Unprepared Hikers On Washington-Union Leader Article

[KayakDan]

And Mt Monadnock,as tame as it may seem,also gets a steady stream of hiking "disasters". I've seen a few,and know personally of a couple who were expected to become "recovery" instead of rescue.
Being unprepared comes in all sizes.

 

[dug]

Yeah, I heard 300 a weekend quoted on WMUR this morning but was skeptical

Thank you. As many will vouch, I'm pretty darn close to certifiable but didn't think I was there yet.......

 

[DougPaul]

There is a way to solve this problem. We just haven't found it yet.

We have a variety of safety equipment, regulations, and education programs for drivers, yet we still lose about 50K lives (in the US) every year due to driving accidents.

Doug

 

[dr_wu002]

There is a way to solve this problem. We just haven't found it yet.

Sure, have little kiosks at the trailheads that sell hikers 50 or 100 lb weights for $3 each weight (fully refundable if you return them in good condition). Advertise them as "hiking momentum adjusters" or something.

That'll eliminate about 3/4 the rescues or at least localize them to areas close to the trailhead.

-Dr. Wu

 

[Jay H]

Why not a long rubber band, as they get further away from the trailhead, the tension gets higher. Any slips and falls, will result in the wearer being catapulted back to the trailhead and safety.

Jay

 

[TEO]

What the heck is wrong with carrying a toy poodle on a hike?! Heck, they're barely larger than a nalgene and we wouldn't think of criticizing someone for carrying a couple of nalgenes (unless you fell for the BpA hysteria). (I know of one fellow who skis with his miniature pinscher, none of it lift-served.)

 

[Maddy]

We have a variety of safety equipment, regulations, and education programs for drivers, yet we still lose about 50K lives (in the US) every year due to driving accidents.

Doug

I guess, as usual, I don't get it.
Does this mean we should just give up trying to improve things? Maybe.
Perhaps we should not try to improve the way we educate our kids, drivers ,skiers, hikers , etc. etc. etc.
We can continue to do what we have been doing right along . Accept the status quo. Hopefully we are all "sane" and "not expecting a different result."

 

[cbcbd]

I once invited a (non-experienced hiker) friend along on a summer Lafayette--Falling Waters loop hike and started listing the required gear... Her response was "why be so negative?".

Doug

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

I took a (non-experienced hiker) friend on an overnight Franconia ridge loop hike... he insisted on wearing his Converse after I suggested otherwise. He regretted it after the weekend when his feet were toast from all the rocks.

 

[DrewKnight]

What the heck is wrong with carrying a toy poodle on a hike?!

I think that IS preparedness. Even the Shackleton expedition viewed their beloved dogs as rations once their usefulness as transportation ran out. Toy poodles are just the single-meal size.

MikeF64 and I were discussing this this morning -- he offered the very plausible theory that just knowing that there is a bail-out option from the top of Washington makes it more of a target for the ill-prepared. I am not so sure that people think that far ahead. It's also worrisome to consider that they MIGHT be planning for a bail-out, but not make it that far.

Tuckerman Ravine Trail, where men are hungry and toy poodles are nervous.

 

[David Metsky]

I guess, as usual, I don't get it.
Does this mean we should just give up trying to improve things? Maybe.
Perhaps we should not try to improve the way we educate our kids, drivers ,skiers, hikers , etc. etc. etc.
We can continue to do what we have been doing right along . Accept the status quo. Hopefully we are all "sane" and "not expecting a different result."

You have to be careful to not let the "improvement" be worse then the problem. We could eliminate the problem completely by having rangers determine when it is safe, and mandatory state-licensed guides for every hike. (Note: I'm not implying that you are advocating anything like this.) That would remove 99.9% of the major injuries and deaths, but at the cost of destroying the enjoyment for many/most of us.

Education is great. Some more of it is a great idea, but you can go overboard. You could require people to read and sign a waiver at all trailheads before being allowed to hike, require a certain level of safety gear and experience, fines for hiking without required equipment. All of these could be supported under the banner of educating the masses.

The bottom line, IMO, is that hiking in the woods caries with it some inherent risk. The requirement that you are responsible for your own safety leads directly to part of my enjoyment. You can present people with information and they will still choose to do what they want; that's fine, people are responsible for their own actions. In a state like NH which prides itself on a Live Free or Die attitude trying to force education may be met with resistance by thoughtful and well-educated people.

It's important not to accept the status quo just because we always have. But it's also important not to dismiss human nature and think that trailhead kiosks or PSAs will prevent unprepared people from doing unwise things.

 

[carole]

It is true that most of the unprepared hikers I see are young "studs" (students) who think they can do anything.

Sadly, most of the unprepared hikers I see are adults 'who didn't get the memo'.

http://www.wmur.com/news/17038919/detail.html

 

[DougPaul]

I guess, as usual, I don't get it.
Does this mean we should just give up trying to improve things? Maybe.

No. It just means that we will never reduce the number of incompetent hikers to zero (ie there is no reasonable "solution").

Reasonable efforts (eg education) to reduce the number of problems can be appropriate, draconian measures in a misguided attempt to reduce the number of problems to zero are not.

As long as we allow beginner hikers on the trail, some of them will get into trouble. (We were all beginners once upon a time too.)

Hiking at all levels carries risk. And, IMO, should.

Doug

 

[Maddy]

Education is great. Some more of it is a great idea, but you can go overboard.

No. It just means that we will never reduce the number incompetent hikers to zero.

Reasonable efforts (eg education) to reduce the number of problems can be appropriate, draconian measures in a misguided attempt to reduce the number of problems to zero are not.



Hiking at all levels carries risk. And, IMO, should.

Doug

You are absolutely right. I would not expect to reduce the number of "incompetent"/inexperienced hikers to zero.
And hiking...life...carries risk, and well it should. IT would be so boring without risk. We could not have a great discussions on VFTT about how we might help to reduce risk.
I had in mind "reasonable efforts" to help educate the inexperienced hiker.
In the past, I have submitted some ideas to one of the SAR people on these boards and I also wrote to Lt. Borgadus many months ago. However little I had to offer, or how bogus it might be, I wanted to contribute something in an effort to possibly help improve the situation. It was a shot in the dark!
I wonder if doing a hiker survey, maybe through the AMC, might be helpful. Some folks might come up with some really great ideas on how to better educate the newbies.
200+people needing help, and it's not even Aug 1, seems like a lot to me. Does anyone know how this compares to previous years? Maybe it's an improvement.

 

[Breeze]

WMUR discussion was maybe over the top, possibly exacerbated by the hordes that were on MW last weekend for Seek the Peak. There were 320 registered for STP, in addition to the usual 150-175 casuals for a Saturday in July.

Mike Pelchat's comments to the MWO BOD were previously published in the Berlin Daily Sun ( sorry no link to that), and that previous article had firmer numbers than the Union Leader.

Drew Knight said

"MikeF64 and I were discussing this this morning -- he offered the very plausible theory that just knowing that there is a bail-out option from the top of Washington makes it more of a target for the ill-prepared. I am not so sure that people think that far ahead. It's also worrisome to consider that they MIGHT be planning for a bail-out, but not make it that far."

and I totally agree.. folks are approaching MW with the ASSUMPTION that the Auto Road and the Cog are a guaranteed bail option no matter what happens. That is an attitude that trivializes summiting MW to a "walk in the park" for so many people.

I've never hidden my employment at the MWAR from this forum, some of you know who I am by name and face, and for those who don't know, yet, I'm the female blue-rinse generation at the Toll House who does have to deliver bad news to folks that the road is closed to traffic and they CANNOT go up to fetch their hikers. It is not fun, it happens more often than anyone thinks ( 4 days out of the last 10) and it is because of that dreaded Ass U Me..... folks think there is ALWAYS a bail option with four wheels and an enclosed cab with heater or AC for the downbound leg.

On Sunday 7/20 we had a bluebird morning for a Practice Ride ( for the Bike Hillclimb 8/16). At 3:00 Pm we closed the road to upbound traffic due to torrential rain, zero visibility, and frequent lightning strikes.


On that day there were 2 Summit Stage vans with 10 seats, each, available for fare, and each van made 5 trips at full capacity. That is 100 downbound hikers. Road Patrol at closing brought down another 10, and the State Parks personnel loaded their end of day downbound vehicles with another 10 who needed off, now. Thats is 120 downbound BAILS for one day, and does not count the dozen or more AT thruhikers that were granted special and uncustomary overnight privileges in the pack room. Nor does it count the number of hikers who had rides waiting for them AND HAD DOWNBOUND PASSAGE.

Monday 7/21 was more of the same, bluebird AM and a quick close when the storms hit mid afternoon.


Breeze

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Not to mention that Mt. Washington being the tallest of the lot gets the folks, particularly non-hikers, who only want to do the biggest, tallest, baddest, or only one peak. ("Bragging Rights".) For that reason alone, perhaps the signage should be even more severe with a note that you cannot rely on a car to get you down. Maybe volunteer / education effort could concentrate in this area even....

FWIW, I didn't attempt Big George until #25 on the 4K list.

I also am in favor of fewer regulations, as a general rule, and enjoy living in the Live Free Or Die state. Don't interfere with Darwin

Tim

 

[dr_wu002]

Not to mention that Mt. Washington being the tallest of the lot gets the folks, particularly non-hikers, who only want to do the biggest, tallest, baddest, or only one peak.

Is Mt. Washington the high point?

-Dr. Wu

 

[Breeze]

Yes. Mt Washington is a High Point.

High Pointers want the quickest and easiest access to their tags.


Breeze

 

[DougPaul]

Not to mention that Mt. Washington being the tallest of the lot gets the folks, particularly non-hikers, who only want to do the biggest, tallest, baddest, or only one peak.

Back in my college outing club days, we had some jerk come in and start talking about "the mountain". I knew what he meant, of course, but I gave him static for it. MW is so over-promoted that many think of little else. And the road and RR do give an often false sense of security.

If someone does a poll, he is likely to find that MW was the first White Mountain summit for an inordinate number of us. (It was mine...)

Doug

 

[Caveman77]

Before I ever stepped foot in New Hampshire, I had heard plenty about the dangers of Mt Washington. A report on NPR, Bill Bryson's Walk in the Woods, and almost any web page turned up by googling "hike mount washington" carried clear warnings.

So even after moving here, I didn't attempt Washington until I had followed this progression: low 48er (Passaconaway), above treeline (the Moats), a slide (Flume), a 5000er (Lafayette), hike intentionally during bad weather (snowing in the Osceolas), and the northern Presidentials. Only after successfully completing those walks, did I walk up Washington (#35 of 48).

Also, around Memorial Day this year, many radio stations gaving weather reports took extra time to specifically warn hikers about the adverse conditions and deep snow at higher elevation.

There is no lack of information and warnings, just a lack of personal responsibility.

I just wonder if we feel Schadenfreude at seeing those unprepared arroganti taught a thing or two by Washington. Or are we just smugly pushing a toypoodlephobic agenda?

 

[TEO]

While I don't have the data to back it up, I think that people have come to rely on technology, cellphones especially, but perhaps at times gizmos like GPSs, to bail them out instead of their wit, grit, and ingenuity.

Also, regarding those who wish to see more people charged for SAR, keep in mind that ignorance is not the same as negligence. Everyone of us is guilty of doing ignorant things in the course of our adventures, most of us learn from them.