Toughest hiking in the woild?

[MattC]

It really depends on where you hike. I have come to the conclusion that the early trail makers did not believe in switchbacks here in the east.

Interesting topic. I happen to be reading "Forest and Crag" by Laura and Guy Waterman (General history of NE hiking/trailbuilding, etc.) and it gets into this stuff quite a bit. They discuss how there were sort of two schools in the early AMC and other groups. The two schools being Explorers and Improvers. The former prefered keeping trails as rugged as possible, while the later wanted to create more clear, hardened, level trails, switchbacks, shelters, etc. They give examples such as J. Rayner Edmunds of the "Improver" school, and Warren Hart of the "Explorer" school. Both of these men worked in the Whites, but the book deals with the ADKs, Vermont, Katahdin, etc. as well.
I can't possibly do this excellent book justice in a forum post. Highly recommended. I hope I haven't interupted the flow of this discussion.

Matt

 

[BrentD22]

Less O2 vs. stepness?

It's so person to person. When I explored CO the elevation got me at first, but I soon became used to it. I enjoyed the hiking and backpacking and yes the exposure made me uncomfortable at times too. Their where amazing views that didn't end and being at hieghts of 12,000 feet was exciting. I would have to say I've broken down at times in the Whites saying "I don't think I can take another step", I didn't do that in CO. I had to take breaks to catch my breath often, but I never felt my legs dying from the stepness of the trail.

 

[Raymond]

I understand the trails out West are built so horses can handle them. Not so here.

Stinkyfeet: Capitol Peak? I've seen pictures of it and thought "Never."

 

[proszach]

Potash is simply the hardest hike in the world. Period. There I said what everyone else was thinking.

 

[Neil]

Allthough I didn't say so in post #1 I was thinking in terms of purely physical difficulty in getting from A to B.

I remember returning to Grey Knob by going around the mountain from Jefferson. On the map it looked like cake, basically a traverse. Ha! That section of trail was real hard. All the big rocks, roots, trees etc. made this a very hard walk at the end of the day.

Then there's Mt Adams which is a pile of loose rocks covered in lichens that are slippery when wet and the descent from Haystack in the Dacks to Panther Gorge with a full pack...

 

[Pete_Hickey]

Stinkyfeet had it right.

Allthough I didn't say so in post #1 I was thinking in terms of purely physical difficulty in getting from A to B.

Even that's not good enough. For example steepness can make it hard... for some people. For me, I can just keep chugging along when it gets steep, and I don't consider it hard at all. However, if the footing is bad, I consider it harder. Someone who moves slow on steep sections may be bothered less by bad footing because they don't have a rhythm they're keeping (trying to keep).

Is crossing swamps physically difficult, or just difficult? What about going under/around blowdown?

Then again, if you put a full pack on me and I may have a different view on what is difficult.

Hey, I'm a mathematician. I want my terms defined.
.

 

[Neil]

Pete, here you go,

dd=(s) x (bd) x (w) x (e) x (pv)​

(f) x wc​

dd = degree of difficulty
s =steepness
bd = blow down
w= wetness
e= exposure
f= footing
wc= weather conditions

pv = personal variable, use your own value for this one

 

[RGF1]

Stinkyfeet, Would that certain peak in Colorado be Capitol, If so you are not the first person who felt un nerved on that knife edge. Lots of people look at it and turn around. Many use rope on that ridge.
Yes We do have O2 here actually it is more air pressure. Even if you do not get AMS altitude does effect you. You are also correct all of the “classic routes on peaks here are either class 1 or 2 walk ups . Capitol for example is a Class 4 or low class five climb depending on the route. Although the hikes in to the peaks are usually much easier and unless you are in a very heavily used area not very heavily used well at least by our standards. That is another thread heh heh One thing I am curious about and that is
Oh yeah good luck with your race out west.

"Interesting topic. I happen to be reading "Forest and Crag" by Laura and Guy Waterman (General history of NE hiking/trailbuilding, etc.) and it gets into this stuff quite a bit. They discuss how there were sort of two schools in the early AMC and other groups. The two schools being Explorers and Improvers. The former prefered keeping trails as rugged as possible, while the later wanted to create more clear, hardened, level trails, switchbacks, shelters, etc. They give examples such as J. Rayner Edmunds of the "Improver" school, and Warren Hart of the "Explorer" school. Both of these men worked in the Whites, but the book deals with the ADKs, Vermont, Katahdin, etc. as well.
I can't possibly do this excellent book justice in a forum post. Highly recommended. I hope I haven't interupted the flow of this discussion.

Matt"


Interesting bit of information , I do know that some trails in the Whites used to be horse and carriage roads, Crawford’s Path old Bridal Path for example, the trails up Osceola , Garfield and Carrigan used to be jeep roads to fire towers. I have often thought how is it that it now nearly impossible to know the former use of these trails. I know some places have been relocated. Speaking of hardening trails opps another thread also i can think of lots of them both in the east and west that need it badly . Some of the trails out west lead up valleys to passes some where made to accommodate pack animals and bringing equipment to and from mines.
Sherpa Kroto I must disagree the hardest hike is the one from the bed to coffee maker in the morning .

 

[Jay H]

dd=(s) x (bd) x (w) x (e) x (pv)
(f) x wc

What makes them hard for me is exposure. Never has a peak in the Northeast made me so scared that my legs have shaken uncontrollably and my stomach has churned to the point of almost throwing up.

(e) == 0

I guess there are no difficult hikes in the NE!

QED.



Jay

 

[Pete_Hickey]

dd=(s) x (bd) x (w) x (e) x (pv)​

(f) x wc​

dd = degree of difficulty
s =steepness
bd = blow down
w= wetness
e= exposure
f= footing
wc= weather conditions

pv = personal variable, use your own value for this one

I would argue that it is the sum, not the product (Jay demonstrated one problem with the product) The main reason, however, is the PV. PV exists for each conditions, thus:

dd= pv1*s + pv2*bd + pv3*w + pv4*e + pv5 + .... pvn*conditionN

And this clearly shows the problem. It's the existance of all the pvi (for i=1..n).

Like I said, pv1 for me, is very small. I don't find steepness hard.

To get a good concensus, you would have to difine dd diferently. More objectively.

 

[LittleBear]

Actually, the hardest hike is from the car to the house after a day (or days) of hiking and a 2 to 3 hour drive back home!

 

[Neil]

Ok, how about this:

DD=

AHR​

hd (t)​

AHR = ave. heart rate
hd = horizontal distance
t= time
you could also use thb or total heart beats and remove t from the equation.

 

[Rugger]

You would need to normalize it against your starting pulse rate as we all are different.

 

[Neil]

You would need to normalize it against your starting pulse rate as we all are different.

Here,

DD=

AHR-RHR​

hd (t)​

where RHR = resting hr

 

[jrbren]

I would not buy that the NE US is even close to toughest in the world. I find walking over glacial moraines (treadmill scree it is called up there) in the Canockies extremely taxing. From my readings of Washburn for example, hiking through the Alaskan glacier moraines and worring about finding a passable route through the maze of rivers which vary dramataically in level from time of day as extemely difficult. What dangerous anaimals do we have to worry about in th NE US ? Does glacier hiking count here ? The penitentes in the Andes look harder then anything I have dealt with here. High altitude not a problem here (when hiking become climbing) ? The forests of the NE US provide excellent shelter from the elements/weather. I guess I would vote for Antarctica or the northern tundra of Canada or Alaska is "hardest", depending on what set of problem you want to deal with.

 

[giggy]

"I met a guy on Lafayette that was from Seattle and he was transfered to Boston due to work. He stated New Hampshire was much harder than Rainer and the Northern Cascades for the small numbers regards elevation gain and mileage."

I really hope this is true - becuase I am going to rainier his summer - but my guess is that this dude was on crack - I just can't see rainier being eaiser than anything in the whites expect maybe doing all the gullies huntington in one day. But - I have never been on rainier - so I guess I could be wrong....

 

[RGF1]

Rainier

"I met a guy on Lafayette that was from Seattle and he was transfered to Boston due to work. He stated New Hampshire was much harder than Rainer and the Northern Cascades for the small numbers regards elevation gain and mileage."

I really hope this is true - becuase I am going to rainier his summer - but my guess is that this dude was on crack - I just can't see rainier being eaiser than anything in the whites expect maybe doing all the gullies huntington in one day. But - I have never been on rainier - so I guess I could be wrong....

Giggy , While I have not climbed Rainier, I do know people who have and am acquainted with some one who guides on it. . I can assure you, It is much more difficult than Lafayette. First there is a huge elevation gain usually you start your climb around 6,0000 ft and camp near 10,000 ft from there it is a snow and Glacier climb on a 20 -–50 degree slope .to 14,400 +. Most start at 2 am. It requires very good physical shape and competent glacier skills. There is a danger of rock fall and avalanches most of the time. You should know how to use rope to climb and for crevasse rescue, have a helmet along with a sturdy mountaineering tent. I am sure you have researched all this though.
Are going on a guided climb? If you are not familiar with climbing on a glaciated peak it is a very good idea. If you are familiar with such climbing then you probably do not need a guide. One thing you will be bringing a lot of gear with you. I had a bad experience with flying with gear the TSA searched one of my duffels and helped them selves to some gear! The Airline was stuck with the bill. I suggest Using UPS to ship the gear to your hotel if you call them most will hold it for you they are used to this .in the area around The park
It could be that the guy was talking about hiking around Rainier. Or he was full of bull crap.
Lafayette is one of my favorites in NH partly because it is close by 2 hr ride or less, I can get to the top of a fairly high eastern mountain with great views with relative ease. The hike has nice views for a good distance and I have the option of going down Falling Waters a scenic trail with all those waterfalls,. Ice falls in the winter. Or up it. By no means does it compare to the difficult peaks out west in terms of difficulty. But it is a great hike no matter what any one thinks.
I hope you have a great climb and summit. !

 

[Neil]

I would not buy that the NE US is even close to toughest in the world. I find walking over glacial moraines (treadmill scree it is called up there) in the Canockies extremely taxing. From my readings of Washburn for example, hiking through the Alaskan glacier moraines and worring about finding a passable route through the maze of rivers which vary dramataically in level from time of day as extemely difficult. What dangerous anaimals do we have to worry about in th NE US ? Does glacier hiking count here ? The penitentes in the Andes look harder then anything I have dealt with here. High altitude not a problem here (when hiking become climbing) ? The forests of the NE US provide excellent shelter from the elements/weather. I guess I would vote for Antarctica or the northern tundra of Canada or Alaska is "hardest", depending on what set of problem you want to deal with.

I agree 100% about the treadmill scree in the Cdn. Rockies as well as the grizzly hazard but I'm restricting the comparison to hiking trails. The trails in the Rockies are MUCH easier to hike on than in the NE.

 

[jrbren]

I agree 100% about the treadmill scree in the Cdn. Rockies as well as the grizzly hazard but I'm restricting the comparison to hiking trails. The trails in the Rockies are MUCH easier to hike on than in the NE.

Now I agree. Whenever I have been outwest the trails are generally engineered with switchbacks that make the elevations gains seem much easier. I good example is Sourdough Mt, in the North Cascades. The trail gains 5200 vertical feet to the look out over many switchbacks on a very foot friendly trail. I did not find the hike all that taxing. In the east there seem to be many more obstacles on the trails (tree roots, ankle twisting softball size rocks, etc...) then the trails in the western US & Canada (I have done very little trail hiking in Canada, but those trails I did do around Lake Louise & Yoho seemed very foot friendly too). NE US trails seem to go directly up the mountain sometimes, especially in the Adirondacks, like herd paths. Some of the ADK maintained trails seem like herd paths with trail markers.

 

[giggy]

researched (and still researching) to the "t" -