To build (or not to build) a fire: winter survival

[hikerbrian]

Anyone have first-hand experience in surviving an unplanned night out in the northeastern US in winter in which a fire was critical to survival? How about second-hand? If you have heard of such a situation, do you feel the fire was indeed the best option? If you were in the same situation, would you have built a fire?

 

[Trail Boss]

There's probably no hard and fast rule that governs all situations. I've never been in a situation that forced me to spend an unplanned night out in winter. I came close once but that's a story for another time. On more than one occasion, during wintry hikes, I've paused to look at my surroundings and wonder how the heck I'd get a fire going. Above 3500' in the Adirondacks, the snow-clad conifers don't appear to provide a wealth of suitable firewood (kindling, yes). I wonder how much time and effort would be required to plow through deep snow and harvest sufficient kindling to fuel an all-night fire. In contrast, the deciduous forests below 3500' might be more amenable to building a fire (maybe).

Here's a report from an individual who spent two unplanned nights in the Seward Range. He built a fire the first night and hiked through the second night. His experience attempting to build and maintain a fire reflect my suspicions that it's not an easy task.
http://forums.adkhighpeaks.com/showthread.php?t=14111

FWIW, I joined a veteran winter-camper (Neil) on a hike during one of the coldest days last winter. One of the hike's goals was to build a fire. The selected site was near the shore of a frozen lake. We dug until we struck ice and cleared an area about eight feet square. Then we broke the dry branches off dead trees inundated by the lake (BTW, this was in Quebec, not the Adirondacks). We built a "raft" using the largest (diameter) of the wood and then piled on the kindling. One match to the dry moss and birch bark and it roared to life. That proved to be a heckuva warming fire! It was a fire that would be very difficult to reproduce at higher elevations.

Pics of building a fire on Lac Clair.

 

[dave.m]

I've been on two winter trips where a member of the party went into stream to the knees. Both times it was around 5f. In neither situation was a fire needed.

Wet fire making is hard and (for me) requires ongoing practice. I practice in my back yard. It's hard to build and sustain fires in the winter woods. When I think of day trips, I think tarp, bivy and stove as backup but for deep cold?

I think carrying a folding saw and something to split wood is not unreasonable. But, you gotta know how.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I think carrying a folding saw and something to split wood is not unreasonable. But, you gotta know how.

where something = ________________ ?

Tim

 

[dave.m]

Heh. That sumtin-sumtin is probably a matter of religion!!!


I sometimes carry this. It can split wrist sized wood easily. That's as big as I'm going to cut with my Silky saw anyhow.

Schrade H-15 Modified by Pinnah, on Flickr

I got an Emberlit stove this year and while I'm still learning it, I'm changing my thinking about winter trips. It may come on more winter trips just because it's so convenient to use and burns wood down to ash with a minim of mess. It also likes thumb sized sticks or larger sticks split down to thumb thickness. I can do that easily with an Opinel 9 or 10 though so the big knife may just get moved to hunting duty.

 

[jfb]

I've been stuck on chairlifts enough times to realize that the key to winter survival is wearing adequate insulation and wind resistant shell clothing. I could probably start a fire if I needed to, but prefer not needing to.

 

[Brambor]

nice knife Dave.

I think with the choice to build a fire: If you're a few hours from a road and feel that you can stay warm by moving then choose to hike it out. If you're too far from civilization or if you're in conditions that will rob you of heat no matter what you do then seek shelter, insulation and try to build a fire.

 

[Trail Boss]

"Unplanned night out" suggests circumstances that prevent you from leaving. It's important to remember that you are building an "emergency fire" because you are not in a good way.

Reasons for being forced to bivy may include severe injury, total exhaustion, and/or being lost. If it's either of the first two, it may prevent you from collecting sufficient firewood to maintain an all-night fire. If your mobility, or dexterity, is impaired, simple tasks like gathering and preparing firewood cease being "simple".

When we built our fire on the frozen lake, we didn't simulate emergency conditions like using only one arm, hobbling on one leg, or dragging oneself through the snow. It is easy to imagine how much more difficult it would be to build a fire under these conditions.

PS
I overlooked to mention that I'm assuming the "group size" is one.

 

[Lawn Sale]

I had to build a fire once when a few of us went through the ice up to our waist when crossing a beaver flow. We could have pushed on but felt getting dry was more important at the moment. It isn't hard to build a fire once you've built hundreds of them since you know what to do automatically. In winter gathering wood takes a little longer, but it's still not too bad, especially with conifers around since the bottom branches on the trees tend to be dead and dry. Pine cones make excellent fire starters as well, but for ease of starting I keep some lifeboat matches and fuel tabs in my survival kit. They weigh nothing and will light in any conditions, so even if you have some wet wood, the fuel tab should dry out the wood enough for it to light and it precludes the necessity of having to gather tinder to get the larger fuel started. I used to have some candle nubs that I'd light and place under the wood but if it was too windy they'd blow out easily. The fuel tabs are also used in my Esbit Ti stove, which will make a great cup of hot chocolate or tea on the trail if I want something warm to enjoy while out. I have a Ti cup that sits in the bottom of my Nalgene Cozy perfectly that I use on the stove.

I have built fires in the woods just to take the chill off and get my bearings, and almost had to spend an unplanned night in the woods when I got lost bear hunting around the Bigelows. Luckily a passing car saved the day and I did not have to spend the night, but I had resigned myself to it and was preparing. I had no idea the dirt road was that close. I have built fires on the AT while at shelters during the rain and it's amazing how much they cheer people up when they're cold and wet, even if they're still cold and wet. There is something comforting about simply having a fire that calms people down and gives them a sense of security, even if other conditions have not changed.

 

[sierra]

I think a good knife is essential, this is what I carry.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I remember an AMC hike to Owl's Head one year where the leader(s) decided someone should wait at the bottom of the Brutus Bushwhack (with a leader) until the group came back. They made a fire in that case. I was not part of the AMC group... we were just passing through. Said individual can feel free to comment on the situation...

Tim

 

[peakbagger]

I also have practiced but have never really needed a winter fire. I used to take scout troops out on winter snowshoes and bring some hot dogs. At some point I would stop and have them start a fire in the snow with the equipment they had in their packs. They generally eventually got one started but it was 30 or 40 minutes at a minimum after a few failed efforts, add in a stiff breeze and that doubled the time. Good thing hot dogs are edible cold. I personally carry a trioxane bar in the bottom of the pack. It usually will dry out any dead wood to the point where it will burn.

I think the likelihood of substaining a fire at or near treeline in the scrub band would be very difficult for even the experienced. Generally the spruce is coated top to bottom with rime ice and I expect getting it to burn is going to be difficult without auxiliary fuel even with no wind. As I have found if its really windy, a sheltered spot from the wind is relative at best.

 

[hikerbrian]

I had to build a fire once when a few of us went through the ice up to our waist when crossing a beaver flow. We could have pushed on but felt getting dry was more important at the moment.

Just to clarify: it sounds like you decided to build a fire, not that you had to build a fire in order to survive. Is that assessment correct? I'm guessing that after you went in the drink, you changed into something dry, and then in order to salvage the trip and be more comfortable (but NOT more alive and able to walk out) decided to dry your wet clothes. Or perhaps by saying, "We could have pushed on," you maybe didn't even need to change clothes? Again, can you clarify whether the fire was necessary or even important to your chances of survival and walking out of the woods on your own?

 

[Lawn Sale]

Just to clarify: it sounds like you decided to build a fire, not that you had to build a fire in order to survive. Is that assessment correct? I'm guessing that after you went in the drink, you changed into something dry, and then in order to salvage the trip and be more comfortable (but NOT more alive and able to walk out) decided to dry your wet clothes. Or perhaps by saying, "We could have pushed on," you maybe didn't even need to change clothes? Again, can you clarify whether the fire was necessary or even important to your chances of survival and walking out of the woods on your own?

You are correct in that it was our decision, but we had no dry clothes to change into, which was the reason for the fire. The house was only 2-3 miles away (40-60 minutes hiking time) so we probably could have made it there without much incident and just been cold. We instead made the fire and got reasonably dry, although you never fully dry everything if you're still wearing it. Thus it wasn't an 'emergency', but how do you tell when something is an emergency or not at the present time? Do those people who die in the White Mountains every year realize they may encounter such an emergency when they make their decisions? At some point there should be a critical paradigm shift from normal thought process to pure survival, but would we recognize it when it's needed, or after it's too late?

Like peakbagger, we used to have fires in the Boy Scouts when we went winter hiking, it was just part of the experience and I used to love hot dogs cooked over it. I guess that's why I don't think that much about having one today.

 

[hikerbrian]

Thanks, couple of other questions, and please recognize I'm not second guessing your decisions, I'm just trying to learn through your experience.

What were conditions like? Wet? Dry? Cold? Windy? Deep snow? "Easy" conditions for building a fire, or not so much? And was this in New England somewhere? (I originally posted this in Q&A New England as I want answers specific to New England, but it got moved)

How long did it take you to get the fire going? In the best of conditions, I can't think of a time that it's taken me LESS than 30 minutes to get a decent fire going in the winter, and then it would take some time after that before clothes started drying out. So if home was 40-60 minutes away, it seems like just walking out might have been at least as good a bet?

Were you getting cold as you were building the fire?

Do you think you SHOULD have had a change of clothes? Or should someone in the group have had a change of clothes? Had that been the case, could you have stripped off your wet clothes, put on a dry base layer, socks and fleece pants, stuck some toe warmers to your socks, stuck your socks/toe warmers into a plastic bag, and shoved it all into your (presumably) wet boots as a way to keep your feet warm enough to hike out several miles?

 

[JoeCedar]

My answer is: IT DEPENDS . . . on too many factors to give a valid answer without being there with a clear set of circumstances and as Trail Boss mentioned, your condition.

 

[hikerbrian]

My answer is: IT DEPENDS . . . on too many factors to give a valid answer without being there with a clear set of circumstances and as Trail Boss mentioned, your condition.

In the interest of managing internet entropy, your answer to what question is, "it depends"?

 

[JoeCedar]

In the interest of managing internet entropy, your answer to what question is, "it depends"?

Please see the title of this thread.

 

[hikerbrian]

Oh, um the original post provides some actual specific questions to clarify the topic, as the title is too short a space to do so. Do you have answers to these questions?

 

[Lawn Sale]

Thanks, couple of other questions, and please recognize I'm not second guessing your decisions, I'm just trying to learn through your experience.

What were conditions like? Wet? Dry? Cold? Windy? Deep snow? "Easy" conditions for building a fire, or not so much? And was this in New England somewhere? (I originally posted this in Q&A New England as I want answers specific to New England, but it got moved)

How long did it take you to get the fire going? In the best of conditions, I can't think of a time that it's taken me LESS than 30 minutes to get a decent fire going in the winter, and then it would take some time after that before clothes started drying out. So if home was 40-60 minutes away, it seems like just walking out might have been at least as good a bet?

Were you getting cold as you were building the fire?

Do you think you SHOULD have had a change of clothes? Or should someone in the group have had a change of clothes? Had that been the case, could you have stripped off your wet clothes, put on a dry base layer, socks and fleece pants, stuck some toe warmers to your socks, stuck your socks/toe warmers into a plastic bag, and shoved it all into your (presumably) wet boots as a way to keep your feet warm enough to hike out several miles?

No worries, Brian.

The conditions were dry and overcast, no sun. Cold at about 15° with a light wind. I remember the wind because we got cold very fast (water under the ice will do that) and we were immediately soaked from the waist down. We built the fire on the shore, just outside the trees but in the lee of the wind. It took maybe 5 minutes to build the fire and the snowcover was very light since it was early in the season with plenty of dry wood around. We just gathered some small dry sticks and kept going larger from there, starting the fire first and then gathering wood to add to it as we went. Yes, we were very cold while building the fire and by the time we had it going we were shivering. But, if we'd hoofed it out at a fast pace we probably would have warmed up enough to just keep going, so it was not a life-threatening event. We didn't see it as such at the time and weren't serious about the predicament, with more of a jovial atmosphere since we were all good friends and enjoyed joking around often. This is akin to many of the hikes I have been on with people from this board....just great times no matter what the circumstances. There were three of us and two went into the water when the ice let go.

We dried out as much as we could with the fire but did not feel it was life threatening in any way. We didn't have spare clothing and I almost never have more than a shirt & socks with me even today (I hike hot), but do now carry GTX overpants and jacket. I didn't carry a pack back then but just a fanny pack with some items in it, and a huge K-Bar knife that now sits on the shelf because it's so heavy (ounces = pounds). It's amazing how we progress as we get older. But...I have a rule now that if I'm out for the day in winter with less than 4 people, I carry a 15° down bag (weighs 2 pounds). If someone gets hurt, one person can get help and the other can stay with the injured. With 4 or more people I don't carry the weight since that many people can extract the injured. I have yet to need it on an emergency basis but have been glad I've had it for impromptu overnights to enjoy the company of other hikers who have planned their overnight.

I have gotten wet more recently and had spare socks with me and changed them out immediately, then kept going. If we would have had spare clothes we'd have done the same, just changed and kept going. When changing in winter, the faster you do it the better off you'll be, so I just do it and get it over with. Sort of like having to pee when winter camping, just do it and get back into the warm-N-toasty as fast as you can.

I almost never have handwarmers with me but do now carry some when hiking with the wife since I don't want her to get cold. To date she has not been due to having the proper gear and since she has not been cold she continues to accompany me. I have found the handwarmers more bulky than anything and have not needed them yet, so I don't bring the extra weight. I usually have spare clothing like I mentioned and spare gloves, but we were just out for 1/2 a day back then and I don't usually bring stuff like that locally for such short hikes. We did not have a plastic bag with us at that time and our boots were wet but not soaked since they were waterproof boots. The tops of the socks were wet and I remember standing and sitting on a coat to dry our socks enough to put them back on. Thinking back I guess we could have just worn the boots with no socks. Hindsight is 20/20.