Washington & snowshoes this Saturday?

[miehoff]

Snowshoes

Actually, if you broke trail after a big storm (like the one we just had), sections of Lions Head would be much better with snowshoes. I was up there on Saturday, and the snow was very deep. Bring snowshoes if you think you might encounter those kinds of conditions (fresh, deep snow), otherwise, bring crampons and an ice axe, or a good head on your shoulders on how to get down a very steep trail. I climbed past a line or 20 or so hikers waiting to decend the steep sections because several folks (with ropes, oddly enough) only had snowshoes and they were desperately trying to get down. It was kind of silly to pass all of these grumpy, tired hikers on my way up. I was trying to make jokes, but nobody was laughing. Ropes and no crampons? Huh?

 

[MadRiver]

Logic won over testosterone and I passed on hiking Washington on Saturday. I didn’t see any reason to do the drive if hitting the summit was out of the question. At least for me, 20 to 30 below with sustained winds of 30 to 40 mph are not the conditions I would consider favorable. By the way Meihoff, did you summit on Saturday? Crampons and an ice axe are always witth me in the winter. I might not use the ice axe all that much, but I do use crampons on ever hike.

 

[DougPaul]

The Lion Head winter route is open. It avoids the slide paths that are on the summer route.

There was an avalanche on Lions Head that crossed the road (Tuckerman trail) below around 1969(?). (Perhaps on older-timer remembers the date and details.) The winter trail followed the scar for a number of years. (My first winter ascent of MW was via this route (1974).)

The route is moved as needed to mimize the risk.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

You never need snoeshoes for lions head, end of story.

I would submit that they are rarely carried but occasionally needed.

Doug

 

[miehoff]

No, I didn't summit. I got to Lions Head and hung out for a while and went back down. I was just going to go to Hermil lake, cook lunch and go back, but I passed a guy who told me that Lions Head winter route was super steep, so I couldn't pass it up. I did have crampons and I used them the whole way on Lions Head.

I broke my snowshoes last year and honestly, I never used them, so I didn't buy new ones. I almost always use crampons, just for general traction. Going up Tuckermans this weekend was just a way to be sure that the trail would be packed for my hike. If I had snowshoes, I would have done something more obscure.

 

[MadRiver]

******Thanks.

 

[MadRiver]

I do not mean to quibble, but my friend who did hike Lion Head on Saturday DID mention that the lead group had to break trail. He said that the snow was close to waist deep from all the snow being blown of the summit. Now he could be lying, for what reason I cannot fathom, so I think I will take them next time just to be safe.

 

[miehoff]

Yea, sure the snow was probably that deep in the morning, but by the time that I got there (1pm or so) it was nice and packed. But like I said, I would have done something that required snowshoes if I hadn't broken them, but seeing the parking lot at the trailhead, I figured there might be packed trails for me to consider. I honestly wanted to do Boot Spur and hike down the Boot Spur Link to Hermit lake (my favorite all time loop), but I noticed that it wasn't packed, so I kept going. When I got to Lions Head, I said, "Fuggin A, its packed!"

So your friend might not have been lying (who knows, I could be lying). I truthfully think that snowshoes are a waste of weigh most of the time in the Whites, especially if you know the recent weather trends and how popular the trail tends to be. I can only think of a few times when I really needed them and I have been doing winter hikes obsessively up there for almost a decade.

Snowshoes are overused and crampons aren't used enough.

 

[MadRiver]

I cannot disagree with the underlying theme of your post, for I too carry my shoes more than I use them. As far as crampons, I have used them on every hike thus far this winter. My only point of the post is, like the lead hikers, I too am an early more hiker and would probably encounter an unbroken trail due to wind, new snow, etc, more so than if I were a later hiker. Just to clarify, my post wasn’t aimed at you, but others who seem to believe that snowshoes have never ever, or will never be needed on Lion Head until the end of time. I believe my friend’s experience, though isolated, shows that never say never.

 

[miehoff]

No problem...I am enjoying the conversation.

I am a late day hiker. I almost always come down at night. I carry two headlamps and extra batteries every time I go. I like having the summit to myself, and when I stay close to the Moat Mt Brewery, I have trouble getting up early the next morning. I have have run into to numerous hikers while coming down in the dark, and they were on their way up! One time I met a guy as I was coming down from Camel's Hump. It was pitch dark, mid January and cold as hell with several feet of snow on the ground. We talked for a while, and he pulled out a Nalgene and offered me some local brew. Now that is mountaineering!

As I say, do whatever you want to do, just make sure you aren't ruining someones else's day.

 

[sierra]

I would submit that they are rarely carried but occasionally needed.

Doug

I will conceed your point and rephrase my answer as such, "I would never carry snowshoes on the Lions head route". That being said, I always wait for certain routes to be "broken" before I climb them, Lions Head being one of them. I would also say I could narrow down the timetable for many routes to be broken out for me very efficiently, cheating? nah just a old trick I learned years ago.

 

[Grayjay]

powder

I climbed Lafayette on Monday, and though the trail had been packed over the weekend, a lot of new powder made the Greenleaf Trail between the hut and timberline a real chore. I used small MRS snowshoes with crampons.
That drifting is what also occurred on Lion Head. It is pretty unusual, and usually once it is packed, remains so.
The new winter Lion Head Trail is avalanche safe, if anywhere is. It is far from where Albert Dow was killed.

 

[miehoff]

Sierra, I am confused...

Both of us have been involved in threads that are pretty much discussing the same topic: Snowshoes and the need for them. This is your post on the other thread (The Trail is Now Packed):

This is a timely thread for me. Ive never been a fan of telling people how to hike, also Ive always found the law in NY disturbing even though I dont hike there. That being said, I hiked Mt. Clinton on Sat. me and about 8 people before me packed it out to the summit with snowshoes. I was looking foward to a beautifull running descent, when much to my dismay, at least 5 people had "barebooted" the nice track that had been cut. This did make the trail quite harder to descend, one guy I talked to even had snowshoes strapped to his pack. Im proboly still not ready to regulate snowshoes in the Whites as NY does, but man, I think its a shame that such a great trail gets "cut up" so fast.
Just for the record, I took of my shoes near the bottom to test the trail and anyone barebooting had a much harder time ascended then with snowshoes, I guess in closing, I would ask, why bareboot in deep fresh snow? its way harder then snowshoeing, that being said if the reason someone gave was not being able to afford snowshoes, that I could understand.

So why would you say this:

"I would never carry snowshoes on the Lions head route". That being said, I always wait for certain routes to be "broken" before I climb them, Lions Head being one of them.

Not trying to be a jerk, but we have been going back and forth about this, and you seem to contradict yourself...or am I reading your post(s) incorrectly?

 

[sierra]

Thats a fair question. IMO the Lions head route only gets deep low, then as you enter the steep section (fairly quick I might ad) your generally on steep terrain that I wouldnt snowshoe, I use crampons and an axe, that takes you to treeline where conditions quickly become hardpacked mitigating snowshoes imo. I think anyone intimate with the route On Clinton and Lions head can see the difference. I will add, I have well over a hundred ascents of Washington many in the winter and I have never used snowshoes personally.

 

[miehoff]

Yea, that does makes a lot of sense. Lions Head does change to an almost technical situation, or a "snow climb" (hell, folks had ropes set up last weekend). There were snowshoes stashed all along the trail. But to restate my point, very few people had crampons, and I found that to be a bit dangerous.

I do love that trail, and I intend on going back very soon.

 

[sierra]

You know this is a good thread and reminded me of something Ive always believed. Its not enough to know all the disaplines of winter travel in the hills, but when to use each one and knowing the difference. That has always fasinated me about winter climbing, the same route on different days can be a completetly different climb and warrant completely different skills and or gear use.

 

[miehoff]

Absolutely...
It is all about being resourceful.