Time to pay very close attention to the avalanche hazard

[DayTrip]

AIARE lists a two-hour "Avalanche Awareness" course and a 1-2 day "Introduction to Avalanches" as part of their program, but I can't find any actually offered. I suspect the level of instructor investment needed is not much less than doing the full Avy I, so it's not worth it.

Self-study with Snow Sense + some maps, and an open eye while hiking (even in summer...carry an inclinometer and compare to your estimate of slope steepness), could probably get you a good chunk of the way, i.e., a knowlege of what avy terrain is so you know to stay away!

I actually found some AIARE lectures on YouTube and watched about 2 hours worth. If that is what the $400 course entails then I'll proclaim myself a graduate and save the cash. It was even more basic than what I've read in Mountaineering:Freedom Of The Hills and other sources. I'm sure the hands on analysis digging pits and looking at layers is helpful but I do own a shovel so I may just stick to more video watching and call it even.

 

[DougPaul]

"The Avalanche Handbook" by David McClung and Peter Schaerer is a good source of avy info:
https://www.mountaineers.org/shop/books/the-avalanche-handbook-3rd-edition
https://www.amazon.com/Avalanche-Handbook-David-McClung/dp/0898868092
This book is a sequel to the earlier USDA version linked below.

A pdf of the chapter on "Backcountry Forecasting & Decisions":
http://www.mountaineersbooks.org/As... Downloads/AvSafety_BackcountryForcasting.pdf

A pdf of the USDA 1976 edition by Ronald I. Perla and M. Martinelli, Jr.:
http://www.n-sda.org/files/education/handbooks/Avalanche.pdf

Doug

 

[sierra]

Thanks. 3 days and $275-$400 is definitely more of a commitment than I can make right now, especially as more of a curiosity than a necessity for me given my current hiking abilities. I'll save the links for down the road though. I was hoping for more of a 1 day informational course as opposed to certification of any sort.

There is plenty of material out there for you to educate yourself with as a casual climber. I've never taken a course and feel equipped enough by the research I've done. Don't get me wrong education in the form of a class would always give you an edge, but you can get by without it, imo. The types of terrain and various conditions in regards to Avalanches, can be learned from text and practice on your own in the backcountry. One of the motivating factor's for my in depth study of Avalanches was being in one myself. It's not fun and to survive one requires a lot of luck.

 

[sardog1]

I was just having a conversation with my son during a lunch break. He wanted to go to Tuckerman Ravine Saturday and I said I'm only going to HoJo's or not much further than the first aid cache at the bottom of the ravine as I anticipate the avalanche danger will not be moderate ;-)

From the Advisory this morning (Saturday):

"SNOWPACK: While no crown lines exist to tell the tale of the avalanche cycle that occurred yesterday, it is only because of the continued loading of new and wind transported snow covered them all up. Debris is obvious and extended well out into the floor of Tuckerman Ravine and ran 200m beyond previous avalanches this season. The debris is very deep and ran across the trail and into the woods ending about 100 yards above the Connection Cache."

 

[DayTrip]

"The Avalanche Handbook" by David McClung and Peter Schaerer is a good source of avy info:
https://www.mountaineers.org/shop/books/the-avalanche-handbook-3rd-edition
https://www.amazon.com/Avalanche-Handbook-David-McClung/dp/0898868092
This book is a sequel to the earlier USDA version linked below.

A pdf of the chapter on "Backcountry Forecasting & Decisions":
http://www.mountaineersbooks.org/As... Downloads/AvSafety_BackcountryForcasting.pdf

A pdf of the USDA 1976 edition by Ronald I. Perla and M. Martinelli, Jr.:
http://www.n-sda.org/files/education/handbooks/Avalanche.pdf

Doug

Thanks for the links.

 

[DayTrip]

There is plenty of material out there for you to educate yourself with as a casual climber. I've never taken a course and feel equipped enough by the research I've done. Don't get me wrong education in the form of a class would always give you an edge, but you can get by without it, imo. The types of terrain and various conditions in regards to Avalanches, can be learned from text and practice on your own in the backcountry. One of the motivating factor's for my in depth study of Avalanches was being in one myself. It's not fun and to survive one requires a lot of luck.

Yah I found many YouTube videos as I kept looking. Really didn't pick up anything that wasn't in Mountaineering:Freedom Of The Hills.

 

[skiguy]

Yah I found many YouTube videos as I kept looking. Really didn't pick up anything that wasn't in Mountaineering:Freedom Of The Hills.

I agree that a lot can be learned from publications and online tutorials. I also agree that taking a class will always give you an edge. That edge could mean the difference between making it out on your own two feet or in a body bag. One of the main differences as an individual a class is going to give you is how to work with others as a team in the event of a burial. Yea you could probably put together your own group mock practice session but why not learn from somebody that probably has way more experience and can point out the subtleties and or the things you are doing right and wrong. If Avalanche Awareness is on your Radar and especially if you are thinking of traveling in Avalanche terrain the couple of days and dollars spent is well worth it IMO. At all cost if you do not get formal training at least go out and practice what you think you might know.

 

[ChrisB]

I found the following quote from an avalanche article in the NYT (linked to below) interesting...

Though going out alone in the back country tends to be seen as risky, project respondents who were solo travelers tended to make safer choices than those who traveled in larger groups.



Searching for the Human Factor in Deadly Avalanches

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/29/s...obiles.html?rref=collection/column/trilobites

 

[DayTrip]

I agree that a lot can be learned from publications and online tutorials. I also agree that taking a class will always give you an edge. That edge could mean the difference between making it out on your own two feet or in a body bag. One of the main differences as an individual a class is going to give you is how to work with others as a team in the event of a burial. Yea you could probably put together your own group mock practice session but why not learn from somebody that probably has way more experience and can point out the subtleties and or the things you are doing right and wrong. If Avalanche Awareness is on your Radar and especially if you are thinking of traveling in Avalanche terrain the couple of days and dollars spent is well worth it IMO. At all cost if you do not get formal training at least go out and practice what you think you might know.

I hike alone so this is a portion of the class that has no benefit to me. If I get buried I'm gonna die so I'm much more focused on not getting buried in the first place. I take a necessarily conservative approach to my Winter adventures.

 

[dug]

I hike alone so this is a portion of the class that has no benefit to me. If I get buried I'm gonna die so I'm much more focused on not getting buried in the first place. I take a necessarily conservative approach to my Winter adventures.

Worth considering being able to assist should you come across someone in need.

 

[DayTrip]

Worth considering being able to assist should you come across someone in need.

True enough but not carrying a shovel, probe, etc my contribution would be minimal. I did read these sections though so I wouldn't be totally in the dark if that ever happened.

 

[dug]

True enough but not carrying a shovel, probe, etc my contribution would be minimal. I did read these sections though so I wouldn't be totally in the dark if that ever happened.

Honestly, I suppose that's all that could be expected of anyone. To be able to lend a hand or at least follow whatever direction is asked if needed.

 

[sardog1]

From the NYT article linked to above by ChrisB:

"Some evidence suggests larger groups make riskier decisions. Part of that may be peer pressure or a desire to show off. Part of it may be the so-called expert halo, which causes people to blindly defer to the perceived authority in the group instead of communicating about perceived dangers."

I used to exploit this tendency when I taught navigation. I sent groups of four or five students out on an orienteering course, without an instructor but after some classroom instruction. They were told that they could not move their feet at any point until they ALL agreed on where they were, where they were going and how they would get there. If some (usually self-appointed) group leader couldn't explain his or her position on these questions to the satisfaction of everyone, they were not ready to move.

 

[B the Hiker]

The Observatory has a new avalanche tool:
http://www.mountwashingtonavalanchecenter.org/2017/01/27/website-changes/


Brian

 

[sardog1]

The Observatory has a new avalanche tool:
http://www.mountwashingtonavalanchecenter.org/2017/01/27/website-changes/


Brian

That is a big advance in communicating about hazards. Thanks for posting the news.

 

[TCD]

Sounds good, but when I go to the Avy Advisory page, I do not see the map (in either IE or Chrome). Is it hidden somewhere?

 

[TJsName]

Sounds good, but when I go to the Avy Advisory page, I do not see the map (in either IE or Chrome). Is it hidden somewhere?

On my Android phone it was at the bottom of the page.

 

[Mike P.]

I like the map, I'd love to see something mentioned about other areas that may face the same approximate direction. I suspect that Gulf of Slides and part of the Great Gulf are at considerable risk like parts of the two reported ravines. Since no ranger goes to these locations regularly, if at all, they don't feel comfortable making statements or comparisons that hikers may use for navigation.

 

[TCD]

On my Android phone it was at the bottom of the page.

Thanks. Today, the map appears; it was not appearing yesterday (same desktop PC). So there's something glitch in the software; but now that I see the map, I like it!