They Just Got No Sole!

[ChrisB]

There has been a spate of rescues in the Whites in this summer where the victims have sustained "lower leg" injuries by slipping and/or falling on descent. In several cases these incidents required carries back to the trailhead.

This made me wonder about how today's hiking footwear might be contributing to the situation...

Deeply lugged Vibram soles were once de regur for hiking footwear. Then the light-is-right revolution kicked in and footwear changed. As part of this change soles became thinner and less aggressive. And I think less secure on the often muddy-wet-slippery footing we normally encounter in the Whites in summer.

The 10 Essentials (as per AMC and REI) don't even mention adequate footwear up to the hiking task. Maybe they should?

The Latest 11th Essential -- Rugged hiking shoes with lugged (not smooth) soles

cb

 

[peakbagger]

Trail runners are pretty much the defacto footwear these days. Sure I still see Limmers on AMC folks but most caretakers and many hut crew are wearing trail runners or lightweight boots with less aggressive soles. I find my trail runners soles adequate but do find that they do wear out on occasion while the rest of the shoe is still useable. I speculate that these slips and falls are as much lack of experience as the equipment. I use hiking poles and poke my way down slopes trying to maintain three point contact but I see far more folks heading downslope with only one point contact assuming that each step will be onto a solid surface. That may work on dry rock but add in dampness mud and vegetation and the odds are far less certain.

I attribute most to the slips and falls to the inexperience of the hiker more than the equipment. Realistically I am not sure if there is actually an increased incidence per miles hiked, I think its just a whole lot more new people hiking so the total overall miles hiked is much higher. In that scenario if the incidence rate stays the same but the total miles goes up the number of accidents will increase.

I have heard in the past the observation that the reason that sturdy boots with ankle supports recommendation was mostly for benefit the occasional hiker that does not hike enough to develop their ankles. I used to have far more serious ankle twists when I used heavy boots than after switching to trail runners. These days I still roll an ankle on occasion but it usually requires a minute or two of cussing and then I am back moving. When I rolled an ankle with leather boots it was usually far more serious and it took a lot longer to heal up.

 

[TCD]

I think that's exactly right, peakbagger.

Folks can Google several previous (very detailed) threads on this.

Years ago I met a group on one of our local ADK peaks, and one young lady in her twenties was a barefoot hiker. She testified that while she does get some scratches, and an occasional toe stub, she never rolls an ankle now that she hikes barefoot.

(I'm cynical, of course, but I think any increase in these types of incidence is definitely due to increased inexperienced hiker traffic, poor trail maintenance, and the availability of cell phones to easily call for rescue. Obviously some of these cases represent an injury that actually requires a carry out. But there is a spectrum, all the way from a disabling injury requiring a carry out; through an injury which hurts, but in the old days you would hobble out; through an injury which you can walk off and will be all better in a few minutes; to the far end, the feigned injury by the "tired" hiker who just wants to quit.)

 

[Sherby]

I think that's exactly right, peakbagger.

Folks can Google several previous (very detailed) threads on this.

Years ago I met a group on one of our local ADK peaks, and one young lady in her twenties was a barefoot hiker. She testified that while she does get some scratches, and an occasional toe stub, she never rolls an ankle now that she hikes barefoot.

(I'm cynical, of course, but I think any increase in these types of incidence is definitely due to increased inexperienced hiker traffic, poor trail maintenance, and the availability of cell phones to easily call for rescue. Obviously some of these cases represent an injury that actually requires a carry out. But there is a spectrum, all the way from a disabling injury requiring a carry out; through an injury which hurts, but in the old days you would hobble out; through an injury which you can walk off and will be all better in a few minutes; to the far end, the feigned injury by the "tired" hiker who just wants to quit.)

Saw a big group coming up the Loop trail on Tumbledown (Weld) last weekend with their only gear being a water bottle they had to carry with their mouth to use their hands to get past some rocks, obviously, their shoes weren't any better

 

[egilbe]

Flip flops are good enough for the majority of people

 

[JoshandBaron]

I broke my foot on day 3 of a 6 day trip on Tuesday in the Great Gulf. No surprise I was wearing trail runners. Took a bad step, slipped on a wet rock, wedged my foot between two boulders and just crushed my foot. I also then proceded to go back to camp, pack up, and hike the remaining 4.25 miles out despite having a Spot. Took 7 hours. Most painful thing I've ever done.Probably wouldn't have happened had I been wearing shoes with a sturdier sole. However, I won't be switching back to boots.

 

[HAMTERO]

Busted

I broke my foot on day 3 of a 6 day trip on Tuesday in the Great Gulf. No surprise I was wearing trail runners. Took a bad step, slipped on a wet rock, wedged my foot between two boulders and just crushed my foot. I also then proceded to go back to camp, pack up, and hike the remaining 4.25 miles out despite having a Spot. Took 7 hours. Most painful thing I've ever done.Probably wouldn't have happened had I been wearing shoes with a sturdier sole. However, I won't be switching back to boots.

Ouch. I sprained my ankle on Adams last Sunday and had to hobble down the Sphinx, camp and hobble to Pinkham Monday something can relate. I have way better luck with trail runners especially Altras.

 

[Raven]

Foot wear is a tough call and depends on so many factors.

Grip on trail runners has equaled or exceeded that on boots at this point due to the use of softer rubber soles. It's why they get replaced a couple times a year. Many come with a plate under the foot so pointed rocks don't bother the ball or arch. They do not protect well on scree slopes but beyond that, I prefer them. A pound on the feet is five on the back.

They're not for everyone. I switched to NB trail runners in 1999/2000 and have not purchased boots since with the exception of winter boots. I don't see them as inferior in any way to boots in terms of safety but that brush doesn't paint all people. I have strong ankles. My bench press could be better.

If you watch very experienced hikers and trail runners move on a trail, they move 'through' it. Steps are extremely efficient avoiding hazards, big step ups, etc. two people can hike the same trail under the same conditions, and if one has efficient foot work, the difference in energy expended can be huge. Tired legs lead to injury. Huge backpacks put strain on ankles.

Although I don't think particular shoes can be one of the ten essentials, I do think one enters into questionable territory however upon using flip flops as we saw numerous times last summer (Percy Peaks).

Of course, lower leg injuries are probably the most common hiking injury. No matter the shoe, the trails in the Whites can simply eat up legs. I got a level 2 ankle sprain jogging slowly on the Lincoln Woods Trail last summer when I simply looked up at the wrong time.

Point taken though. Shoes do matter. In my opinion, what the bottom looks like is most important in the Whites.

 

[DayTrip]

Foot wear is a tough call and depends on so many factors.

Grip on trail runners has equaled or exceeded that on boots at this point due to the use of softer rubber soles. It's why they get replaced a couple times a year. Many come with a plate under the foot so pointed rocks don't bother the ball or arch. They do not protect well on scree slopes but beyond that, I prefer them. A pound on the feet is five on the back.

They're not for everyone. I switched to NB trail runners in 1999/2000 and have not purchased boots since with the exception of winter boots. I don't see them as inferior in any way to boots in terms of safety but that brush doesn't paint all people. I have strong ankles. My bench press could be better.

If you watch very experienced hikers and trail runners move on a trail, they move 'through' it. Steps are extremely efficient avoiding hazards, big step ups, etc. two people can hike the same trail under the same conditions, and if one has efficient foot work, the difference in energy expended can be huge. Tired legs lead to injury. Huge backpacks put strain on ankles.

Although I don't think particular shoes can be one of the ten essentials, I do think one enters into questionable territory however upon using flip flops as we saw numerous times last summer (Percy Peaks).

Of course, lower leg injuries are probably the most common hiking injury. No matter the shoe, the trails in the Whites can simply eat up legs. I got a level 2 ankle sprain jogging slowly on the Lincoln Brook Trail last summer when I simply looked up at the wrong time.

Point taken though. Shoes do matter. In my opinion, what the bottom looks like is most important in the Whites.

I severely sprained/broke my ankle in Sphinx Col in an almost new pair of Asolo Fugitives back in 2013. Plenty of grip, plenty of "ankle support", etc and still got hurt. A mid cut or high boot can't prevent an injury. I was fairly new to hiking and blame poor ankle strength. I've half rolled my ankle in a similar way many times since then, in boots and trail runners, and rarely does it even get sore, let alone actually sprain. I credit that to better conditioning from hiking a lot of miles. As Raven detailed above the condition of the soles on your shoes is one of many, many factors in an injury.

As far as soles go, when my trail runners are new they grip better than any boot I've ever worn before (I wear the Ultra Raptors). I was shocked at how well they worked. That grip comes at the expense of longevity though. They hold up well for about 100 "typical NH" miles before really loosing their traction. A worn sole on any type of shoe can be a problem.

 

[egilbe]

Saw a big group coming up the Loop trail on Tumbledown (Weld) last weekend with their only gear being a water bottle they had to carry with their mouth to use their hands to get past some rocks, obviously, their shoes weren't any better

Haha, you are describing my GF and I on our first hike together on Precipice trail in Acadia. Cotton jeans, cotton shirts, a three liter water bottle. In way over our heads together. After an exhausting 2 hour hike where we only hiked .5 miles, we gave up and walked through the woods to the road below us. We have since learned that we should be dead

 

[Stan]

My experience with low cut footwear is the opposite of some here as I've rolled (several times) and sprained (a few times) my ankle more in low cuts than hiking boots. Granted it was during soccer scrimmages but I've spent far more time and miles on the trail than a soccer pitch and never stressed the ankles on a hike. I also need the protection and support a good shank gives my feet and would suggest that some long time hikers may pay the price for lightweight footwear in their senior years.

I wouldn't hike in flip flops but tevas work in a bind and I've found them an occasional relief in certain conditions.

One thing someone mentioned that I cannot agree with is poor trail maintenance contributing to more ankle injuries. Is that a millennial thing?

 

[richard]

I’m almost 70 yrs. old and I switched to Trail Runners last year for my non Winter hikes and my feet love �� them! Hardly any more pain! I find that the softer uppers “give”more, especially on the downhill.

 

[alexmtn]

Ouch. I sprained my ankle on Adams last Sunday and had to hobble down the Sphinx, camp and hobble to Pinkham Monday something can relate. I have way better luck with trail runners especially Altras.

Ha (and not to make light of folks' pain), this thread's starting to remind me of this classic conversation between Robert Shaw and Richard Dreyfus in Jaws.

 

[jfb]

I've slipped while wearing just about everything I've ever worn. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VrFV5r8cs0

 

[Grey J]

Ha (and not to make light of folks' pain), this thread's starting to remind me of this classic conversation between Robert Shaw and Richard Dreyfus in Jaws.

Yep, I think you're gonna need a bigger boot.

 

[Peakbagr]

900 went into the water....

 

[egilbe]

Ha (and not to make light of folks' pain), this thread's starting to remind me of this classic conversation between Robert Shaw and Richard Dreyfus in Jaws.

I hope there are no sharks swimming the Wild River. That Ford is bad enough