Volunteer Pemi Bridge Work Site Clean Up Planning Thread

[DiamondRidge]

I'd be in for either weekend, though the second one is better for me.

 

[una_dogger]

I think we are going to shoot for Saturday July 16 -- the next few weekends beyond that I have work ad other conmittments

 

[DiamondRidge]

I think we are going to shoot for Saturday July 16 -- the next few weekends beyond that I have work ad other conmittments

Its on my calendar

 

[una_dogger]

Great, thank you ;-)

 

[Lefty E]

Kind of too bad the debris can't be left off the trail, of course, outside of 200 feet from the trail, for future generations to check out..something like seeing old logging camp debris on certain trails or other related stuff left over from "the history of hiking trails in NH..." etc..course I know it's "Wilderness" and it can't be compared to the old logging truck frames still on the side of the Old Summer Club Trail to Victor Head or the Mahoosuc Trail from the Gorham Trestle..when I see them I feel like I'm getting close to home..hope all goes well for the project!

 

[una_dogger]

Kind of too bad the debris can't be left off the trail, of course, outside of 200 feet from the trail, for future generations to check out..something like seeing old logging camp debris on certain trails or other related stuff left over from "the history of hiking trails in NH..." etc..course I know it's "Wilderness" and it can't be compared to the old logging truck frames still on the side of the Old Summer Club Trail to Victor Head or the Mahoosuc Trail from the Gorham Trestle..when I see them I feel like I'm getting close to home..hope all goes well for the project!

I know! I get a certain sense of nostalgia when I come upon an old metal bucket and shovel heads at old logging sites....I was soooo disappointed when I didn't find an old Still at Stillwater Jct

Huge thanks to everyone who is volunteering time and/or advice, getting lots of nice PMs helps --- I've never organized any kind of anything (me and MY big mouth) so this is all new -- thanks for your patience!

I am on vacation next week and guess what? I hope to have that volunteer agreement, scope of project, and Job Hazard Analysis all ready to go by the time I come back.

Good thing I am vacationing in Twin Mountain....

Lets plan on Saturday July 16.

VfTT is the BEST!

 

[una_dogger]

Howdy there

Can everyone who has expressed interest please pm me with your full name? I am filling out a volunteer form with the USFS -- there will be coverage for any injuries.

 

[una_dogger]

Hello All!

This is going to be a cut and carry day. I hope that doesn't scare you all away!

We will work on cutting the timbers by handsaw to manageable sized chunks.

Then we will carry a load of chunks out.

The USFS is loaning us about six big field packs -- the timbers have creosote on them, so bring a pair of work gloves you don't mind tossing afterward and be prepared to get dirty.

Its not likely that we will be able to remove them all, but if we can get them all sawed up -- that will enable me to make future trips in for carry outs.

I REALLY appreciate all the help!

We have 8 people officially signed up -- that leaves 2 open spots for

Saturday, July 16. Lets meet at Lincoln Woods at 9am.

<officially means I have your full name! If I don't and you want to join, please pm me...thanks>

If anyone has handsaws they would like to bring, that would also be helpful. I have an 18" curved Fiskars pruning saw that I use for blowdowns. Its small but extremely efficient. We used a similar saw to go through a ~22 inch diameter blowdown on the Edmands Path ...

There is also a volunteer who thinks they may have a crosscut saw to add to the effort.

Let's start talking tools, People!

Thank you !

Sabrina

 

[Billy]

Sabrina

I'm 50-50 regarding my availability for that day.

A few questions:

1) Can I just show up and help, without any advanced notice? I don't want to say I'll be there unless I'm sure I can be there. But if circumstances swing my way and I'm free, I want to go. Is that ok?

2) I know the 10 person rule for hiking/camping, etc. But is it ok to have your organized group of 10 (hopefully you'll get 10), and then have various other people "accidentally" show up and help on their way to Thoreau or Stillwater?

Well, I guess 1 and 2 are kinda almost the same question, but you get the point.

I'm guessing there are others out there who, like me, aren't sure we can make it that day...but who want to show up and help if the day opens up. I would hate to get turned away because I didn't sign a piece of paper.

Oh, one more question. Carrying a bridge out of the woods is thirsty work. Are there any water sources nearby?

 

[Tim Seaver]

Let's start talking tools, People!

I would imagine a cant hook ( or better yet, two of them) would be useful for both maneuvering the ties about, and elevating them off the ground for easier cutting.

/ex-logger

 

[una_dogger]

I would imagine a cant hook ( or better yet, two of them) would be useful for both maneuvering the ties about, and elevating them off the ground for easier cutting.

/ex-logger

That sure beats a big rock and stick! Thanks! I'll see if any one in the Forest Service has one. GREAT suggestion!

Billy - hopefully this will answer your questions;
~Wilderness Rules: max group size ten
~need names for adopter work form : there can be more than ten names on this list (because the work may be carried out on more than one day and one blanket form will cover it)
~if anyone signs up and can't make it, that's ok - life happens...but I hope that closer to the date when this is more organized, we will have a call list.
Hope this helps!

 

[Jason Berard]

When you get an idea of the maximum diameter of the timbers to be sawed, let us know. I'll see if I can bring a large bow saw I have. It is big enough that it can be used by two people and should do the trick.

 

[Dave Bear]

Billy's point about horse or mule is a good one. A friend of mine was contacted about doing this with his team in the winter and it was not going to work out for him to do what they wanted safely with the team. This makes me wonder what they did in the meantime and what is left. As others stated the planning would be easier with pictures of what remains to be undertaken. I do have a decent peavey and also a double one that has tongs so two people can carry a log or in this case a railrod tie if it needs to be dragged. As Stevo mentioned the bulk of this could be done more efficiently in the winter if it were staged now. Say cut and stack where it is accessible to sled out on the snow. It is also very possible if it were moved to the side of the river where the horses could get to it that it could still be done in the winter with the teams and bobsleds. I grew up first logging with horses and later with equipment. Now family and friends have gone back to horses and do what is called biological logging because it is more enviromentally friendly and a fun activity to watch and participate in. Sabrina any chance of as is pictures of the site. I am all for participation if I can work it out but also like to think that dividends are paid by planning! Kudos to you for chairing this effort!

Here is an example of working with the horses from back in January and evenduring biological logging most loggers still use modern saws:
http://family.webshots.com/slideshow/580332823VovYCs

I would bet many people would like the oppurtunity to see horses back at work out in the Pemi!

 

[Raven]

Consider adding dust masks to the equipment list. The particles released from cutting this stuff up may have all sorts of nasty additives one may not want to inhale.

 

[Billy]

When you get an idea of the maximum diameter of the timbers to be sawed, let us know. I'll see if I can bring a large bow saw I have. It is big enough that it can be used by two people and should do the trick.

Jason,

I believe these were the biggest ones I saw

Here's almost the same photo but with my Cubs hat on top to show the scale

I'd guess they're about 10x10 inches, so the "diameter" (diagonal) is about 14 inches.

 

[Jason Berard]

Thanks, Billy! The hat really helps for scale.

 

[Dave Bear]

If they are ten by ten timbers every three feet is roughly a 70lb pack load. Looks likes they separated the timber layers with cross pieces and its deceiving at the angle to see if the other tarps cover a separate skid or its all one running skid. Looks easy to saw up the way it is prepped but it also looks like at least three serious horse team hauls in the winter let alone backpacking out with hikers. Anyway to get a dialog going with them about finishing the prep and hauling on bobsleds with horses in the early winter Sabrina? I know of at least two teams that may be interested depending on the conditions and the reception of the idea. Would be wise to know ahead for cutting to the best length for stacking sideways on the bobsled. This would not be dragging the timbers out whole on the trail and creating damage or erosion. These teamsters are a great bunch and were featured on Chronicle earlier this year!

 

[Hillwalker]

Horse hockey

If they are ten by ten timbers every three feet is roughly a 70lb pack load. Looks likes they separated the timber layers with cross pieces and its deceiving at the angle to see if the other tarps cover a separate skid or its all one running skid. Looks easy to saw up the way it is prepped but it also looks like at least three serious horse team hauls in the winter let alone backpacking out with hikers. Anyway to get a dialog going with them about finishing the prep and hauling on bobsleds with horses in the early winter Sabrina? I know of at least two teams that may be interested depending on the conditions and the reception of the idea. Would be wise to know ahead for cutting to the best length for stacking sideways on the bobsled. This would not be dragging the timbers out whole on the trail and creating damage or erosion. These teamsters are a great bunch and were featured on Chronicle earlier this year!

On the original proposal/plan they mentioned horses, but also were insistant that the horses should be given a diet which would not result in the introduction of unwanted plant species through the horse or mule "exhaust". Not sure how that would be accomplished. Maybe they could use the horse "diapers" used in some metropolitan areas where horses are used for taxis and other tourist stuff.

Years ago (80s) the USFS used a huge mule to carry the composting box up to the Baldface shelter. Biggest mule I ever saw. I don't think that the FS owned the mule, but who knows. It wasn't too many years before that the AMC still used their "Donks" to haul stuff to the huts.

 

[una_dogger]

Hi Dave
I can certainly find out what the stipulations are regarding horse teams. (and PS somehow I knew this idea would strike your fancy!)

More Updates:

We can have more than ten volunteers, so long that we stagger ourselves in teams.

Not all of the timbers are ten by ten, some are smaller.

There are more than timbers to saw and carry, there are also buckets of bolts, etc.

There's really something for everyone here, so anyone else interested, please shoot me a pm with your full name.

 

[Dave Bear]

If the horses were used and and there was enough snow cover the beams could possibly be brought out full length to be reused for something else. Has there ever been any interest by anyone to reconstruct the bridge on private property as an attraction or eccentric memorabilia? Even if it was cut down to shorter lengths it may have some recycle value.

The horse exhaust can be scooped up and hauled out with the load easily in the winter. Who the hell dreams this stuff up? Do they have a list of plants they are concerned about? Do they think the Pemi doesn't already have its share of NH horse exhaust? The feed these horses get is straight off local fields and in many cases they were used to mow and rake it as well.

When I was very young I helped log up by Indian Rock in the Pemi with equipment. Since I was young I spent a good part of the time fishing instead of working. This would give me a chance to make up my for loafing some forty years later!