Trail Maintainence in the Whites, what's Ok ?

[una_dogger]

What constitutes appropriate and allowable trail maintenance in the
WMNF?

Some Points to frame the discussion:

1. What constitutes appropriate Maintainence
On open trails?

2. What activities on open trails are prohibited?

3. What is the penalty, if any, and who is the agency
That issues the penalty?

Please cite your sources with official links

<hypothetical examples follow>

The main question I personally have is regarding blowdown. If I come across blowdown across the trail that is light enough for me to move aside or skinny
Enough for me to cut with a small handsaw, and I am on an open, designated trail (not bushwhacking), am I permitted to clear it ? Personally I feel it's a good thing to do for the trail, because it keeps hikers from creating a new trail around the obstacle.

We all love the mountains and no one seeks to destroy them or break any laws. These are our shared public lands and we are proud of them!

Since this topic has come up on another thread, and there are some knowledgable folks on the forum as well as many hikers who have questions, let's discuss!

 

[erugs]

A current Trip Report from the Wildcats has been somewhat hi-jacked to bring up this topic. Here is my response, copied from that thread:

It seems the question of helping out on a trail is "how much is too much." Moving blowdowns that can be moved easily by one or a small group is okay, in my opinion. One of my friends and I regularly "sweep" downed branches aside as we go. Another has been known to "kick" a water bar free of rubble if it helps to quickly drain an area.

The other side of that conundrum is, if I have adopted a trail (and I have) and I plan a certain day to go and brush it out (as I have) only to find out that someone else was there ahead of me without my knowledge and done some considerable work (it's happened)...well, it is a little annoying. Good but frustrating.

My spare time is precious. My last visit to my adopted trail last fall and it was pretty much unnecessary, much to my surprise. I could have used this time where it was needed more (helping my family on a household project) or working on my hiking list or doing something else that was fun. I'm happy to do trail work but don't care much to walk a trail that's been recently worked on so that my visit there is unproductive, never mind carrying with me the tools of the trade.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

I guess my question is - why are you asking this? Did you have some specific incident that prompted it?

If you're driving down the road, and there's an obstruction that poses a danger to you and others, and you can physically move it - then many people (including myself) will do it. It might be a rock, a boulder, a downed limb, small tree, etc. In doing so, you may prevent harm to other vehicles, and possibly bodily injury.

Why won't the same logic apply if you're hiking on public lands?

 

[RoySwkr]

You are allowed to use dead and down wood for campfires, so if I see a blowdown I can cut it for firewood. If I then decide it took so long that I want to keep hiking instead of building a fire, I can't see how that is illegal

As to waterbars, there was actually a suggestion a couple years ago that everybody should scuff a couple every hike. Since mineral collecting is a valid use of the NF and you are digging in an already-disturbed area (the trail) it would be hard to call it bad.

I would say that pruning live branches without a maintenance agreement is probably illegal and you could receive a citation for it, unfortunately some maintainers are too lazy to do the proper clearing and there was one notable case years ago where the long-time adopters disagreed with the FS guidelines and simply refused to widen their section to the proper width.

I often find that people have helped on my section of trail, nearly always to the good. Unless I am willing to go out every day (or at least after every storm) there will always be work to do.

 

[Tim Seaver]

Nontroversy #24536

An older thread on this

"Vigilante Trail Clearing Reports" never did catch on for some reason...

 

[Lefty E]

As trail adopter of the Mahoosuc Trail from the Centennial/Mahoosuc jct. near Mt. Hayes, I would thank hikers who have removed small blowdowns and unplug clogged water bars. Sometimes "our" trail is a source of pride and if folks do alot of trimming or brushing without the adopter(s) knowledge, it might create some hurt feelings. AMC Trail Adopter Handbook does say if possible the adopter should ski or snowshoe the trail..I did mine once in winter and trimmed some and marked other spots for more trimming when spring came...but I also used 6 volunteers to get that trail back in shape and we spent about 20 hrs a piece the first year doing it. One could contact the AMC at Pinkham to see if anyone maintains that section from D to A. Trail Adopters are bound by AMC guidelines and blazing is one where it is not always possible to get the blazes above where the snow level would be..that's why maps, compasses and GPS and a good sense of direction is needed!! Lefty E

 

[una_dogger]

I guess my question is - why are you asking this? Did you have some specific incident that prompted it?

No specific incident other than the inadvertent hijack of another thread!

If you're driving down the road, and there's an obstruction that poses a danger to you and others, and you can physically move it - then many people (including myself) will do it. It might be a rock, a boulder, a downed limb, small tree, etc. In doing so, you may prevent harm to other vehicles, and possibly bodily injury.

Why won't the same logic apply if you're hiking on public lands?

I agree, but is it against a regulation? And if so, is it punishable by law...and where? If the trail is posted against it (eg, Passaconnaway Slide, closed trail). Or does this expand itself to all open trails in the WMNF?

Appreciate all the opinions and share many of them. How about some hard facts??

Thanks for the Nontroversy Link, Tim.

 

[peakbagger-paul]

I'm a trail adopter for the Mt Clinton Trail. There have always been a considerable number of blowdowns after the winter, so if anyone wants to remove a few, be my guest. Last year was so bad, I never even got to the lower part of the trail near the Dry River. However, since it's a wilderness trail, I'm only supposed to remove blowdowns that are not easy to get under or step over. Chances are that no one would bother removing these anyway.

Also, wilderness trails are not blazed and the trail corridor is narrower.

 

[MadRiver]

My trail, Webster Cliff, seems to be prone to an inordinate amount of blown downs in the last few years. Most are too big for me to remove, so the professional crew that does their yearly sweep has to remove them. As an adopter I would have no problem with a hiker or group of hikers removing a blow down that is obstructing the trail or cleaning out a waterbar that has become clogged and is spilling over onto the trail. Where I would draw the line is blazing and brushing.

Someone several years ago placed a blaze on a boulder along my trail and I was pissed for several reasons. First, there was no need for the blaze since there were two blazes within sight of the boulder. And second, both the AMC and the NF have begun to discourage blazing on rocks. My trail is a major AT corridor and is well maintained so I have been allowing some of the more superfluous blazing to fade.

As far as brushing, I have seen some pretty bad hack jobs done on trees while hiking and I would be pissed if someone did that to my trail. Number one, it looks like crap, and number two, I do not want other hikers thinking that this is how I maintain my trail, so please leave the brushing to the adopter. If you feel the need to brush a trail because it is turning into a car wash, then contact the overseeing agency and volunteer to help brush the trail with the adopter or region leader.

Never mess with a Princess’s trail!
P/B

 

[erugs]

If you feel the need to brush a trail because it is turning into a car wash, then contact the overseeing agency and volunteer to help brush the trail with the adopter or region leader.

I like the idea that other people may ask to help the adopter. If anyone wants to hike the East Pond Trail from the Kanc to Height of Land with me and help out, please let me know. It's a nice trail...

 

[Kevin Rooney]

I agree, but is it against a regulation? And if so, is it punishable by law...and where?

I certainly hope not! But, it's entirely possible one exists somewhere in the US CFR as there seems to be an endless supply of control freaks.

Personally, I've always lived my life by the credo "It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission" which I believe is attributed to a rather independent lady USN admiral, Grace Hopper. 60 Minutes interviewed her many years ago - she's remarkable.

But I digress ...

 

[Lefty E]

Yes I think Andy, oops mean Kevin, might be correct. Checked with folks in the trails division at AMC and the thought is the hiking trails are not maintained for winter hiking. The 4 feet wide by 8 feet high is for trails when there is no snow, therefore trimming trails in winter is discouraged. If a person is seen or reported maintaining trails without being registered with USFS or AMC as an adopter, there most likely would be a problem. Still be getting snow down the neck I guess.....

 

[Kevin Rooney]

As a practical matter, I think few would disagree that a 4x8 corridor is a reasonable measure. After all, clearing it overhead up to 8'
is difficult, even for some 6' tall. I doubt anyone here would advocate for trail maintainers lugging stepladders on their trail efforts!

Having said that, the Wildcat trail is still a good example of a poorly maintained trail.

 

[una_dogger]

As a practical matter, I think few would disagree that a 4x8 corridor is a reasonable measure. After all, clearing it overhead up to 8'
is difficult, even for some 6' tall. I doubt anyone here would advocate for trail maintainers lugging stepladders on their trail efforts!

Having said that, the Wildcat trail is still a good example of a poorly maintained trail.

And Only on the Internet can giving a thumbs up to trail conditions incite claims of criminal activity....still waiting for a link to the law...

Maintaining to those standards in my mind seems like a minimum standard, however, if an authorized individual sees fit to do a bit higher and is willing to put in the work.....

 

[MadRiver]

The exception to the 4x8 rule is if it is a ski trail, then it is trimmed to 4x10. At the risk of incurring the wrath of the maintenance police, I am very mindful of winter travel when I am brushing my trail. I also like to do one or two trips in winter to remove the most egregious of limbs that might hinder travel in winter. This can be done with little effort and it doesn’t affect the overall aesthetics of the trail. Shhhhh this will be our little secret.

 

[psmart]

...still waiting for a link to the law...

Citations of this nature in the WMNF are VERY rare. The closest case I can recall was someone building a fairly elaborate campsite with cut trees, etc. As I recall, they were cited for "unauthorized alterations" or something to that effect.

The best answer to your question would be to ask one of the WMNF Law Enforcement Officers.

 

[Stan]

FWIW, I think that common sense, that rarest of commodities, should be the rule. Of course, that sometimes flies in the face of regulations and rules but that's another discussion. Sorry, can't cite a CFR on that ...

I don't usually carry much in the way of handtools when I'm hiking or camping but I have no problem breaking off small branches that are just waiting to whack someone in the face or eye, sweeping out an occasional waterbar, moving an obstruction, and the like ... and I try to leave an improved campsite a little bit cleaner or neater (straightening up a fire pit for example) and a bootleg site even less conspicuous.

I don't think anyone should feel an obligation to do these things and often pass up obvious "maintenance" myself when time or fickle temperament dictate.

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

An older thread on this

"Vigilante Trail Clearing Reports" never did catch on for some reason...

Love these 5+ year old threads; thanks for posting link.

 

[RoySwkr]

....still waiting for a link to the law...

Here is the link to the Forest Plan,some guy with initials MJ is better at finding stuff in it than me
http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/forests/white_mountain/projects/forest_plan/index.php

Here is the Law Enforcement page, note the "no cutting live trees" and "ok to use dead and down wood" that I mentioned earlier
http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/forests/white_mountain/law_enforcement/general_rules.php

 

[NewHampshire]

Just to add my .02 cents, I pretty much agree with the other adopters here.....blowdowns no problems, waterbars no problems, but brushing I ask please no. Blazes no also, but I have not put great effort into blazing my section because thankfully it is very obvious and has only ever needed very little, thus I could never conceive why someone would want to place an illegal blaze anyways..

Brian