a hint.

Tim
(*) On my way out, there came a group of 8, walking 4 abreast which demolished any sign of tracks. Sigh.

 

[sierra]

This is a timely thread for me. Ive never been a fan of telling people how to hike, also Ive always found the law in NY disturbing even though I dont hike there. That being said, I hiked Mt. Clinton on Sat. me and about 8 people before me packed it out to the summit with snowshoes. I was looking foward to a beautifull running descent, when much to my dismay, at least 5 people had "barebooted" the nice track that had been cut. This did make the trail quite harder to descend, one guy I talked to even had snowshoes strapped to his pack. Im proboly still not ready to regulate snowshoes in the Whites as NY does, but man, I think its a shame that such a great trail gets "cut up" so fast.
Just for the record, I took of my shoes near the bottom to test the trail and anyone barebooting had a much harder time ascended then with snowshoes, I guess in closing, I would ask, why bareboot in deep fresh snow? its way harder then snowshoeing, that being said if the reason someone gave was not being able to afford snowshoes, that I could understand.

 

[NewHampshire]

I came into winter hiking late in last winters season. I delt mostly with well and hard packed trails. This year I have been slow to catch on that snowshoes are my friend. I have been on a few trips this year that SHOULD have been fairly "easy" (or at least easier than they turned out to be) but because I did not wear the snowshoes I worked harder than I had to. Long story short.....

I'm wearing the snowshoes from now untill the trails get rocky again .

Brian

 

[DougPaul]

This did make the trail quite harder to descend, one guy I talked to even had snowshoes strapped to his pack. Im proboly still not ready to regulate snowshoes in the Whites as NY does, but man, I think its a shame that such a great trail gets "cut up" so fast.
Just for the record, I took of my shoes near the bottom to test the trail and anyone barebooting had a much harder time ascended then with snowshoes, I guess in closing, I would ask, why bareboot in deep fresh snow? its way harder then snowshoeing, that being said if the reason someone gave was not being able to afford snowshoes, that I could understand.

One of the problems is that many seem to view snowshoes as a tecnique of last resort. If they never try them in "easy" conditions, they will never discover how much easier these conditions will become.

Doug

 

[MadRiver]

I can say this -- Every purchase I make at EMS is frowned upon by the family CFO. Tim

I did find an interesting way around this problem by buying my CFO the same piece of gear that I buy. Although my wife doesn’t winter hike, and she is the only female in her company, she does have the bragging rights to be the only employee that owns a pair of crampons and an ice axe. Even though she doesn’t use them, she does take pride in owning them, especially to her testosterone laden co-workers.

Here is another trick, though a tad unethical, is to buy a piece of gear and hide it for several months. When you finally bring it out you can honestly say, “But Hon I had this for months.” I am so going to burn in Hell.

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

For everyone out on the trails, please be considerate and use your snowshoes. If we all do, the trails will form a super hi-way smooth base that will last well into Spring. It's so much more pleasant to hike on a smooth trail than one that resembles a Moose Dance Party.

Now, if we can only get those moose to use snowshoes, we will be getting somewhere.

I usually dread their post holes when skiing the Thoreau Falls or Shoal Pond sections of the Pemi ski-through, but at least this weekend those moose post holes should be a little softer than usual.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

...by buying my CFO the same piece of gear that I buy

Does she also own a K-BAR?

Tim

 

[MadRiver]

To be honest, her brother a former Marine bought her the K-Bar in question. It is her knife, not mine, though I did carrry it for awhile.

 

[Cath]

Wearing crampons doesn't equate to earning a merit badge

This is my outlook regarding the first Winter gear folks should look to own, other than clothing.

Snowshoes come before crampons. Snowshoes allow us to explore the snow covered winter trails. Today's model's all seem to have fantastic Crampons mounted on them (unlike the one's of 20 years ago) which provide sufficient traction for most trails. Traction that will motor you along efficiently on a somewhat packed or unpacked surface, and traction on firm & slick surface conditions. All the while, keeping the trail from getting rutted, broken down, globbed up.

Folks just getting started with Winter hiking, though we all are keen on getting above treeline, up on the Presi's, etc. sooner than later, ought to look
to get a little experience under their belts, before tackling more technical terrain, which require crampons AND experience of self in such conditions. By experience I mean, understanding winter clothing & how it works for us as individual's. How your body re-acts/adapts in the cold, hydration, etc. It is so much easier to concentrate on placing each cramponed step, when you aren't trying to figure out how to regulate your body temperature, etc.

Though we can never have enough experience, we can always continue to learn. Crampons are for ascending steep, slick terrain. They are expensive, but worth their weight in gold when that is where you are. On trails that aren't that steep, but are slick, snowshoes provide the traction needed. I see it that you get double the "bang for the buck" with snowshoes
Traction / Flotation

We all look really fancy in our photo's with our crampons on. But we look kind of silly with our crampons on when we are post-holeing.

Snowshoe crampons provide much more traction than stabiliciers. The last 2 Winters realized incredibly thin cover on the trails. Stabilicers & screw boots were indeed all that was needed on too many days. THere wasn't enough snow to sink in (post hole) and just a little traction was necessary to prevent slipping / wiping out.

Please be a good steward of the trails. Take into consideration the snow conditions of every individual day. Bring the appropriate gear and USE it.
"I was too lazy to switch from my crampons to my snowshoes. But I didn't sink too much before I reached my destination".
Sigh.

 

[Tom Rankin]

This is my outlook regarding the first Winter gear folks should look to own, other than clothing.

Excellent advice!

 

[Pete_Hickey]

This is my outlook regarding the first Winter gear folks should look to own, other than clothing.

Snowshoes come before crampons.

I'll agree wholeheartedly. As an example, I finished my winter 46 before I got crampons. And this was before the snowshoe laws in the ADKs.

 

[DougPaul]

We all look really fancy in our photo's with our crampons on. But we look kind of silly with our crampons on when we are post-holeing.

Hear! Hear! (for the entire post)

Postholing in crampons is also a good way to gore your legs, pants, and gaiters.

Doug

 

[Squintyken]

sliding scale from convenience to survival

one angle to this topic of snowshow vs. postholeing i have not seen yet, perhaps is already understood:

in some circumstances, deep snow everywhere, snow shoes may turn out to be an important piece of gear for safety.

perhaps this story is a bit particular and extreme, but it stood out in my mind:

2 hikers near the summit of Lafeyette (NH) in a winter storm (around 5 - 7 years ago). IIRC their tracks showed that they had tried to head towards Garfield where they would have at least gotten below tree line. they stopped "not far" from tree line and turned back to Lafeyette and stayed above treeline another night and day. One of them died.

as often is the case, it was probably a combination of many bad circumstances and many poor choices which led to their problems, but, perhaps (being very careful and non-judgmental with my language!) snowshoes could have helped them reach some cover below tree line.

when the snow is deep enough, snow shoes WILL allow easier travel.

if you + accumulating circumstances are pushing the envelope far enough "easier travel" becomes "yes", and "more difficult travel" becomes "no travel".

The Bigger Picture which I'm trying to point to is this: on any hike, just keep adding more and more challenges / problems / difficulties and what was considered a luxury / convenience / preference may start to become a life-saver.

of course we can plan carefully, follow the forecasts and try to not be surprised, but somehow or another complications can pile up: night, wind, colder than expected, ice, slower than expected, whiteouts, blowdowns, rain instead of snow...

I can tailor my gear choice to each hike (e.g. a much lighter pack on Wildcats ski trails b/c I never leave "civilization") but i view gear and choices on a sliding scale from convenience to survival.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

Postholing in crampons is also a good way to gore your legs, pants, and gaiters.

I must be a pro. I can do that to my legs, pants, and gaiters WITHOUT postholing.

 

[Tim Seaver]

Cath, I have to take issue with something in your post. I've seen you "break" trail. It was more like you floated over it.

Hence the nickname "Tinkerbell". The trick is to distract her long enough to toss a few good size boulders in her pack.

To make matters worse, the Department of Snowland Security has vested her with new, formidable powers.

If you find your self snowshoe-less, up to your chin in fresh powder, and you suddenly see something shiny glinting from beneath the tip of a rubber-banded ponytail, be afraid.

Be VERY afraid.

 

[dave.m]

if you + accumulating circumstances are pushing the envelope far enough "easier travel" becomes "yes", and "more difficult travel" becomes "no travel".

The Bigger Picture which I'm trying to point to is this: on any hike, just keep adding more and more challenges / problems / difficulties and what was considered a luxury / convenience / preference may start to become a life-saver.

This is a great point and one I don't disagree with it in any way. But it bears mentioning that the risk & safety considerations of equipment cuts both ways.

Snowshoes, like skis and light packs play into Chouinard's Maxim that speed is safety and this is true. But, speed also invites us to plan destinations that are further out. DougPaul was recently catching me up on a guy recently rescued from deep in the Pemi. He got in that deep that easily because of his skis.

It's long been known that technology often fails to reduce labor and just shifts standards. The washing machine did not reduce time spent on laundary. It raised the standards of cleanliness. In a similar way, safety gear often reduces one type of risk even while we assume different ones. Ski helmets come out and woods skiers ski faster in the woods. ABS brakes come out and agressive driving increases. Boxing gloves are mandated and severe brain injuries increase.

Skis, crampons, ice axes, avi beacons and shovels and such all have their place. I bring this up because its very easy for us all to get sucked into places of more risk just because we have access to safety gear.

 

[Cath]

To make matters worse, the Department of Snowland Security has vested her with new, formidable powers.

I think I made the Ski Patrol Very afraid yesterday