Western Mountaineering Puma -15

[bunchberry]

Does anyone have a Western Mountaineering Puma -15?? I was able to purchase one today for a pretty good deal, but am worried that -15 is not warm enough. The bag had a narrower cut than the WM Bighorn -25, which felt huge on me, mostly width-wise (I'm about 5'7"). I have spent cold nights in the winter before, but that was with a synthetic -5. Down is new for me, so I have no idea if I sleep cold or warm. Anyone have some personal experience with this bag?
-katie

 

[hikerfast]

a puma..hmm...that would give me paws for thought...

today at ems ed hawkins told me the guy at all outdoors in manchester had him try out a bunch of way below zero bags. then the guy took out a 0 rated western mountaineering bag and said it was better than all of them. im researching bags and hearing real good stuff about western mountaineering, if that helps at all

 

[DougPaul]

Down works too... It tends to drape around you better than polyester. The biggest difference is that it is more affected by moisture. Not much of an issue for a single night, but if you are out for an extended period the loft will decrease as frost collects in the bag. To counter this, you should dry the bag as much as possible by airing it and sunning it as much as possible. In really extreme conditions, a vapor barrier liner may be the only way to keep it dry. (BTW, polyester bags also have the same problem in extreme conditions.)

-15F should be adequate for most nights in the Whites, assuming you are an average sleeper. (A -20F bag is typically recommended as a minimum.) It does occasionally get down to -40F in the Whites--if you are expecting really cold weather, I suggest you also bring a 40F to 20F down mummy bag to put inside the Puma.

Doug

 

[Halite]

Western Mountaineering appears to be one of the more conservative companies with its temp ratings. They don't skimp on the loft for a given rating.

I have an older model Puma rated to 0 degrees and it has worked great in the low single digits in a fairly windy leanto. My son used a combination of two Western Mountaineering bags in the same conditions--a tight cut summer bag inside a 10 degree bag--and was too warm.

If you bought a regular size bag (rather than a small), you'd probably have room to layer a summer bag inside or wear a down coat and pants to extend the range. A bivy on the outside would also increase warmth.

 

[bunchberry]

thanks for your replies...the more I hear about WM's repuation, the more confident I am with my choice. I know it's all pretty individual anyway--what works for one may not work for another. I will have fleece layers along with a down jacket I can always add if needed. Also, if I anticipate it being REALLY cold, I have a 32 degree bag I can put inside of it.

If anyone else is familiar with this bag, feel free to chime in!

-katie

 

[Trekkin]

I don't have the Puma, but my Apache Super DL has served me very well over the past 3 yrs. I've yet to hear a negative on either WM or Feathered Friends products. The Apache I have is rated to 15, and I've slept in it down to 10 (with a hat and fleece) and was toasty. They are conservative in their ratings in my experience.

 

[Warren]

I have a Puma. Kept me warm at the ADK winter gathering a few years back in nighttime temps of -30 or so. WM's rating are not that of most other bags. Their ratings seem to indicate warm/toasty level of the bag. I've pushed every WM bag I've used comfortably below it's intended rating.

 

[WCTDave]

You could always consider bringing along a bag liner too...I've never used one, but I've heard claims of adding ~10F of warmth to a bag. If someone can confirm that, it seems like it would be a good option to have "just in case". I've heard many good things about WM as well, so I think you got yourself a good bag.

 

[NYBRAD]

I also have the Puma and have been comfortable down to -25 by itself. I've had it about 6 years. Still has all it's loft. With a cheap slumberjack +40 lightweight extra wide synthetic rectangle liner over the top, I've kept warm down near -40. The liner works on the inside too, but it keeps any frozen condensation off the down bag when over the top. The extra money spent, is well worth years of long comfortable nights in the cold NE winters. Remember, in the winter you spend a great deal of time in your bag.

 

[alpinista]

I love my Western Mountaineering bag. It's rated at 0 degrees, though I've used it in temps significantly colder without a problem. You got a great deal there, Bunchberry, so don't fret.

 

[Warren]

Bag liners

I've used a thin synthetic liner, I'd guess it adds about 5° to a bags rating. In general, my first boost will be a light bivy on the outside of the bag adding about 10°, then a liner.

 

[bunchberry]

I'm happy to hear that you all love your Pumas! I am so excited for my first trip with this bag--I expect to be toasty warm I feel really lucky to have been able to get this bag, and I'll certainly report back when I finally get the chance to test it out there in below 0 weather. Thanks for all the votes of confidence!
-katie

 

[blacknblue]

I'm happy to hear that you all love your Pumas! I am so excited for my first trip with this bag--I expect to be toasty warm I feel really lucky to have been able to get this bag, and I'll certainly report back when I finally get the chance to test it out there in below 0 weather. Thanks for all the votes of confidence!
-katie

Umm... just make sure to test it in something other than its lowest temperature rating. Nothing quite like shivering in a tent 10 miles from your car thinking, "you know, I would've thought it would be warmer than this." (Not that I've ever done that.)

 

[deadpoint]

just as a reminder, your bag is only as warm as the insulation underneath it. the further your body is from the ground the warmer you'll be. your -15 bag should keep you warm at -30 if you have a nice down pad or 2 thermarests. i've used my 15 degree mtn hardware bag when it's been -15, i wouldn't recomend it and i really suffered but it's doable.

 

[Lawn Sale]

Umm... just make sure to test it in something other than its lowest temperature rating. Nothing quite like shivering in a tent 10 miles from your car thinking, "you know, I would've thought it would be warmer than this." (Not that I've ever done that.)

Very good advice. I test out my equipment while car camping, making sure I have enough if things start to go bad. I also do the same thing with packs, and last year I spent 2 days testing equipment in Acadia to see what combination I'd use for the year. Even I was surprised at what I learned, and it changed what I thought I would bring. As a result I was much happier and everything worked out great.

 

[NYBRAD]

I wouldn't worry about testing the Puma too much. The best climbers in the world have tested it for years. Many climbers have even used it on Denali.
I realize people have different tolerances to cold, but believe me, it a very warm bag. With good insulation underneath, it's easily good to minus 20. If it's any colder than minus 25, I bring a liner bag and have been comfortable down to almost minus 40, and my bag is a bit older and supposedly only rated to -10.
Besides Feathered Friends, WM bags are the only bags out there that are VERY conservatively rated. I have a Northface Dryloft Foxfire with 800 fill down that is rated to zero, but I wouldn't even consider it if the temps are expected to drop below +10.
You have made a fine choice that you will be happy with for many years to come!

 

[blacknblue]

It's not so much testing the worthiness of the equipment, but rather the individual's particular 'fit.' Obviously, stuff like boots and backpacks we all recognize as needing testing--not b/c the equipment is questionable, but making sure that it is appropriate to the individual.
In the case of a sleeping bag, I like to test the bag at a temp about 15 degrees warmer than its minimum rating, with all the clothing, tent, insulator pads, etc. that I intend to use later. If I'm quite comfortable then, I'm much more confident in taking it out in colder weather.
Just a simple test, really, that could save a wretchedly cold night later.

 

[MissionsMan]

I've gotta add another positive review to this Puma thread.

I have the SDL version (rated to -20F by WM) and have used it in -30F conditions this past January on the way up to Marcy. Also, i am an admitted cold sleeper and, as it worked out, was the sole occupant of my (small) tent. As such, i did not benefit from any added warming of the shelter by another occupant yet was toasty warm and comfortable.

I do use a VBL to minimize perspiration and my personal funk from being added to the bag, but not sure how much actual, measurable warmth a VBL adds. There is usually much data (speculation) about VBL's and their effectiveness and they are clearly a topic for another discussion. No hi-jack here!!!

I am inclined to believe that you will be pleased with your bag. I was initially not impressed with how the bag looked (loft-wise), but experience determined it's true (phenomenal!!!!) beauty.

Enjoy.

mm