To build (or not to build) a fire: winter survival

[dave.m]

Anyone have first-hand experience in surviving an unplanned night out in the northeastern US in winter in which a fire was critical to survival? How about second-hand? If you have heard of such a situation, do you feel the fire was indeed the best option? If you were in the same situation, would you have built a fire?

I've been thinking more about this.

Two additional things...

On overnight trips, it's almost impossible for to see fire as a necessity given that this means I have shelter, a bag and a stove. It would have to a horrible situation to demand a fire then.

On day trips, which include "just a quick ski" or sneaking out of bounds like that kid in Maine last year (or year before) are scarier. Turn of an ankle, wrong turn or an unplanned delay... I recall doing the Hitchcock loop many years ago on skis and we got delayed going over the Cedar Brook trail. We finally got down to the East Side trail and still had a good 5 or 6 miles to go. It was 3pm and just starting to get that dusky feel and I recall how lonely the Pemi sounded as I zipped up my belay parka and I wondered if we would survive a night as the temperature dropped to around 0f.

I'm thinking a reliable lighter, a knife and some fire starter are pretty light. Really liking my Emberlt stove as a light, fail safe way of producing heat with really minimal fuel.

 

[Tom_Murphy]

<thread drift>

There are two tasks: starting a fire and gathering enough fuel to maintain it. Actually, that is backwards gather the fuel first and then start the fire. If i know I am coming back to a spot in the winter, I will gather dead wood/harvest some limbs & lay them up.

If you can select a spot that has a natural reflector like a big rock, that is a huge boost. You can build a small reflector with wood. You can rig the emergency blanket behind you as a second reflector.

</thread drift>

 

[RoySwkr]

I have never built a fire when it was critical to survival, but have when it was pleasant to do so - I will comment on difficulty etc. if you choose to open up the topic

My sister is a fan of Canadian writer R.M.Patterson who recounts how his partner traveling alone spilled into Nahanni River with his dog team, fortunately island just below had huge pile of driftwood which he lit off and ran around nude until he and dogs dried off

 

[John H Swanson]

Second Hand.

About 25 years ago, when I was hiking with a good firend I noticed the strap of his hipbelt was melted so I asked the question and it lead to a good story.

In his early years of hiking he was climbing Colvin and Blake in late winter. After summiting Blake, he dropped to the col and because of the spring conditions he was very tired. Then instead of the climbing back over Colvin, he decided to decend to the Ausable lake and walk the lake ice to the road and out (the short cut) A seemingly good idea at the time, but when he got to the lake the ice was broken up. Facing what appeared the be an impossible task of climbing back up to the col and Colvin he decided (so incorrectly) it would be easier to follow the lake shore. In case you are not aware, there is no trail and steep cliffs are next to the lake.

As night fall approached, he found himself along the lake shore exhausted and wet. He found a gully where the wood had fallen (so there was lots of dead wood) and prepared to bivouac. He has polypro and goretex. Thats it for clothes.

[Side note: as my mentor, it was these stories that usually preceded his recos about what to bring and why and led to my current level of expertise.]

He collected his wood, made a fire and sat on his pack all night. As the night got colder, he was sitting with the fire essentially between his legs and the mishap was letting his strap get melted. As the night got even colder, he made a second small fire behind him to warm both sides. Fortunately he had the wood. After the story and the emergency clothes discussion that followed, I mentioned that the strap was plenty long to cut off the melted section. He replied: "I keep it that was for a reason."

The lessons:
1. In winter, Short-cuts usually aren't. If the hike ends at third base, 90%+ of the time it is better to return via second and first bases.
2. If you make a mistake, don't make matters worse
3. Bring emergency clothes
4. Know how to make a fire
5. Keep the seond fire in mind as an option.
6. Reclimb Colvin

 

[Kevin Rooney]

So how did he get out? Reclimb Colvin?

 

[Chugach001]

When I lived in Alaska a few of my adventuring friends were former mushers/trappers and it was habit for them to build a fire everytime we stopped to rest. I remember even on belay ledges them collecting some twigs and duff to get a little hand sized fire going. To them it was a critical life saving skill. They would put it out soon after getting it started but there was a sense of security in having a fire. And we've all read enough Jack London to know it's a good skill to have.

 

[sardog1]

Every trapper I've ever spoken to has gone through the ice at some point. The reason they could talk about it afterward was usually because of their fire-building skill.

 

[John H Swanson]

So how did he get out? Reclimb Colvin?

No he was 1/2 way along the lake. He continued with the new daylight. And also commented that he would have chosen the other side if following the lake shore was required. I can't remember the side he took, just not to do it.

 

[hikerbrian]

@ Lawn Sale, thanks for the detailed write up, sounds like a pretty casual affair, not a life and death struggle a la To Build a Fire. I get it.

 

[hikerbrian]

@sardog1, do you have any detailed reports of this actually happening? I'd love to be able to analyze the actual circumstances, determine if there's any possible chance I myself might end up in the same situation, and think through whether or not a fire is in fact the best plan.

Several good posts above, thanks all for contributing. A couple of points:
1. I originally posted this in Q&A New England (it got moved), and the questions are specific to New England. That's because AK, CO, MT, WA, even NY are really different from New England - treeline, availability of wood, weather, distance from roads, off trail terrain, etc. It's really difficult to draw conclusions for local best practices based on how someone responded to a situation in AK.
2. I've asked this same question many, many times, at WFA workshops, AMC workshops, and among all of my hiking contacts, and not a single person has even a second-hand story to tell of such a case happening in New England.
3. Submersion in difficult conditions a good distance from warmth is, in my view, immediately life-threatening. It's a situation that folks should take VERY seriously [note Lawn Sale, your situation obviously does not fall into this category]. If there's a chance you might go into the drink in such conditions, you better think very carefully about whether there's another way to go that doesn't involve submersion potential (best option), and what your plan is if you do go in. I still maintain the best response would be to get the submergee out of wet clothes, into a dry base layer and insulating layer, and either up and moving again (to generate body heat) or into some kind of shelter, depending on the circumstances. This could be accomplished in 5 minutes with a very small amount of backup/group gear.
4. I fear that inexperienced folks consider a fire to be a good backup plan if they are forced to bivy. "We don't need to cary extra clothes and shelter, I've got this magnesium strip and a piece of flint..." There are a lot of good options that require only minimal extra gear that will increase your odds of survival far more than a fire.
5. A fire is TREMENDOUSLY comforting. I love having a fire. I heat my house with a wood stove, have a fire pit in my backyard, and have been experimenting with fire starting techniques since I was 5 (much to my parents' chagrin). Once a given situation has been stabilized, a fire can provide a very useful moral boost. This should not be confused with the life-saving actions that come before it.

I'd still love to hear if anyone has a New England fire experience that they feel was life-saving. So far, I get the impression that case is exceedingly rare or nonexistant.

 

[hikerbrian]

@JHS, great story, thanks for sharing. I'm reminded of the coldest night I ever spent out, camped (as planned) between Garfield and Lafayette. My dad and I had a very difficult time picking up the trail as it passed Garfield Pond. Late afternoon, long day, not enough food or drink the last hour (as we were searching for the trail), windy, 15 or 20 below and dropping. Had either one of us gone through the ice at that time, it would have been very, very serious. Of course, at that temp in late January at that elevation, going through was pretty unlikely.

 

[skiguy]

2. I've asked this same question many, many times, at WFA workshops, AMC workshops, and among all of my hiking contacts, and not a single person has even a second-hand story to tell of such a case happening in New England.
.

http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Newsroom/News_2003/News_2003_Q1/CO_lifesaving_award_031903.htm

Not sure weather this is a direct answer to your question but I would say in the above circumstance that making a fire did save a life. For myself back in the early 80's I was on a five night trip into the Pemi. We were skiing with large packs and sleds. The second day we were between Cedar Brook trail and Stillwater junction on our way to Desolation Shelter. On a brook crossing probably at least two miles from Desolation I slipped and fell into the brook. I was immediately soaked from the waste down as after falling I was basically a tangled mess laying in the stream bottom. Fortunate for me I was not alone as I needed help being extricated from the stream. The Temperature was -5F. A quick decision was made to strike camp in the middle of the trail on the far side of the Brook. Extra clothing saved my butt. I took all my wet clothes and folded them into a neat square which froze into a nice brick that following evening as the temperature dropped to -20F. We continued to Desolation the following morning. Upon reaching that destination which had a shelter at the time, which was very helpful we spent the rest of the day drying out my clothes with a fire. I was able to continue the rest of the trip which included bagging Carrigan via Desolation Trail. Did having a fire save my life? Not directly but it did make our trip an overall success.

 

[Trail Boss]

@hiker brian
I don't know if you had time to read Rogue's Trip Report (see link in my first post) but that's a first-hand account of knee-deep submersion while bushwhacking in deep winter (and kind of lost). It didn't happen in New England but in the Seward Range of the Adirondacks which, IMHO, at an elevation of around 3500'-4000', is a very close approximation of the Whites. Fairly harrowing account of how a day-hike went bad.

@john h swanson
When did the AMR (Ausable Mountain Reserve) ever allow the public to go off-trail on its property? (Rhetorical; no reply required.)

 

[Tom_Murphy]

Failing through the ice.

At wintertrekking.com, you can find threads about preparations for falling through the ice. Lots more travel on lakes in the upper Mid-West.

They discuss wearing a set of ice picks on a lanyard to extract yourself and having fire-making tools on your person since your pulk is under the ice.

That site also has very interesting discussion on the virtue of cotton "derivative" outer layers based on the deep cold / low humidity condtions

 

[Chugach001]

@sardog1, do you have any detailed reports of this actually happening? I'd love to be able to analyze the actual circumstances, determine if there's any possible chance I myself might end up in the same situation, and think through whether or not a fire is in fact the best plan.

Several good posts above, thanks all for contributing. A couple of points:
1. I originally posted this in Q&A New England (it got moved), and the questions are specific to New England. That's because AK, CO, MT, WA, even NY are really different from New England - treeline, availability of wood, weather, distance from roads, off trail terrain, etc. It's really difficult to draw conclusions for local best practices based on how someone responded to a situation in AK.

You're right, I can't think of a single experience that is directly relatable to New England, mostly due to AK's big rivers which are like frozen highways. New England is more creeks. Here's a few experiences; friend fell in (right through) ice while XC skiing (long distance, 50 miles from the road type xc skiing). One ski came detached and he had to swim down to the bottom to recover his ski. Knowing where it was I suspect temps were zero or below. I've used fires while falling into overflow on winter rivers and cold river swims or packrafting in summer.

 

[sardog1]

I grew up in Minnesota, where ice picks with lanyards were commonly sold. You keep the picks in outside pockets, with bottle corks or the like on the sharp ends.

I've personally gone through the ice twice, both in favorable circumstances. First time was on a lake on the MN/ON border. Caught an elbow on the ice going in and was able to kick and roll out of the hole and then roll to a place where I could first crawl on all fours and then stand up. (Rooney will be amused to know that (1) my Newfie tried to warn me and (2) he obeyed my command to stay away from me once I went in.) My traveling partner (who also went in) and I were able to make our way to camp and change our clothes within minutes. It was 47º F at the time, sunny and windless, which helped enormously, as did the wool we were wearing. Second time was on a creek in Washington that wasn't more than thigh deep. Getting out of the snowshoes was the toughest part there.

Trappers I've spoken to have immediately gotten a big fire going and stripped out of their wet clothes to the extent possible. It is indeed a race with the Grim Reaper to get all that done in time. If your hands go numb before the fire is lit, you've probably lost.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

... That site also has very interesting discussion on the virtue of cotton "derivative" outer layers based on the deep cold / low humidity condtions

I learned in my seven years in the Eastern Sierra that experienced hikers in the Sierra and Desert Peaks usually wear cotton, and often wear jeans. Much different approach to heat management in low humidity climates.

(Rooney will be amused to know that (1) my Newfie tried to warn me and (2) he obeyed my command to stay away from me once I went in.)

Not surprised - they have an instinct for anticipating danger around water and attempting to rescue those they deem in danger. Good on you for training him that well.

 

[DougPaul]

One technique that has not been mentioned for recovery from immersion is to roll in the snow before the water gets a chance to freeze in one's clothing. Snow is a sponge and will extract some water from the clothing before it freezes.

Never tried it myself--I was taught this tactic in winter school... (Also found in "Winter Camping", by Stephen Gorman, 2nd Ed, AMC Books, 1999, pp 138-139.)

If you don't have ice picks to extract yourself, you may be able to choke up on your poles and use them. If you have an ice axe (particularly if it has a technical pick) you could also use it to help to pull yourself out.

Doug

 

[Chip]

http://www.jacklondons.net/buildafire.html

Not under a snow laden spruce tree, anyway...

 

[IQuest]

One technique that has not been mentioned for recovery from immersion is to roll in the snow before the water gets a chance to freeze in one's clothing. Snow is a sponge and will extract some water from the clothing before it freezes.

Never tried it myself--I was taught this tactic in winter school... (Also found in "Winter Camping", by Stephen Gorman, 2nd Ed, AMC Books, 1999, pp 138-139.)Doug

I've hear about this as well but from snowmakers at ski areas.