Weekend Rescues in the whites

[peakbagger]

I would expect the group without lighting and a map would get charged if F&G even dispatched a crew but the ice climber probably wouldn't.

http://nhpr.org/post/two-rescues-north-country

I had a meetup group out on Friday. There were some fairly new hikers on the trip. At one point the pace really slowed and given that the lower section of hike was off trail I really needed to get the group down before dark. When I mentioned we needed to get going at steadier pace, a few folks said, "we have plenty of time it doesn't get dark until around 5:30". We let them know that they were a bit off, the sun set is around 4:15 PM and we were on the SE side of the mountain which means twilight is lot shorter.

I am actually surprised more folks didn't get in trouble as the nice day on Friday may have convinced folks to head up Saturday which was a pretty poor day, cold windy and damp with some snow flurries.

 

[erugs]

I thought we would have heard about more rescues, too. Nice that the group separated, huh? I'd be interested in knowing how that conversation went when they met up.

 

[sierra]

What bugged me, was that as soon as they got to the car and their friends were not there, they called for help. I mean nothing happened yet, so it got dark, so they might come out else. Seems like calling for a rescue these day's, is akin to calling out for a pizza. God forbid they just wait and see what happens. Many years ago when I left my plans with someone, ( I don't now) my request was, give me until tomorrow noon before you call. That gave me time to deal with a situation on my own, before alerting the authorities.

 

[skiguy]

Seems like calling for a rescue these day's, is akin to calling out for a pizza.

No doubt. Thing is the way it's going they may even get the Pizza while their waiting to be rescued.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDXuGQRpvs4

 

[B the Hiker]

God forbid they just wait and see what happens.

If folks know what they're doing, they have a stove and a sleeping bag and can muddle through if things go badly and they have to wait for rescuers.

The problem is that the very people who call are the ones who don't have that gear and the sooner they call, the sooner they get off the mountain. I was on Jefferson and Hale this weekend and met folks who clearly were not carrying the gear needed to spend multiple hours in one spot.


Brian

 

[dug]

As a follow up...the less prepared you are, the quicker you should call (if you are going to anyway). Waiting too long, wandering around, will only make the rescue more difficult.

 

[sierra]

As a follow up...the less prepared you are, the quicker you should call (if you are going to anyway). Waiting too long, wandering around, will only make the rescue more difficult.

I guess I come at it from a different angle. I wouldn't consider calling until I needed help badly. They were simply on the wrong trail. They would have eventually come out, so maybe not at the car, big deal, I've done some long road walks. My point is, they didn't need a rescue, they needed to walk their lost ***** down on their own.
It's not that I'm against people calling for help. I'm against calling to fast and putting people out when you could muster up some effort and help yourself. I had some close calls when I was young and dumb, the thought of calling for help. quite frankly never entered my mind. People who are entering the world of hiking now, come from a new perspective. As soon as something is a little off, dial 911. OK, that's fine, they should be billed every penny, they were clearly negligent.

 

[dug]

I guess I come at it from a different angle. I wouldn't consider calling until I needed help badly. They were simply on the wrong trail. They would have eventually come out, so maybe not at the car, big deal, I've done some long road walks. My point is, they didn't need a rescue, they needed to walk their lost ***** down on their own.
It's not that I'm against people calling for help. I'm against calling to fast and putting people out when you could muster up some effort and help yourself. I had some close calls when I was young and dumb, the thought of calling for help. quite frankly never entered my mind. People who are entering the world of hiking now, come from a new perspective. As soon as something is a little off, dial 911. OK, that's fine, they should be billed every penny, they were clearly negligent.

I agree overall. I just mean that if there is no way the parties in question have the means to get themselves off the mountain, then call. Waiting until dark, when it's colder, weather rolls in, just call. Have your debit card ready.

This isn't directed to anyone on here, I assume, so it's for deaf ears anyway. I agree they didn't NEED a rescue, but they weren't going to budge unless someone came and got them. (I would've loved to hear what the people in the lot were saying)

 

[sierra]

I agree overall. I just mean that if there is no way the parties in question have the means to get themselves off the mountain, then call. Waiting until dark, when it's colder, weather rolls in, just call. Have your debit card ready.

This isn't directed to anyone on here, I assume, so it's for deaf ears anyway. I agree they didn't NEED a rescue, but they weren't going to budge unless someone came and got them. (I would've loved to hear what the people in the lot were saying)

I understand what your saying and get your point. I guess it's a new era out there. When I started out, I read books by Chris Bonnington, Doug Scott, Reinhold Messner, I wanted to be that tough when I climbed. The new generation has no hero's, I guess.

 

[erugs]

They are of the "Vacation State of Mind" mindset where bad things can't happen to them. And so, I recommend the book Deep Survival by Larry Gonzales which goes into this. Oh, wait. "They" won't read it.


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0028Z4LUU/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?ie=UTF8&btkr=1

 

[iAmKrzys]

I understand what your saying and get your point. I guess it's a new era out there. When I started out, I read books by Chris Bonnington, Doug Scott, Reinhold Messner, I wanted to be that tough when I climbed. The new generation has no hero's, I guess.

Are these books available on Instagram???

 

[Driver8]

I understand what your saying and get your point. I guess it's a new era out there. When I started out, I read books by Chris Bonnington, Doug Scott, Reinhold Messner, I wanted to be that tough when I climbed. The new generation has no hero's, I guess.

I agree with the thrust of your post previous to the above, but respectfully submit that a "whippersnappers these days are all soft" take is counterproductive. Some are, some aren't, and that truth spans across all ages. The job of educating the young - whether in age or experience - is perpetual. More ignorant little ones being born every day, and, fortunately, on the whole, I think, more new hikers starting the hobby every year. Not all of them read guidebooks and informative websites such as this, more should, and it's on us to encourage them, seems to me.

 

[erugs]

Good point Driver8.

 

[Stan]

I usually leave some sort of trip plan behind, whether hiking or paddling, but sometimes I don't and sometimes the plan deviates substantially. I've only been unplanned benighted once but am confident (both in probability and in a successful outcome) that I could do it again. When would I call or seek help? Probably not until in distress of some sort (injury, dehydration, hypothermia, hopelessly disoriented, etc.) but if I had any doubt, especially if others were involved, I would at least attempt to contact emergency personnel with a heads up ... this is where I am or may be, this is the problem, I think I can handle it, if not out by ________ please send help ... There is no shame in this and, having been professionally engaged in SAR many years ago I can tell you that SAR people would appreciate the information rather than starting an incident from scratch.

 

[erugs]

The woman who was benighted a few years ago called to inquire if anyone might be around where she was lost. Because she called with an inquiry, the S&R was put into motion. At least that's the way I remember it from her and the story. It's like my mother calling 911 a few years ago, then realizing it was unnecessary. Because she had called, the call had to be acted upon. Not to say one should not call, just be forewarned it won't likely be taken as a heads up.

 

[sardog1]

As someone who used to be awakened in the middle of the night on a regular basis, my first recommendation when you think you might be lost is to STOP:

• Stop moving, immediately.
• Think about how you got to where you are.
• Observe your surroundings and the resources you have with you.
• Plan your next action(s).

My second recommendation is to make that call early, rather than later. I have NEVER heard a SAR incident commander or responder say, "Gee, I wish that person had waited longer before calling for help. It would have made the situation so much more complicated, it would have extended the search by hours or days, and it would have exposed us to greater hazard in responding. Why can't people be more considerate before they call?"

In my experience, attempts at muddling through often end badly, sometimes fatally. If you're competent, uninjured and working from a plan, great. But "muddling" implies you are not.

 

[iAmKrzys]

In my experience, attempts at muddling through often end badly, sometimes fatally. If you're competent, uninjured and working from a plan, great. But "muddling" implies you are not.

Last winter, after Kate Matrosova's death I thought to myself that I have never tried to systematically think about dangers of hiking, so I sat down one evening and compiled a list of such dangers. One of the things I wrote down was "loss of ability to ***** risk" but maybe I should make it a bit more general as a "loss of ability to assess situation" or just add it as another item on my list...

 

[erugs]

As in, when we become so focused on our goals that nothing else seems to matter? That's a hurdle to overcome for some high achievers.

 

[skiguy]

The woman who was benighted a few years ago called to inquire if anyone might be around where she was lost. Because she called with an inquiry, the S&R was put into motion. At least that's the way I remember it from her and the story. It's like my mother calling 911 a few years ago, then realizing it was unnecessary. Because she had called, the call had to be acted upon. Not to say one should not call, just be forewarned it won't likely be taken as a heads up.

Was this the incident on Jackson where the woman involved had her cell phone, no map and compass, was lost, spent the night out and was lead out the next morning?

 

[erugs]

I'm not sure about the map and compass. That's the one, though. She would have found the way out the next morning, had just placed a heads up call. Maps and compass are hard to use if there is zero visibility and you are mired in deep snow off trail. A storm had come in a bit ahead of schedule. She had gear to keep herself relatively comfortable until she waited for dawn.