Trail Bandit Ossipee Mountains (NH) Map - 1st Edition (2009)

[RoySwkr]

The Trail Bandit requests any feedback/suggested changes you may have as he prepares to go to press.

It doesn't label Lee Mtn (from PT map) and Mountain View (from BPCC map) although it includes many other unofficial names

It does show the secret connector that TB found that is part of the shortest route to Mt Shaw from the Castle

 

[carole]

What about making the colors of the trails on the map match the color of the blazes the trail is marked with?

I personally think it makes it more confusing. The AMC and Map Adventures maps use red for trails and it seems to work even in busy areas like the Sandwich Range or trails out of or around Appalachia.

Another nice feature would be marking where there are views.

I agree. One I understand is called 'Ledgewood Cliff' which is the viewpoint side trail off the Mt. Roberts Trail.

It does show the secret connector that TB found that is part of the shortest route to Mt Shaw from the Castle

If you are referring to the Bridle Path (Upper and Lower) that is no secret but newly cleared and opened this year.

 

[carole]

When we went by the lot off Shannon Brook it was taken over by snowmobilers and the trail itself seemed to be well travelled by them. We parked up the road at the plant and encountered none.

I have posted this before but to repeat regarding snowmobiles - they have access through the Castle property on the Shannon Brook trail, Turtleback Mt. trail and the High Ridge trail portion between Turtleback trail and Mt. Shaw. All other trails on the Castle property are off limits to snowmobilers.

 

[Trail Bandit]

Hi Roy, Ok, you are correct that Lee Mtn, and Mountain View are not on the map. As you point out there is some history to these names. Grab the bat and stand up to the plate, should I put them in or not? Thanks for the input. Bob

 

[Papa Bear]

Hi Roy, Ok, you are correct that Lee Mtn, and Mountain View are not on the map. As you point out there is some history to these names. Grab the bat and stand up to the plate, should I put them in or not? Thanks for the input. Bob

I would include all names either in common use or of historic significance, but you may want to distinguish names not in the USGS official names list (whatever it's called) from "common" names, typographically. Maybe use italics or quotation marks or something else different. If that's too much trouble, forget it. Does anyone know of any commonly used (or uncommonly used) treatment of these non-official names?

As an example, I notice you have "Black Snout Mtn. (N)" and "... (S)". This name has been discussed, but I don't think it's such a good idea to create new names for this case. Since the "(N)" one is a official name it should stay (without the "[N]"). The other, being a "common" (not official) name should get some other treatment, perhaps typographical as I suggested.

The last thing we need is another Kearsarge North.

 

[Silverfox]

Frank Falb

such a labor of love ..this map and trail marking

another gentleman who loved the Ossipees, and Roberts/Faraway in particular
Frank Falb..longtime OTHH member

has a bench and cleared view to his name..perhaps the finest viewpoint in that area of the range

even though it is not a "highpoint" it may be worthy of a symbol on the map as Map Adventures, for example, shows with a little * star

adding the parking areas a great thought as well

 

[MichaelJ]

The cool thing about the JPG format map is that it can be dropped into Google Earth as a text overlay, and then it takes on the 3-D terrain view and can be navigated around.

 

[Amicus]

As an example, I notice you have "Black Snout Mtn. (N)" and "... (S)". This name has been discussed, but I don't think it's such a good idea to create new names for this case. Since the "(N)" one is a official name it should stay (without the "[N]"). The other, being a "common" (not official) name should get some other treatment, perhaps typographical as I suggested.

The last thing we need is another Kearsarge North.

I second this, heartily (and think of "Kearsarge No." as "Pequawket," although I'm less vehement than some about that). Quotes and Itals would do for those unofficial names. Also, that 90-year old golf club promotional map calls Shaw So. peak "Black Snoot," which would be a useful distinction to attempt to revive (as rocket21 has advocated).

"Faraway" also deserves Quotes and Itals. since it didn't make the USGS name register (and it's ambiguous placement is diplomatic).

I never knew about "Lee Mtn." until I saw it on SummitPost and wondered what it could be - I have no strong view, bur think it might confuse more than enlighten. "Mountain View" lacks one - best forgotten.

 

[rocket21]

Also, that 90-year old golf club promotional map calls Shaw So. peak "Black Snoot," which would be a useful distinction to attempt to revive (as rocket21 has advocated).

Advocated? Concluded!

 

[RoySwkr]

If you are referring to the Bridle Path (Upper and Lower) that is no secret but newly cleared and opened this year.

No, the connector off Cold Spring

 

[Papa Bear]

I ... think of "Kearsarge No." as "Pequawket," although I'm less vehement than some about that.
...

A while back I found a US Government report from 1877 which bears on the use of the name "Kearsarge North". Rather than hijacking this thread, I started an new one.

What's in a name: Kearsarge North

Enjoy.

 

[Trail Bandit]

Hi Papa Bear. Your discussion about trying to avoid the Keasarge problem when making a map to show the Black Snout name for two summits in the Ossipee range is a valid point. I don't know how the hill on the south shoulder of Mt. Shaw, ever came to be called Black Snout, but a lot of people have used it to name the hill for a long time. The summit to the north ihas been so named for a long time on USGS maps. An earlier suggestion was to use different type fonts to clarify the distinction but I think that would be lost on people. So far, I think the best solution is to stick with the Black Snout (N) and Black Snout (S).
There are Bear Hills and Rattle Snake Mountains all over NH.

 

[Papa Bear]

Hi Papa Bear. Your discussion about trying to avoid the Keasarge problem when making a map to show the Black Snout name for two summits in the Ossipee range is a valid point. I don't know how the hill on the south shoulder of Mt. Shaw, ever came to be called Black Snout, but a lot of people have used it to name the hill for a long time. The summit to the north ihas been so named for a long time on USGS maps. An earlier suggestion was to use different type fonts to clarify the distinction but I think that would be lost on people. So far, I think the best solution is to stick with the Black Snout (N) and Black Snout (S).
There are Bear Hills and Rattle Snake Mountains all over NH.

Yeah it's too bad they're both in the Ossipees. I'm just worrying that those "(N)"s and "(S)"s will become part of the names. I like them just the way they are, Black Snout and Black Snout. Or maybe take the "Mtn." off the one south of Shaw and call it Black Snout knob.

Maybe a footnote if you think folks will start climbing the wrong peak. The AMC Southern NH Trail Guide just says "This knob is often referred to as Black Snout but is not the peak labeled Black Snout Mtn. on maps". So maybe a footnote such as that.

 

[rocket21]

Yeah it's too bad they're both in the Ossipees. I'm just worrying that those "(N)"s and "(S)"s will become part of the names. I like them just the way they are, Black Snout and Black Snout. Or maybe take the "Mtn." off the one south of Shaw and call it Black Snout knob.

Maybe a footnote if you think folks will start climbing the wrong peak. The AMC Southern NH Trail Guide just says "This knob is often referred to as Black Snout but is not the peak labeled Black Snout Mtn. on maps". So maybe a footnote such as that.

Of course, simply calling it Black Snoot fixes all said problems, but I digress

 

[Trail Bandit]

Hi to all again, but with a different question. I was thinking of drawing a grid of lines on the map, every minute of angle of latitude and longitude. This would allow GPS users to easily determine the coordinates (using a piece of graph paper or a ruler) of anyplace they wanted to go to, fairly easily. The other side of the coin is theat the more stuff you show on a map, the more congested it gets. People could always draw their own lines from the marks on the edge of the map. Also, I should probably also put a couple of arrows showing which is true north and magnetic north so people can easily line up the map with their compass. Just saying that the magnetic declination is
15 Deg. 20 Min. west may not convey the picture to everybody. Any thoughts?
Using the suggested Black Snoot seems to add another level of confusion unless you can get everybody else to sign on, which won't happen.

 

[Trail Bandit]

Maybe a footnote if you think folks will start climbing the wrong peak. The AMC Southern NH Trail Guide just says "This knob is often referred to as Black Snout but is not the peak labeled Black Snout Mtn. on maps". So maybe a footnote such as that.

Hi again Papa Bear. I was not planning to do trail or any other descriptions for this first edition. The LRCT is comming out with a new map this year and their previous maps have had good trail descriptions. I am sort of trying to fill in the big blank that lies outside of their property. There is a lot of great wandering to be done out there.

 

[Papa Bear]

Hi again Papa Bear. I was not planning to do trail or any other descriptions for this first edition. The LRCT is coming out with a new map this year and their previous maps have had good trail descriptions. I am sort of trying to fill in the big blank that lies outside of their property. There is a lot of great wandering to be done out there.

I think what you are doing is the right thing at the right time and most everyone will be very grateful. Consider this issue a minor nit-pick.

Now ... I still don't know how I'm ever going to do a complete circular traverse of the entire Ossipee ring dike.

 

[sardog1]

Hi to all again, but with a different question. I was thinking of drawing a grid of lines on the map, every minute of angle of latitude and longitude. This would allow GPS users to easily determine the coordinates (using a piece of graph paper or a ruler) of anyplace they wanted to go to, fairly easily. The other side of the coin is theat the more stuff you show on a map, the more congested it gets. People could always draw their own lines from the marks on the edge of the map. Also, I should probably also put a couple of arrows showing which is true north and magnetic north so people can easily line up the map with their compass. Just saying that the magnetic declination is
15 Deg. 20 Min. west may not convey the picture to everybody. Any thoughts?

Please consider using a UTM grid instead of lat/on; it is much more useful for land navigation.

A declination diagram is a good idea, especially if you're easy-going like me on the use of such a diagram. (Put the number on the map as well, for Protractor Boy. )

 

[DougPaul]

Please consider using a UTM grid instead of lat/on; it is much more useful for land navigation.

Not everyone prefers or even uses UTM for land navigation. (Me, for one--a lat-lon grid would be far more useful to me.) Please at least keep the lat-lon numbers along the borders.

One approach would be to follow the conventions used on the most recent 24/25K USGS topos. (Which seem to be both UTM and lat-lon marks and labels on the borders and a UTM grid.)

Another approach would be to print both grids in different colors.

Doug

 

[Trail Bandit]

Thank you all for the input on the grid question. Let's see, we have the lat lon grid, the UTM grid, and for the compass users we can have a magnetic based grid (there will need to be a correction table as the damn pole keeps moving). My take on a map is that it should be a representation of what is on the ground. I am talking map VS trail guide, this map isn't going to have the nice trail descriptions provided by the LRCT. Search as you may, you won't find any grid lines on the ground in the Ossipees. I did find a line painted across a road and a big sign that told me I was on the Equator, in one of my travels. I don't like the UTM grid because the lines aren't running N,S, E, and W so I will add a fine black line grid for the Latitude and longitude. I will use the WGS84 horizontal datum, which is the most common default for the GPS users. This said, if there are any more strong opinions on this topic, I will consider them. This map is for you.