Trap Dike
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MrOysterhead
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There used to be a group of hardcore locals from Lake Placid that skiied the Dyke every winter. This winter has been really low on snow so it may be super icy. We're attempting the Dyke this coming weekend and I'll post a report on the snow conditions.
peace
Oysterhead
peace
Oysterhead
TCD
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Climb the Dike, ski the slides
TonyL,
I've done the trip several times. In my opinion, this is the best winter day trip in the Adirondacks. The climbing is great, and the skiing is great, and it represents excellent style overall, being a full traverse of the mountain.
I don't know your experience / equipment level, so excuse me if some of this is too basic.
Avalanche potential:
Both the dike and the slides are ripe with avalanche potential. Make sure you know what you're doing. Remember conditions can change quickly.
Climbing the dike:
Once you get to Av Pass, shoot right along the lake to the base of the dike. If you're not familiar with the area, don't confuse the "Adirondike" ice climb with the trap dike. Coming from the Loj, the adirondike comes first (N) and is intimidatingly steep. The trap dike is wide and obvious, with a large debris / tree cone at its base. I usually hike up the tree cone, and then switch to climbing mode just before I enter the mouth of the dike. I try to minimize my time in the dike (speed is safety).
The dike climb varies greatly depending on conditions. It is definitely a technical climb, requiring crampons and technical experience. It is not a "hike." But at this time of year, it's usually mostly a snow climb. There will be a few sections of exposed ice, most notably at what's known as the "second waterfall", which can be a steep ice step about 30' high. The equipment you bring and the style you use depends on conditions and experience. I have soloed the dike with just a long axe in big snow years, and I have led the dike with two short tools and placed screws in leaner years. Remember that your climbing will be complicated by carrying skis, and that you want to move quickly up and out of the dike, because it's a terrain trap for avalanches. The easiest exit is when the grade eases. You'll see some pretty frozen waterfalls on the left side, and a wide snow slope on the right.
Climbing the slide:
After you exit the dike, you still have a lot of slide to climb. Again, conditions vary, but this is basically mountaineering. Brush up on french technique, self arrest, etc. People have been killed on this section. Watch the wind; it can blow you off your feet, especially when carrying skis (sails).
The slides above the dike will bring you to the summit ridge at a large boulder. If you're interested in tagging the true summit, go left (N) along the trail on the ridge about 200', and there's a little side trail that goes up about 15' to the summit.
Skiing the slides:
The best slide for skiing is the Lake Arnold slide, that runs SE towards Marcy. People have skied the dike, but it's rarely in condition for skiing unless you're sicker than me. The slides that run toward Av Pass are dangerous, and end in cliffs.
If you've looked at the Lake Arnold slide, you know that there is a steep top section, which is paralleled by older slides to skiers right (S). The steep top of the LA slide often is bare rock, because it's very new (12 years) and there's not much to hold snow. Usually, I ski the older slide down to it's end, and then traverse left a few yards through the woods to the LA slide's lower section.
The very summit ridge has some small cliffs (12') that are a pain to get down. Therefore, the best way to get to the top of the skiing is to take the trail along the ridge S for about 150' and then hook down around left to the top of the slide. This will bring you to a nice spot where you can switch to skis.
Don't forget that Avalanche conditions can be different on the SE side from the NW side. Be careful!
The skiing is moderate all the way down. The top part, on the old slide, is wide open with a few scattered trees (very "western" looking), and about "single black diamond" in steepness. After you get to the trees on that slide, you traverse left to the long run out on the LA slide, which is mostly "blue square", with a couple of steeper spots.
Exit:
The slide will bring you to the Lake Arnold Pass trail. At the bottom of the slide, you will see a flat area of slide that curls around to the right (S). Don't follow that all the way to the end. When you get to the end of the straight section, cut straight through the woods due E. It's only about 200' to the trail. To return to the Loj, turn left, climb the long hill up to Lake Arnold, and then enjoy the relaxing ski out.
Equipment:
I usually carry a long ax and a short tool. In good years the short tool stays on the pack. Rope, screws, harness, all depends on you and your partner. I use my Grivel 2F crampons, because they're flexible, and have wide horizontal front point for snow climbing, but are still OK on moderate ice.
I use Karhu Catamounts for skis. There's quite a bit of up and down on the trails and these work well. A wider, "lift served" type ski would probably be better on the slides, but not as good on the trail. Of course this will vary with your plan. You could snowshoe in and carry skis, etc. Many variations are possible.
For boots, I just go in my Scarpa T1s. They ski great, they climb pretty well, and they're pretty warm. They're a little heavy, but oh well. If you are going to use this kind of set up, make sure to set your crampons up at home for the boots. You need to extend the front points to get far enough past the "duckbill" on a ski boot.
I use extendable poles, so I can put them away on the pack when climbing.
Have a great trip!
TCD
TonyL,
I've done the trip several times. In my opinion, this is the best winter day trip in the Adirondacks. The climbing is great, and the skiing is great, and it represents excellent style overall, being a full traverse of the mountain.
I don't know your experience / equipment level, so excuse me if some of this is too basic.
Avalanche potential:
Both the dike and the slides are ripe with avalanche potential. Make sure you know what you're doing. Remember conditions can change quickly.
Climbing the dike:
Once you get to Av Pass, shoot right along the lake to the base of the dike. If you're not familiar with the area, don't confuse the "Adirondike" ice climb with the trap dike. Coming from the Loj, the adirondike comes first (N) and is intimidatingly steep. The trap dike is wide and obvious, with a large debris / tree cone at its base. I usually hike up the tree cone, and then switch to climbing mode just before I enter the mouth of the dike. I try to minimize my time in the dike (speed is safety).
The dike climb varies greatly depending on conditions. It is definitely a technical climb, requiring crampons and technical experience. It is not a "hike." But at this time of year, it's usually mostly a snow climb. There will be a few sections of exposed ice, most notably at what's known as the "second waterfall", which can be a steep ice step about 30' high. The equipment you bring and the style you use depends on conditions and experience. I have soloed the dike with just a long axe in big snow years, and I have led the dike with two short tools and placed screws in leaner years. Remember that your climbing will be complicated by carrying skis, and that you want to move quickly up and out of the dike, because it's a terrain trap for avalanches. The easiest exit is when the grade eases. You'll see some pretty frozen waterfalls on the left side, and a wide snow slope on the right.
Climbing the slide:
After you exit the dike, you still have a lot of slide to climb. Again, conditions vary, but this is basically mountaineering. Brush up on french technique, self arrest, etc. People have been killed on this section. Watch the wind; it can blow you off your feet, especially when carrying skis (sails).
The slides above the dike will bring you to the summit ridge at a large boulder. If you're interested in tagging the true summit, go left (N) along the trail on the ridge about 200', and there's a little side trail that goes up about 15' to the summit.
Skiing the slides:
The best slide for skiing is the Lake Arnold slide, that runs SE towards Marcy. People have skied the dike, but it's rarely in condition for skiing unless you're sicker than me. The slides that run toward Av Pass are dangerous, and end in cliffs.
If you've looked at the Lake Arnold slide, you know that there is a steep top section, which is paralleled by older slides to skiers right (S). The steep top of the LA slide often is bare rock, because it's very new (12 years) and there's not much to hold snow. Usually, I ski the older slide down to it's end, and then traverse left a few yards through the woods to the LA slide's lower section.
The very summit ridge has some small cliffs (12') that are a pain to get down. Therefore, the best way to get to the top of the skiing is to take the trail along the ridge S for about 150' and then hook down around left to the top of the slide. This will bring you to a nice spot where you can switch to skis.
Don't forget that Avalanche conditions can be different on the SE side from the NW side. Be careful!
The skiing is moderate all the way down. The top part, on the old slide, is wide open with a few scattered trees (very "western" looking), and about "single black diamond" in steepness. After you get to the trees on that slide, you traverse left to the long run out on the LA slide, which is mostly "blue square", with a couple of steeper spots.
Exit:
The slide will bring you to the Lake Arnold Pass trail. At the bottom of the slide, you will see a flat area of slide that curls around to the right (S). Don't follow that all the way to the end. When you get to the end of the straight section, cut straight through the woods due E. It's only about 200' to the trail. To return to the Loj, turn left, climb the long hill up to Lake Arnold, and then enjoy the relaxing ski out.
Equipment:
I usually carry a long ax and a short tool. In good years the short tool stays on the pack. Rope, screws, harness, all depends on you and your partner. I use my Grivel 2F crampons, because they're flexible, and have wide horizontal front point for snow climbing, but are still OK on moderate ice.
I use Karhu Catamounts for skis. There's quite a bit of up and down on the trails and these work well. A wider, "lift served" type ski would probably be better on the slides, but not as good on the trail. Of course this will vary with your plan. You could snowshoe in and carry skis, etc. Many variations are possible.
For boots, I just go in my Scarpa T1s. They ski great, they climb pretty well, and they're pretty warm. They're a little heavy, but oh well. If you are going to use this kind of set up, make sure to set your crampons up at home for the boots. You need to extend the front points to get far enough past the "duckbill" on a ski boot.
I use extendable poles, so I can put them away on the pack when climbing.
Have a great trip!
TCD
Thank You!
TCD:
You are a god!
That was the most detailed description. Thank you. I climb ice in the 3+/4 range and I don’t expect any problems climbing the Dike proper and the slide to the top. Skiing on the other hand is questionable. It is more of an issue of route finding on the descent. I’ve climbed the NF of Gothics four times and skied True North a few years back. I will again be attempting a climb/ski descent of Gothics this coming weekend. I haven’t yet made up my mind if I’m willing to take on the responsibility for taking someone down the slides on Colden. I'll decide in the next month. It appears that you know the Daks well. Jesse Williams from ADK Mountain School has offered to guide me down the slides. I’m looking to do a trip the first weekend in April should things fall into place. If you are interested in doing the trip again please let me know. Any chance you’ll be at the Skifest or in the vicinity Skifest weekend?
TCD:
You are a god!
That was the most detailed description. Thank you. I climb ice in the 3+/4 range and I don’t expect any problems climbing the Dike proper and the slide to the top. Skiing on the other hand is questionable. It is more of an issue of route finding on the descent. I’ve climbed the NF of Gothics four times and skied True North a few years back. I will again be attempting a climb/ski descent of Gothics this coming weekend. I haven’t yet made up my mind if I’m willing to take on the responsibility for taking someone down the slides on Colden. I'll decide in the next month. It appears that you know the Daks well. Jesse Williams from ADK Mountain School has offered to guide me down the slides. I’m looking to do a trip the first weekend in April should things fall into place. If you are interested in doing the trip again please let me know. Any chance you’ll be at the Skifest or in the vicinity Skifest weekend?
TCD
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TonyL,
Thanks! I enjoy that trip a lot, so I remember the details.
I won't be around skifest weekend, but I might be able to squeeze that trip in later, like you suggest. A couple other people on this board who might enjoy that trip are ExplorerEditor and IcenSnow.
The biggest watch out on any of the slides is avalanches. The skiing is OK. The route finding is really not that hard. On Colden, you can see the long runout section from the top, so you just follow your nose. Slides all tend to run straight down the fall line.
I've run into Jesse up there a few times, and he seems like a good guy, so you should have fun. Another good resource is Don's climbing guide. It's due to be replaced with new editions in the next year, so you might be able to pick up a copy cheap somewhere. It has a good section on climbing the slides, where you can pick up "in reverse" info to help with skiing.
If you have a trip planned and want company, post it in Trips and Events.
TCD
Thanks! I enjoy that trip a lot, so I remember the details.
I won't be around skifest weekend, but I might be able to squeeze that trip in later, like you suggest. A couple other people on this board who might enjoy that trip are ExplorerEditor and IcenSnow.
The biggest watch out on any of the slides is avalanches. The skiing is OK. The route finding is really not that hard. On Colden, you can see the long runout section from the top, so you just follow your nose. Slides all tend to run straight down the fall line.
I've run into Jesse up there a few times, and he seems like a good guy, so you should have fun. Another good resource is Don's climbing guide. It's due to be replaced with new editions in the next year, so you might be able to pick up a copy cheap somewhere. It has a good section on climbing the slides, where you can pick up "in reverse" info to help with skiing.
If you have a trip planned and want company, post it in Trips and Events.
TCD
NYBRAD
New member
I've heard of people skiing the slides down farther towards Lake Colden camping area. These would be the slides you would see after gaining the height of land past Avalanche Lake. I've studied them a few times, and they look to be very ski able in a good snow year.
Not to sound like a turd but, I would definitely not ski alone that far back off trail, or with even the slightest chance of favorable avalanche conditions.
Buddy up bra.
Not to sound like a turd but, I would definitely not ski alone that far back off trail, or with even the slightest chance of favorable avalanche conditions.
Buddy up bra.
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snowman
New member
For those just looking to climb the Dyke, do people usually xc ski in for the approach? Do you leave skiis at the bottom and return after the climb? Sorry, never been in that area.
Anyone interested in doing it this weekend?
Anyone interested in doing it this weekend?
AOC
New member
Best to leave the skis at the Avalanche Camp lean-to and snowshoe up and over Avalanche Pass. That way you can descend the Lake Arnold trail and won't have to retrace your steps back over the pass to retrieve your skis. Of course, you'll have to carry snowshoes , but you'll need those anyway for the descent from the summit.
EMM
New member
Hi TCD
Have you ever skinned up the Lake Arnold slide as you describe it in your posting? I am assuming that this can be done without climbing equipment except an ice axe? I am considering doing this as i am not ready to climb the dyke yet.
EMM
Have you ever skinned up the Lake Arnold slide as you describe it in your posting? I am assuming that this can be done without climbing equipment except an ice axe? I am considering doing this as i am not ready to climb the dyke yet.
EMM
TCD
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(Back in town after vacation!)
There are a lot of variations available in this area. You could ski to avalanche camp, leave the skis and switch to snowshoes, as AOC describes. Another option is to carry the skis and skins up the dike, and then skin down to Lake Arnold. I use the cheap Voile rubber "snakeskins" (never wanted to fool around with glue for the mohair). These skins have very little glide; they basically turn your skis into long skinny snowshoes. On steep descents, you just diagonal stride right down. It's actually pretty weird. (No claw, though, so they don't work well on ice.)
You could also leave the skis at the bottom of the dike, and then snowshoe down via the Lake Colden trail (a little longer trip), and pick the skis up on the way back through the pass.
You can look at the map and come up with additional variations.
EMM, I've never skinned up the Lake Arnold slide. I'm sure it's doable, but it seems like it might be tough at the top, where it's somewhat steeper. You might want to test the grip of your skins on a single diamond trail at the local ski area. Of course, you could always zig zag up the last part.
And, of course, the usual avalanche precautions apply even more to "skinuppers" than to "skidowners", because the former are spending more time in the avalanche potential area.
Boy, we've had a lot of snow! I still want to do one of the Colden trips around the end of the month, if Mother Nature continues to cooperate!
There are a lot of variations available in this area. You could ski to avalanche camp, leave the skis and switch to snowshoes, as AOC describes. Another option is to carry the skis and skins up the dike, and then skin down to Lake Arnold. I use the cheap Voile rubber "snakeskins" (never wanted to fool around with glue for the mohair). These skins have very little glide; they basically turn your skis into long skinny snowshoes. On steep descents, you just diagonal stride right down. It's actually pretty weird. (No claw, though, so they don't work well on ice.)
You could also leave the skis at the bottom of the dike, and then snowshoe down via the Lake Colden trail (a little longer trip), and pick the skis up on the way back through the pass.
You can look at the map and come up with additional variations.
EMM, I've never skinned up the Lake Arnold slide. I'm sure it's doable, but it seems like it might be tough at the top, where it's somewhat steeper. You might want to test the grip of your skins on a single diamond trail at the local ski area. Of course, you could always zig zag up the last part.
And, of course, the usual avalanche precautions apply even more to "skinuppers" than to "skidowners", because the former are spending more time in the avalanche potential area.
Boy, we've had a lot of snow! I still want to do one of the Colden trips around the end of the month, if Mother Nature continues to cooperate!
Are people doing this trip?
This idea of climbing trap dike and then skiing down colden sounds like fun. Any planning going on?
I've put up a pic of the trap dike from early March. I dont believe there has been significant new snowfall since then and temps havent been thaat high so it might be indicative of present conditions...
http://www.astro.upenn.edu/~rahul/trapdike.jpg
This idea of climbing trap dike and then skiing down colden sounds like fun. Any planning going on?
I've put up a pic of the trap dike from early March. I dont believe there has been significant new snowfall since then and temps havent been thaat high so it might be indicative of present conditions...
http://www.astro.upenn.edu/~rahul/trapdike.jpg
TCD
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The route for that trip is probably in pretty good shape now, but I think I'm going to wait one more weekend for the skiing to corn up, and the avy danger to drop a little more. Right now I'm targeting 3/26. Or maybe a weekday next week, if the extended forecast indicates. (This route comes into shape on a similar schedule to the N Face of Gothics.)
I'm probably putting this trip off this year. Need more skills unsless you guys are willing to tolerate someone that falls a lot on the steeps. I do plan on skiing Gothics again this year. My dates are set April 2/3.
I'd like to join some people for this trip. Again, I'm not the best skier on the steeps but I am improving. I skiied Gothics True North on Feb 26 in deep powder and fell about 25 times with a heavy pack. Spring skiing should prove much better.
If people with climbing skills decide to go I'd like to climb the North Face. Maybe un-roped to cut down on weight. If people don't have skills I'd be willing to go the long way up the trail. If no one joins I'd solo the NF.
See my post under Trips: JBL Trip my date of Mar 25/26 has changed.
I'd like to join some people for this trip. Again, I'm not the best skier on the steeps but I am improving. I skiied Gothics True North on Feb 26 in deep powder and fell about 25 times with a heavy pack. Spring skiing should prove much better.
If people with climbing skills decide to go I'd like to climb the North Face. Maybe un-roped to cut down on weight. If people don't have skills I'd be willing to go the long way up the trail. If no one joins I'd solo the NF.
See my post under Trips: JBL Trip my date of Mar 25/26 has changed.
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Colden and True North Gothics
How does the skiing compare? Is True North Easier than Colden to ski?
I too tend to fall a fair bit in deep snow...tend to get caught with unequal resistance on the two legs on turns..find that a more even weight on both skis seems to work better rather than getting most of the weight on the outside.
Flip side is falling on deep snow is actually somewhat fun And I do make it a point not to fall on the ice climbing bits
Here's gothics climbing conditions from neice. Seems we need some snowmelt..
http://neice.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=1&Number=7167&an=0&page=0&gonew=1#UNREAD
I can lead upto 3+/4- on ice, and ski blues comfortably. Double blacks are out.
I could do Apr 3rd if I am not dragging others slow.
How does the skiing compare? Is True North Easier than Colden to ski?
I too tend to fall a fair bit in deep snow...tend to get caught with unequal resistance on the two legs on turns..find that a more even weight on both skis seems to work better rather than getting most of the weight on the outside.
Flip side is falling on deep snow is actually somewhat fun
And I do make it a point not to fall on the ice climbing bits Here's gothics climbing conditions from neice. Seems we need some snowmelt..
http://neice.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=1&Number=7167&an=0&page=0&gonew=1#UNREAD
I can lead upto 3+/4- on ice, and ski blues comfortably. Double blacks are out.
I could do Apr 3rd if I am not dragging others slow.
TCD
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Tig and Tony,
I haven't skied True North, so I can't compare it. Like I said earlier, the Lake Arnold slide is about a "single black" for a ways, then drops back to "blue."
Telemark skiing in crud and powder is pretty tough. I don't know what kind of equipment you each are on. I skied Phelps last weekend; for that one I snowshoed up and hauled my lift served skis (which will bash through anything). For the Trap Dike, I like the trail skiing in and out, so I'll use my old Catamounts. They have a full metal edge, but they're pretty skinny and "unshaped" by today's standards. So I'm sure I'll get beat up a little on the slide. (I need to get some new backcountry skis!)
I try to travel really light for this one. In the usual spring conditions, if you're leading 3, you can comfortably solo anything the dike presents with a long axe and one short tool. If there's enough snow packed in the dike, you won't even need the short tool. So no climbing gear except the axe and the tool makes a really light ski pack.
I haven't skied True North, so I can't compare it. Like I said earlier, the Lake Arnold slide is about a "single black" for a ways, then drops back to "blue."
Telemark skiing in crud and powder is pretty tough. I don't know what kind of equipment you each are on. I skied Phelps last weekend; for that one I snowshoed up and hauled my lift served skis (which will bash through anything). For the Trap Dike, I like the trail skiing in and out, so I'll use my old Catamounts. They have a full metal edge, but they're pretty skinny and "unshaped" by today's standards. So I'm sure I'll get beat up a little on the slide. (I need to get some new backcountry skis!)
I try to travel really light for this one. In the usual spring conditions, if you're leading 3, you can comfortably solo anything the dike presents with a long axe and one short tool. If there's enough snow packed in the dike, you won't even need the short tool. So no climbing gear except the axe and the tool makes a really light ski pack.
True North
I have skied it three times. Once this year as I had said. It is pretty straight foward. A single black atleast. Not that I can ski single black Tig.
It's in right now no matter what the posters say. Conditions are always variable on the North Face. True North should be in excellent condtion.
I lead 3+/4- so I'd opt to just go with crampons and ice tools. The climbing is similer to Chapel Pond Slab. Soloed that this year no problem. North Face Gothics is just longer and more remote, obviously.
I have skied it three times. Once this year as I had said. It is pretty straight foward. A single black atleast. Not that I can ski single black Tig.
It's in right now no matter what the posters say. Conditions are always variable on the North Face. True North should be in excellent condtion.
I lead 3+/4- so I'd opt to just go with crampons and ice tools. The climbing is similer to Chapel Pond Slab. Soloed that this year no problem. North Face Gothics is just longer and more remote, obviously.
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True North
Yeah blacks are at the edge of my comfort zone...
I've soloed the approach gullies at the Narrows multiple times this year so I'm not worried about the ice climbing part....
I'd be up for this trip if you'll have me on it...
Yeah blacks are at the edge of my comfort zone...
I've soloed the approach gullies at the Narrows multiple times this year so I'm not worried about the ice climbing part....
I'd be up for this trip if you'll have me on it...
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