Things are heating up over ATV trails in Nash Stream

[peakbagger]

The détente in the north country between conservation groups and the ATV, Ride the Wilds juggernaut appears to be over. The management of the Nash Stream area by the state has been somewhat of disappointment since conservation groups shamed the state into snatching the land out of certain development by friends of former governor Sununu, albeit at significant cost funded in part by those conservation groups. What was envisioned by many was a gradual removal of the former leased camps and a transition to a wilder area with a much lower sustainable timber harvest rate. There were also hopes of new hiking trail systems and overnight use with a few backcountry shelters. What really has happened is that the state manager has elected to continue the leases for perpetuity and have banned overnight use with the exception of leaseholders. The Cohos trail has spent a lot of time lobbying to run the trail system over some of the more scenic terrain, they eventually have been successful to build limited trails but it has been a battle. The explosive growth of ATVs were not envisioned when the property was purchased with a mix of state and private funds and now the state is aggressively expanding ATV use through the area contrary to the agreed upon management plan.

Some of the conservation organizations are now pushing back against the state management approach to the area. https://www.forestsociety.org/sites/default/files/7-14-16_CORD Letter_final.pdf
It is interesting to note the minimal amount of money discussed to enforce the rules on the trails, a pretty steady rumble rising in the north country is enforcement on Ride the Wilds is a farce, what few resources that are available are right out straight dealing with frequent accidents.

This is not the first time where the state acting as manager over properties with legally mandated restrictions has selectively ignored restrictions. The controversy in the Ossipee Mtn area several years ago came down to the state acting as manager allowing a land owner to ignore agreed upon restrictions that came along with a big federal check and punishing the individual who pointed out the mismanagement. The states response was to close the area to legally allowed hiker access until the snowmobile lobby complained.

Similar issues have occurred at other properties originally purchased by conservation groups and transferred to state ownership. Ski areas get leased and expanded onto protected lands and cell towers get built on wild summits despite formal agreements to the contrary with the original purchasers.

 

[Stan]

... despite formal agreements to the contrary with the original purchasers.

Are there specific land conservation organizations with a history of selling or turning over conservation easements or land donations to state or federal agencies? I know it can be a source of cash or operational savings which frees up funds for other acquisitions or easements but if the original intent of the private landowner is lost then landowners need to be more selective in the conservation organization or perhaps include some sort of redemption clause in the deed.

 

[skiguy]

This is not the first time where the state acting as manager over properties with legally mandated restrictions has selectively ignored restrictions. The controversy in the Ossipee Mtn area several years ago came down to the state acting as manager allowing a land owner to ignore agreed upon restrictions that came along with a big federal check and punishing the individual who pointed out the mismanagement. The states response was to close the area to legally allowed hiker access until the snowmobile lobby complained.

Well this certainly reopens a can of worms. I disagree with this statement. This is not fact but your opinion and interpretation which you are entitled to. I will not state my interpretation or opinion on this matter here as I certainly voiced it in the thread that addresses this subject. I encourage others to form their own opinions also before accepting this spin of the facts.

 

[rocket21]

Well this certainly reopens a can of worms. I disagree with this statement. This is not fact but your opinion and interpretation which you are entitled to. I will not state my interpretation or opinion on this matter here as I certainly voiced it in the thread that addresses this subject. I encourage others to form their own opinions also before accepting this spin of the facts.

Spin?
Fact: The state and landowner have ignored key parts of the agreement.
Fact: The state and landowner closed trails that were, with our Federal tax dollars, to be ensured maintained and open to public use.
Fact: The check to the landowner was well in excess of a million Federal tax dollars, not including massive tax breaks/exemptions.

Back to the original thread, it is my understanding that the state has formally closed the hiking trail to South Percy.

 

[Grey J]

Back to the original thread, it is my understanding that the state has formally closed the hiking trail to South Percy.

Oh no, when did that happen? A loop hike over North and South Percy is probably #3 on my 2016 wish list. Is it just the last .3m spur to South Percy that's closed? How hard would it be bushwhack around the closure?

 

[J&J]

Back to the original thread, it is my understanding that the state has formally closed the hiking trail to South Percy.

I didn't think the trail up South Percy was an official trail. In years past, it was more of a bushwhack and that was the reason there has always been a register on the summit.

When did it become an official trail and where was it announced that it was closing?

 

[thegibba]

I just went up south Percy 3 days ago. The trail had no indications of it being closed. There was a sign stating that south Percy was thisaway near the junction of the Percy peaks trail and the Old Summer Club trail. If it is closed they are not doing a very good job of it.

If you wan't to bushwhack it due to a trail closure. The forest looks like this. It's pretty much as good as it gets IMO as far as atmosphere goes.

edited: because I got to my house and found a picture.

 

[Grey J]

Thanks for that info and the nice photos too. I'll post a TR if I get there, probably late August.

 

[CaptCaper]

Good for the state to allow ATV use there. No one use's that area for hiking much anyway. Just sits and rot's...I never see anyone much on the Coho's trail. I hiked it July 4th and never saw a soul in 8 hrs. And they don't have the budget to patrol and care of that land for hikers,etc. I've been up there a few times in the summer,etc. and snow machine there in the winter. Everyone goes to the mountains south of Gorham and Jefferson..
The North Country benefits so much from ATV's. And not really from hikers. Especially the ones who come up on a tank of cheap gas and go back on the same tank from Ma then camp for free and bring there own food.
I am a hiker, snowmachiner, camper,etc. and believe in sharing the resources... that's were I come from...

 

[Stan]

... The North Country benefits so much from ATV's. And not really from hikers. Especially the ones who come up on a tank of cheap gas and go back on the same tank from Ma then camp for free and bring there own food.
I am a hiker, snowmachiner, camper,etc. and believe in sharing the resources... that's were I come from...

Don't forget the tolls

Bravo! I'm not much into motorized recreation but I do share that sentiment. I figure everyone's earned the joy of their passion as I have mine and there's room for all of us somewhere.

I am, however, very judgemental when it comes to litter.

 

[CaptCaper]

Don't forget the tolls

Bravo! I'm not much into motorized recreation but I do share that sentiment. I figure everyone's earned the joy of their passion as I have mine and there's room for all of us somewhere.

I am, however, very judgemental when it comes to litter.

Some for sure complain about the tolls while drinking their Starbucks big $$$ drink. Nash Stream is open to autos now for anyone to go. If any litter is there it is from them ...I don't ATV but snowmachine many miles during the winter and never see trash anywhere at the trail heads,etc. So I say that the ATV folks will be above standards of the common folks ..they appreciate the privilege of using those trails. There are always a few who don't in any sport.. I see trash on the hiking trails and parking lot's all the time.

 

[egilbe]

I hike some ATV trails in Maine. I always see budlight and coors light cans on the sides of the trails. Pretty sad than an atv'er can hail a 30 pack into the woods full, but wont haul the empies out.

 

[CaptCaper]

I hike some ATV trails in Maine. I always see budlight and coors light cans on the sides of the trails. Pretty sad than an atv'er can hail a 30 pack into the woods full, but wont haul the empies out.

It probably was a hunter or someone growing pot.

 

[dug]

I hike some ATV trails in Maine. I always see budlight and coors light cans on the sides of the trails. Pretty sad than an atv'er can hail a 30 pack into the woods full, but wont haul the empies out.

"Bud Can Theory" No matter how remote you are, not matter how you may feel nobody has been there since the dawn of man, you will always find a Bud Can. Pull tab, metal stripe down the side, being the most common.

"Dunkins Cup Corollary" has been developed, as well.

 

[CaptCaper]

"Bud Can Theory" No matter how remote you are, not matter how you may feel nobody has been there since the dawn of man, you will always find a Bud Can. Pull tab, metal stripe down the side, being the most common.

"Dunkins Cup Corollary" has been developed, as well.

So true....Ha... I've been in some far out places only to find one...funny thing is I remember most of them...or not funny really. Show's my age..

 

[egilbe]

Almost always bud lights, so they are fairly recent. It maybe time to do a sweep of Androscoggin Riverlands state park and see how much money I can collect cashing in the returnables.

 

[dug]

Almost always bud lights, so they are fairly recent. It maybe time to do a sweep of Androscoggin Riverlands state park and see how much money I can collect cashing in the returnables.

Yes, theory first developed when I was surveying 25-30 years ago. Bud Light also has it's own subset today.

 

[Andrew]

As Skiguy suggests facts should be sought. A good way to do this would be to read the management plan- http://nhdfl.org/new-hampshire-state-lands/state-owned-reservations/NashStream.aspx
Things changed from the original management plan with the 2002 revision- based on a law passed by the state managers bosses- the politicians.
The original intent of the acquisition was to protect the integrity of an almost entire watershed for ecological purposes.

 

[NHClimber]

This is not the first time where the state acting as manager over properties with legally mandated restrictions has selectively ignored restrictions. The controversy in the Ossipee Mtn area several years ago came down to the state acting as manager allowing a land owner to ignore agreed upon restrictions that came along with a big federal check and punishing the individual who pointed out the mismanagement. The states response was to close the area to legally allowed hiker access until the snowmobile lobby complained.

Similar issues have occurred at other properties originally purchased by conservation groups and transferred to state ownership. Ski areas get leased and expanded onto protected lands and cell towers get built on wild summits despite formal agreements to the contrary with the original purchasers.

I don't have much sympathy for this issue any longer (it's ok if you are disappointed in me for saying that). The fact is that today there is very little respect for agreed-upon bargains in government, and selective enforcement of laws on the books and of other agreements is a hallmark of the current state and federal administrations, both republican and democrat. It is only getting worse. Legislatures and executives either don't act or when they do it is in a partisan manner and often unconstitutional, forcing private and public monies to be spent in the courts seeking redress to legislative or executive overreach. I can cite numerous examples but this is not the forum for such detail. It's only going to get worse unfortunately.

The North Country benefits so much from ATV's. And not really from hikers. Especially the ones who come up on a tank of cheap gas and go back on the same tank from Ma then camp for free and bring there own food.
I am a hiker, snowmachiner, camper,etc. and believe in sharing the resources... that's were I come from...

+1

 

[Raven]

The fact is that today there is very little respect for agreed-upon bargains in government...

+1 Buyer beware. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, folks. Promises of the future are easy to make and easy to change later on. I have seen lovely pictures of the beautiful park/pond area that was supposed to be built after the gravel was removed from the pit across the street from my home. It was planned out beautifully and looked so legitimate and all people had to do was let them take all the gravel and then they would follow through on their end. Whatever. Instead of looking at a park, I found myself instead battling a concrete batch plant they were trying to squeeze into a nonconforming use. We won, but not because of the old promises. Apparently those old promises don't mean much now. Next time, I'm suggesting that the company puts the park in now and in 30 years we will give it back for industrial use. I promise. And I've got a bridge for sale as well.

Since the discussions have been referenced numerous times, but I have not yet seen them linked, here is some background reading on the Ossippee Mountain Range Controversy from a few years ago. Many people have joined the forum since this fiasco.

WODC Outlook Thread (2009):

http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?30146-WODC-Outlook-May-2009


Original VFTT Thread on Ossippee Mountain Area Controversy (2009):

http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?31940-12-000-Ossippee-acres-closed&highlight=ossippee


Links to further information as well as numerous media sources on the subject:

http://www.franklinsites.com/hikephotos/Ossipee/

I'm not giving an opinion, just linking it for the ease of reading of those who are curious since it has come up in the thread.