Time for a new camera: semi-manual???

[spencer]

Hello Folks,

My trusty Canon S400 digital Elph is finally needing a rest. Largely in part to running over it with my car, the digital screen is cracked (Don't ask me what happened to my laptop). Though it still takes pictures fine, I can't review them very well. The CF engagement has become finicky also, often requiring me to turn the camera on and off a few times. It made it through my New Zealand trip but I'm getting worried about relying on it.

So, I've been looking at new cameras. I've been so pleased with the durability of my metal-bodied Canon and all its features (perhaps dated now) have made me a Canon snob. I'm pretty sure I don't want to bother looking at other lines, unless someone has a very convincing reason. People usually look at my camera and say things like, "Boy, that sure has been through a lot!" - and that was before I ran it over.

My question is really this: should I consider stepping up to one of the "high end" digital cameras like the Canon G7 or S3 that Canon offers? I'm not sure I'm ready to be committed to the weight and bulk of a dSLR and most of hte time I don't get picky about shooting, but other times I really want to be able to explore my options and improve things. I suscribe to the "take a ton and one or two will be good" theory but at times I want to get more sophisticated.

Also, Joanna is a semi-experience photographer and might enjoy the added benefits but doesn't seem interested in investing in a dSLR for just her sake.

So, would someone outline what I'll get from something like G7 or S3 as opposed to SD800 and what I'll miss by not stepping up to an entry-level dSLR.

Pretty please?

Spencer

 

[Chip]

I recently "replaced" my 4mp Olympus Camedia with a Canon S3. The Canon is a great camera if you want something to learn how to use properly, but I still always grab my Olympus when it's time for a hike. My wife has really gotten into the Canon and we now take both on vacations.

Edit: Not that this answers your question, but don't throw out the Elph yet.

 

[David Metsky]

I'd look at the A-series, either the A710 or the A570. You'll get full manual controls for when you want to play, IS, a better lens, more zoom, more features, and AA batteries (get NiMH rechargeables).

Downside it's bigger then the SD-series (Elph doesn't mean anything anymore) and not all metal construction. But they're more affordable then the S3 or the G7 (which is grossly overpriced IMO) and smaller then either as well.

I have an SD300 and an S3, which covers me on both ends. If I had to get a single camera, it would be the A-series.

-dave-

 

[pudgy_groundhog]

I'm not sure about the models you mentioned, but we have a Canon Powershot G3 and a Digital Rebel XTi (we're Canon fans ). The G3 was our primary camera for four years and we loved it. In addition to being able to shoot in different modes (manual, av, tv) we also liked that we could put a polarizer on it and other features like the neutral density filter function in the menu (which we used mainly for waterfall shots). We've been really happy with the picture quality (even at a paltry four megapixels ) and have gotten nice 8x10 prints from the camera.

After four years with our G3 and learning a lot of the basics (and saving up the money), we were ready to move up to a dSLR and purchased one this year. We're still new to the dSLR thing, but I personally don't think you would be missing out by getting the G7 or S3 instead of a dSLR (especially based on what you wrote in your post about your picture taking).

 

[Nessmuk]

I just picked up a new Olympus Stylus 770SW 7.1MP as a trail camera to replace an older 2MP pocket sized Sony. I found that having a "trail camera" ready to go in my shirt pocket gave me many more photo opportunities than a bulker camera that could not always be as ready. I'll give up access to manual controls in favor of being ready for many more instantaneous shots. I also have a Canon G3 "family camera" that I love for its manual controls, but it's not practical to use in a rainy canoe or crawling around out in the rough bush where I go.

The 770SW is waterproof down to 33 feet as an underwater camera and is built like a tank. You could step on it or drop it on rocks and not hurt it (so Olympus claims). I've not tried it in the field yet, but expect to toss it in the bottom of my canoe or carry it in my soggy shirt pocket without worry very soon.

 

[David Metsky]

My problem with the Oly waterproof cameras is that the image quality suffers in comparison to other, non-waterproof cameras, especially in low light. In 6 years of using digital cameras I haven't killed one yet in all my hiking/skiing adventures from getting them wet. Just another data point.

-dave-

 

[Nessmuk]

My problem with the Oly waterproof cameras is that the image quality suffers in comparison to other, non-waterproof cameras, especially in low light. In 6 years of using digital cameras I haven't killed one yet in all my hiking/skiing adventures from getting them wet. Just another data point.

-dave-

Yup, small lens size, small pixel size, lower quantum efficiency.. (small surface area per pixel gets fewer photons, results in more noise at low light levels). Still, having a camera in my shirt pocket ready to go has gotten me hundreds more photo opportunities than if I'd had a larger bulkier camera. Even with my old 2MP tiny format Sony, most photos were of good quality, especially if all I wanted to do was show them on a monitor. If I was in the business of making 8x10s in dim light then I'd think differently.

 

[TomD]

I've got an A95 Canon that is a couple of years old. You should look at its successors. You can see really detailed reviews of just about every camera around on www.dpreview.com.

Mine uses 4 AA batteries, but it looks like some of the newer ones only use two. Mine has a swing-out screen I really like, a bunch of settings, including full manual, program mode, aperture and shutter priority and is pretty sturdy. Mine uses the CF card, but I think the newer ones use the smaller SD card.

I just saw a new Nikon SLR on dp review and it looks pretty nice if you want to make the big leap for not too much money.

 

[Quietman]

I just picked up a Canon A540 on clearance for $117. I'm on a budget so can't always get the new stuff, but one year old ain't too bad. I really like this camera and as Dave stated, it's great to have the full manual mode. It has 6mp, 4x optical, uses AA's, 2.5" LCD screen, and 30fps movie with sound, fits in a pocket, for under $120. Couldn't resist. My wife will get my A430 to use.

 

[ROCKYSUMMIT]

My preference is Canon. Besides the picture quality and zero problems in poor weather, their customer support, knowledge of functions, and willingness to spend time on the phone till you're satisfied is outstanding. A few years back, I sent a 35mm film camera to them that was clearly out of warranty, thinking something with the exposure metering system was out of wack. They checked it out, tuned it up, and sent it back at no charge. My friend purchased a Nikon DSLR and had trouble with a broken plastic locking tab on the kit lens after only 3 months. I figure they're also a huge company in the industry and they would take care of it...They didn't want to know anything! Said it was abused, and he'd have to pay the freight to get it back... I agree, the A series would be a good choice. I carry a small camera for those can't miss shots and a Digital Rebel when I want to take my time and get crazy.

 

[spencer]

Thanks everyone!

I ordered a Canon S3 despite the size increase over what I have now. Joanna also brought up a good point: maybe if I couldn't fit it in my pocket (I often carry my camera now in my pocket without a case) it won't get so beat up and I won't need a metal one.

Sounds like decent logic to me.

Anyway, I hope I figure out a way to carry the camera so that I still use it all the time.

wish me luck!

Spencer

 

[ROCKYSUMMIT]

I keep my camera attached to the sternum strap, easy to get quick shots.

 

[David Metsky]

The S3 in its case is a little big for my sternum strap, but it will work. I carry my case clipped to my hip belt and shoulder strap, two points of contact keep the relatively large case from bouncing around.

-dave-

 

[snoshoovt]

Semi-manual camera

I recently got a Canon A710 IS to replace a camera that's now at the bottom of a spruce trap somewhere between N. Bro and Fort. Definately not the smallest, but seemed like good compromise, with great telephoto, IS and other good stuff. So far, so good.
-John

 

[Grandaddy]

High-end digicam vs. dSLR

I was in the market recently for a digicam. I own a Rebel XT, and love it, but was looking for something compact that I can easily carry around for street photography and hiking.

The only problem that I have with most of the digicams is that they do not support RAW, Canon included. They only shoot in jpeg, which takes some control away from the photographer. I picked up a Leica D-LUX 3 which does shoot RAW, for a price! (comes with Photoshop elements, though.)

RAW support is only necessary if you plan on doing photo editing. It is really nice for someone who has developed film and wants to explore digital.

 

[Grumpy]

First, let me ventilate.

I pine for the good old days of not only “manual” controls on my cameras, but for cameras that operated and were controlled mechanically, rather than electronically. Mechanical cameras don’t just “die” without plenty of warning and hints as to what will come. Electronics and automation are wonderful when they work as specified but they can leave you in the lurch, virtually without notice – one shot they work fine; the next, kaput. That is what real life experience tells me.

I feel better now.

All that said, I go along with Grandaddy about the ability to capture images in digital RAW format. Few compact P&S digital cameras have that capacity. The Leica he mentioned is one; Panasonic’s Lumix DMC-LX2 is another (it uses the Leica optics and sensor specs are the same as the Leica – are these essentially the same cameras?); and Fuji’s Finepix 800 seems to fit that criterion.

What I don’t care for in the Leica-Panasonic is the absence of an optical viewfinder, although I’ve found that composing on the LCD is something that I can do quite comfortably (in a way, it reminds me of working with old twin lens reflex and medium format reflex cameras with waist-level viewfinders).

Between the three cameras, I see that both the Panasonic and Leica use rechargeable battery packs while the Fuji runs on regular AA cells. I think the ability to run on regular batteries has some advantages, since a charger is not always readily available when I’m hiking.

G.

 

[kmorgan]

High-end digicam vs. dSLR

I was in the market recently for a digicam. I own a Rebel XT, and love it, but was looking for something compact that I can easily carry around for street photography and hiking.

The only problem that I have with most of the digicams is that they do not support RAW, Canon included. They only shoot in jpeg, which takes some control away from the photographer. I picked up a Leica D-LUX 3 which does shoot RAW, for a price! (comes with Photoshop elements, though.)

RAW support is only necessary if you plan on doing photo editing. It is really nice for someone who has developed film and wants to explore digital.

I have an XT also. My first digital was (and still is) a Canon Powershot G2. The G2 does shoot in RAW, so I would imagine that other Canon Powershot cameras do too.

Kevin

 

[David Metsky]

The G2 does shoot in RAW, so I would imagine that other Canon Powershot cameras do too.

Nope, not anymore. They've dropped RAW support on everything except dSLRs. That was one of the big disappointments of the G7.

-dave-

 

[DougPaul]

First, let me ventilate.

I pine for the good old days of not only “manual” controls on my cameras, but for cameras that operated and were controlled mechanically, rather than electronically. Mechanical cameras don’t just “die” without plenty of warning and hints as to what will come. Electronics and automation are wonderful when they work as specified but they can leave you in the lurch, virtually without notice – one shot they work fine; the next, kaput. That is what real life experience tells me.

I agree. (The only electronics in my film SLR is a through-the-lens meter. I have gone for days with battery problems and still taken good pics.)

When you had to set everything yourself, you paid attention and generally chose good settings. Because the designers knew that the user had to use manual controls, they put good controls on the cameras. Now with automation, you tend to let the camera do the work, ignore the settings and possibly end up with suboptimal settings. My DSLR has manual modes, but the controls are not as easy to use as the controls on my film SLR. (The controls for many of the automatic modes aren't as easy to use either...)

Digital is nice and I'm not planning on going back, but it does have a price.


Let me add that RAW can be handy for something as simple as fixing an exposure. My DSLR can record both JPEG and RAW, so I can use the JPEG most of the time and only use the RAW if there is a problem with the JPEG. (RAW does tend to chew up card and disk space, though...)

Doug

 

[kmorgan]

Nope, not anymore. They've dropped RAW support on everything except dSLRs. That was one of the big disappointments of the G7.

-dave-

That's a shame. I never used the RAW mode with the G2, though. That camera still takes awesome pictures. Great glass (as long as you stay away from the 'digital zoom' feature, yuck!) and color saturation/white balance are always right on.

Recently I've gone over to RAW only (with my Rebel XT). I love the flexibility and fact you can keep going back to the RAW file and changing exposure, white balance, levels of shadows, etc.

The next biggest help is really sitting down to learn Photoshop from as many different books as I can get my hands on! Awesome software and worth every penny (and it's a LOT of freakin' pennies!).

Kevin