Water sample collected from Carrigain well

[skiguy]

In case anyone would like some background on this little experiment, see this thread: http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=18225&highlight=carrigain

It is interesting to note the tone of the opinions in this thread compared to the other thread. (FYI: Last time the over-riding consensus was that drinking from that well is very ill-advised, no pun intended. Let's see where this thread goes!)

Now albee if you had just taken that A-10 and dropped DUKIES in the Carrigan Well like --M. had suggested a few weeks ago instead of that 13 mile run you took we would'nt be having this discussion !

 

[Snowflea]

I agree with Chomp & Timmus.

However, I would not drink the water in that well no matter what Dr. D's results. It looks too gross. And I've drank plenty of untreated water.

I also would not drink water from Source X based on something I read on the internet. IMHO, 'Darwinism at work' is people usin' their noggins, or not. That includes making the choice to drink untreated water from a source or not.

 

[Gris]

I agree with Chomp & Timmus.

Of course, I agree w/ Chomp - but that is so obvious it doesn't even need to be stated. Timmus, OTOH, I do NOT agree with her Avatar - YIKES! - oh, please remove it. It makes me squeemish every time I look at, truly...

 

[Rik]

Of course, I agree w/ Chomp - but that is so obvious it doesn't even need to be stated. Timmus, OTOH, I do NOT agree with her Avatar - YIKES! - oh, please remove it. It makes me squeemish every time I look at, truly...

No the avatar needs to stay. It shows people what can happen just by dangling ones feet in said well. Personally I won't drink any water where Timmus has soaked her feet.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

No the avatar needs to stay. It shows people what can happen just by dangling ones feet in said well. Personally I won't drink any water where Timmus has soaked her feet.

Wasn't it just last month we were all worshiping her dress and high heels?

Tim

 

[Frodo]

I met a woman FS ranger about a month ago while hiking Chocorua, and after lengthy discussions about everything from illegal trail maintenance, to urinating at trail heads, to VFTT (yes they follow this site), we hit upon the Carrigain well.

She told me that they have never even tested the water. They put up the sign because they were not sure if it was safe or not. Based on many of the reports about dead animals and people using it for a bathroom (many of which may or may not be true), one can not blame them for taking the safe route without any actual test results.

 

[--M.]

Now albee if you had just taken that A-10 and dropped DUKIES in the Carrigan Well like --M. had suggested a few weeks ago instead of that 13 mile run you took we would'nt be having this discussion !

Always nice to get good press.

What a bunch of yentas! I think it's an open invitation to illness to drink from there, but I couldn't possibly care less if someone else makes that choice.

I persist in thinking this is an excellent experiment in many ways, including watching what happens on a discussion board when a proposal is raised. I guess it gets discussed!

Keep those fun times comin'!

By the way, I believe I called them "dookies;" aren't "Dukies" people who root for NC college sports teams?

 

[NH_Mtn_Hiker]

If you drink from that well, I will not be bringing you any coffee!

 

[skiguy]

By the way, I believe I called them "dookies;" aren't "Dukies" people who root for NC college sports teams?

I stand corrected. You meant This not This

From the last thread on this.

IMO if hiking the Signal Ridge Trail ,Desolation Trail, and Carrigan Notch Trail in what ever combination there is plenty of water down low to tank up on that is in much better potential shape than the WELL in discussion. With a bit of research and anticipation it is quite easy to rule out the WELL as a non-entity. I do see if you were in that area and off on some mad bushwack that you may not have the same opportunities to tank up; but I would rather be safe than sorry.

Again a little planning...No big Deal!

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

Just back from geology meeting in Denver, and no lab results yet. But, whenever I get the results, they will not include giardia, but only coliform bacteria, and later perhaps heavy metals. The coliform results will only be qualitative, but I will at least be able to compare with other water samples that we run, such as from the Charles River, local ponds and streams in the Boston area, etc. In Thornton, NH, I share a community well, which the state requires us to test at an EPA-certified lab every quarter; its seems that we fail the coliform bacteria test about one out of four quarters per year, to which we respond by cranking up the level of chlorine disinfectant.

During the geology meeting, I participated in a day-long bicycle field trip along Boulder Creek, which focused on flood hazards as well as wastewater contamination. Some extensive laboratory testing of water samples from the creek in 2000 turned up high concentrations of gadolinium, which is a rare earth element (REE) that is not naturally enriched relative to other REEs, but also has industrial sources, namely gadopentetic acid, used as a contrasting agent in MRIs. Also found were endocrine disrupting compounds (EDCs), such as steroid hormones and alkylphenolethoxylate nonionic surfactant degradation products, as well as heavy loadings of other pharmaceutical compounds, which has caused a fish species to change sex from male to female (50:50 ratio before to 80:20 female later). With sufficient funding $$, laboratory tests are now so sensitive that water analyses can determine the numbers of people in a watershed taking birth control pills or the diet of racoons living in drain pipes.

So, no, I would not drink untreated water from Boulder Creek either. :>)

 

[albee]

Well that explains a lot. My running buddies and I used to soak our aching legs in Boulder Creek 4 or 5 times per week when I lived out there in the summer of 2000 and 2001. All this time I thought it was "shrinkage" since the water was so cold! I always wondered what they were doing up there in Nederland and Ward!!

Thank you for raising awareness of this topic, Thom. Would you say that it is highly unlikely that someone could get Giardia from that type of source (a well)? If you didn't have access to the results of a water sample, what would you think about that well water - would you treat it or not, or would you choose to get water elsewhere? Also, knowing what you know, what level of treatment do you personally practice when procuring drinking water in the backcountry? I'm just curious. Thanks in advance!

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

Well that explains a lot. My running buddies and I used to soak our aching legs in Boulder Creek 4 or 5 times per week when I lived out there in the summer of 2000 and 2001. All this time I thought it was "shrinkage" since the water was so cold! I always wondered what they were doing up there in Nederland and Ward!!

Thank you for raising awareness of this topic, Thom. Would you say that it is highly unlikely that someone could get Giardia from that type of source (a well)? If you didn't have access to the results of a water sample, what would you think about that well water - would you treat it or not, or would you choose to get water elsewhere? Also, knowing what you know, what level of treatment do you personally practice when procuring drinking water in the backcountry? I'm just curious. Thanks in advance!

The gadolinium does not come from Ward and Nederland, based on upstream samples, but from the hospital in Boulder. I think that most of the other contaminants are also introduced in Boulder, as the sampling showed that they have much greater loadings below the sewage treatment plant (i.e., sewage treatment plants do not remove everything). Most of Ward and Nederland use private septic systems, so their waste does not reach Boulder Creek (not yet, anyway).

After nearly succumbing to dysentery in Ladakh in 1980 (could have been the water, or could have been tainted yak curd, which we reluctantly ate when offered by our gracious hosts), I have been very careful about what I drink and eat (including in restaurants!). I would never consider drinking from the Carrigain well, whether it is topping over as it was a couple weeks ago or when the water table is lower in drier seasons, without double treatment (two out of three, if possible: boiling, filtering, and/or using chemicals, such as iodine, which is what the solo Carrigain summit camper was doing when I visited most recently). But, that's just me, and I have friends who drink from White Mountain streams that enter from the sides of trails all the time, without apparent negative consequences. I think that people's gastro-intestinal systems vary incredibly in their ability to process various liquids and solids. But, all it takes is one giardia cyst from one infected rodent to make a person very sick (yes, antibiotics usually cures within a week to 10 days, but I just do not think that the distress is worth it). So, when I am solo hiking, I carry all the treated water that I think will be needed for a hike. But, if I am hiking with one or more others on a long traverse with lots of water sources en route, such as the Mahoosucs, I will carry a water filter to spread out the extra weight (so, just one of the three treatments). I carry iodine for emergencies, but do not like to use it routinely because it kills all the good flora along with the bad in your gut. High on Aconcagua, I was really conflicted, as the temperature of our boiling water was probably not sufficient to kill everything, and filters do not remove viruses, given their small size. But, we did not use our iodine, and got away with it. I do not carry a stove on day hikes because of the extra weight. I know, some day I will not be prepared for an emergency when a stove could save my life, but I do carry an emergency fire starter in cotton balls soaked in vaseline; hey, Mats could use these on his feet! :>)

 

[Tom Rankin]

With sufficient funding $$, laboratory tests are now so sensitive that water analyses can determine the numbers of people in a watershed taking birth control pills or the diet of racoons living in drain pipes.

Or, the amount of cocaine!

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

Or, the amount of cocaine!

Maybe we should begin testing rivers in the Whites and Daks?

 

[Lawn Sale]

Any results yet?

I picked up a Steripen Adventurer this spring and am curious as to how it will perform this winter. I usually bring the water I'll need for the day, but when spending the night I dose it up with ClO2 and let it steep. The UV should work fine over the winter, I'll just have to keep the batteries warm.

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

No coliform bacteria plate test results yet....

....but, I am hoping that some results will be available by the end of the semester, as there is a possibility that I can slip in the Carrigain well water sample along with some other student semester projects.

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

First results in....

Major anions and cations all low, well within EPA limits (sodium especially low). Hope to have coliform bacteria results by next week.

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

Coliform plates were run in triplicate and came back clean as a whistle. But, please remember my comments above that the well was nearly topping over when I sampled this fall, so my water sample was most likely recent rainwater.

I will sample the well again next summer when the water level is lower, as I still suspect that the coliform bacteria levels might be significant under those conditions.

But, remember, do not eat yellow snow this winter!

 

[Puck]

Did this test for arsenic?

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

No, we did not test for arsenic, which would require reconfiguring one of our AA's, which my colleagues are unwilling to do at the moment, as our machines are old and we do not want to risk them breaking down by messing around with them. If we ever can obtain an ICP-MS, arsenic would be a routine measurement for us.