What Do I Put On My Feet For Winter Hikes

[DayTrip]

I was eventually going to ask this question but with all the winter-related posts popping up of late I figured I'd just go ahead and ask it: what footwear do I need for winter hiking? After many years of wanting to do it I finally did a few winter hikes in snow last year to see what it was like. One was in fresh snow (Mt Hale at moderate grades), one in melted and packed but deep snow (Cannon Mountain on the relatively steep Kinsman Ridge Trail). I always have MicroSpikes for the off season hikes but I bought my first pair of snowshoes to experiment. I read up on weight and height, type of terrain, blah, blah blah and settled on a 25" hiking model as a good all around option. They arrived at my house just after a large snow storm so I strapped them on, walked out into the yard....and sunk in up to my thighs. (I should point out I'm 6'3" and weigh about 220 lbs before gear). I reordered a 36" pair and they hold me fine. Did a stroll up Mt Hale after a fresh storm and they worked great. Problem solved.......

But I noticed on that hike and my next one that nobody I ran into had snow shoes. Many people had nothing and many others were using short "mini" snowshoes that looked like nothing more than crampons with a 12" platform type frame. ??? Am I missing something? How do they hold you up in the snow? These were not all broken and packed trails. There was powder, particularly on Hale where the guy I passed in those short snow shoes looked like he was really struggling. They were great on Cannon too which had very deep postholes everywhere at the top in the firm snow but they were very awkward descending the steep slopes where the crampons underneath didn't bite in enough after clawing through the 3-5" of fresh powder on top.

I'd like to venture above treeline for a summit this winter and eventually do an ascent of Mt Washington but clearly I need more advice on gear. From everything I've read online the snow above treeline is generally very firm and hard and I'm more likely to need crampons than snowshoes. But what if it snows? Drifts? Are my 36" snow shoes destined for the basement? What do I need to bring for my feet? I have the cold weather clothing but I need advice on what else I should be carrying. Seems to be a lot of disagreement with what I've read online on common items like ice axes, etc. Figured I'd ask the experts.

Also, what is a good "starter peak" for a legitimate above treeline practice run (not an in the trees until the top hike but something with exposure and varied terrain)? Any feedback would be appreciated. Would like to do something with a decent stretch above treeline for the practice. I've done all of the 48 4,000 footers so I have a general familiarity them but many of the trails are no doubt very different in the winter.

 

[Lefty E]

Most likely you'll have to have microspikes, crampons, and snowshoes with you most of the time...there have been plenty of hikes where hikers have used all three in one hike...I use the MSR's Denali Ascents, 22 inches, but look like the "short" ones you described...they serve the purpose for me with good traction...checking trail conditions and weather reports before your hike is of utmost importance, as being in a whiteout above treeline can be pretty scary..sometimes the cairns are not even visible.and trails in the trees sometimes can be hard to find and follow if not broken out .....you might want to check out Tom, Field, and/or Willey from the Highland Center, and if you find winter hiking to your liking, maybe hit Pierce and Eisenhower...but sometimes the trail is hard to find after Pierce in winter..I'm sure you'll get some great advice from this forum.....

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

What you're missing is that what you need for walking in virgin snow on the back 40 and what you need for hiking on an already broken out trail are not the same thing. The more "virgin" the snow the more flotation you will need. Even if you are the first to go through after a storm, if the trail has been continually broken out over the winter you will not sink down as you would in three or four feet of unbroken snow.

Also, you will find that since the majority of hikers are now using the somewhat narrow MSR type snowshoe, hikers with the large snowshoes often find it difficult to fit into the path made by the other snowshoes.

The Lincoln--Lafayette loop on a day with good visibility (and not too much wind) would be my recommendation for getting the above treeline feel.

 

[Tom Rankin]

Bringing 'everything' is a safe way to proceed, but 'everything' can be so much that it weighs you down.

I started simple and built up.

Pick a day when it's sunny and calm, and the trails are broken (Sunday or Monday). Take the snowshoes and the crampons out for spin above tree line. (Microspikes or hill sound trail crampons, etc. are part of the 'everything' for when there is either very little snow or it is hard packed). Your comments about changing conditions are good. You DO NOT KNOW if the conditions will change from minute to minute above tree line. It could be windy, calm, squalling, sleeting, foggy, deep snow, ice, bare rock, all in 5 minutes. Being prepared is crucial. Many people like you have seen go out unprepared. Don't be one of them. The post-holers are working much harder than they have to, all to save a few pounds of gear.

Crampons are only for steep hard ice. Using them all day is very tiring to your feet, and can be dangerous.

You seem to be on the right track. At some point, you have to logoff, and just go for a hike.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Wow, it's still August. Might be the earliest this has come up.

Tim

p.s. On average I use snowshoes 75% of the time, microspikes 20% of the time, and bare boot/crampons the other 5%. Snowshoes are either MSR Denali Ascents or Tubbs Flex Alps. Get your boots first, especially if you have big or odd shaped feet.

 

[Brambor]

depending on the density of the snow there may not be a snowshoe that is large enough to keep you above the snow. Therefore check the trail conditions for the trail you are planning to do and check the weather to see what kind of new snow you could expect. Based on those points then choose the snowshoes/crampons/microspikes combo for your trip.

In other words - there is no magic size for snowshoes. It all depends.

You've done the 48 - actually in some cases the trails are easier to hike than in the summer. The snow fills all holes between rocks and if the trail is a popular one it will be broken through by previous hikers. It might look like one smooth waterslide curving it's way top ;-)

It's all fun and games on trails that protect you from the wind most of the way up but once you get into an area with whiteout and wind then you'd better take notice of how prepared you are and be ready to turn around .... make the safe choice.

 

[TJsName]

As a fellow tall hiker, welcome to the branch-in-the-face club. Your membership should arrive in February.

Ed nailed it about the snow. I only have 36" shoes right now, so I can go anywhere. I would love to get some 25" ones for packed trails, but I can't justify it yet. The issue with trails being broken out too narrow wasn't a huge issue, but it does add a little work going up. I carry microspikes on every winter hike and use them fairly frequently

For a good starter mountain I would suggest Moosilauke (for some safe alpine exploration).

 

[kerry13]

All good advice. I have 36" Atlas snowshoes, 25" Tubbs Flex Alp and 22" Denali Ascents. My Atlases are definitely for below treeline unbroken terrain. I find them to be a real workout in any sort of hilly terrain. Plus they are just awkward to maneuver on. You're right there is little floatation in unpacked terrain with the smaller shoes but that's where having a hiking friend or two comes in. Buddy up with someone of equal ability and share trail breaking. You have to be pretty strong, experienced winter hiker to break trail up any of the 4Ks alone. It's also surprising now a days just how fast trails get broken out, especially the popular ones. I think you'd do well with something like Tubbs Flex Alp. Great binding, lots of gripping power for those wind blow iced up sections and not bad in deeper powder. What ever you use don't forget to carry a repair kit to at least last long enough to get you back to the trail head. Stuff does break, know the weak spots on your shoes and be prepared.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Flex Alp comes in 24 and 28" sizes. I have 24" shoes because the 28" wasn't available at the time. I'm 6'3" 195# (already a member of the branch-in-the-face club, and the snow-down-the-back club too) and there are days when the 24" aren't ideal, but for the most part, they are fine.

I have measured the depth of my track in new snow (16") in my yard and in reality, the 22" MSR Denalis sink only 1/2 to 1" more than my 30" LL Bean/Tubbs (NOT mountaineering shoes.)

The smaller shoes with aggressive crampons are a reasonable compromise between floatation and traction. Rarely do I need anything else. Crampons have (so far) been largely unnecessary (when you truly need them, you need them, but in a snow winter on most trails, you won't). I know there will be disagreement with me on this opinion

Tim

 

[Brambor]

I bought the trail extensions for the msr. I wonder if I really get to use them but for some trips with overnight snow forecast I will at least pack them in.

 

[Snowflea]

Coupla thoughts to consider:

*Somebody* has to break trail.

Sometimes trails - even highly travelled "broken out" trails - get blown in so that you easily lose the path. Sometimes visibility is so poor above treeline that you lose the trail and find yourself in very deep snow (think Oakes Gulf). Yes, I know that would never happen to anyone on this board.

Microspikes are great most of the time, but when conditions warrant full crampons, Micros can be downright scary.

 

[Lawn Sale]

I have 36" Tubbs that I rarely break out, 30" Tubbs mountain that I use when breaking trail after a snowfall, and 25" Atlas that are my main shoe (1225). I did most of the W48 on some old women's Atlas 1025's I pulled off the dump and repaired, and they were perfect but were lacking a televator that I love. They were narrow enough to fit down the trails easily, had a great aggressive crampon for climbing and stopping, and had good flotation on the trails, which are normally only as deep as the last snowfall. I have owned the MSR's in the past but am not enamored with them and practically gave away the two sets of Denali's I've had since I couldn't put up with the creaking. The Lightning Ascent is a great shoe as long as you carry spare pins and keep an eye on the crampon toe that can occasionally snap off.

I use the Microspikes (Hillsound Trampons actually) very seldom and usually only in the fringe seasons. The rest of the time I use full crampons (Petzl M10's). I have seen people ascend and descend stuff with snowshoes but I felt more comfortable with the crampons, so they usually accompany me on winter hikes. For shoes I use either the Koflach's or Scarpa double boots but have used my single boot leathers on smaller and less elevation hikes.

Someone said it already, the best thing you can do is to strap on a pair and go hiking. You'll figure out what works and what doesn't in short order, just don't plan anything too epic for the trial run. I do this with any new gear I come across, usually visiting a state park for the weekend to sort things out before I hit the main areas.

 

[iagreewithjamie]

I'd definitely recommend the AMC's Workshop "Advanced Winter Wilderness Travel". This class is designed for people who are experienced hikers, yet want to hike the Whites in winter. Great weekend with lots of excellent info, and a stellar gear list.

To answer your question, I have Atlas 1030's, and have found them to be a good multi-use shoe. They have aggressive crampons and televators for climbing, and are relatively light. They have a large bed, so they make for some good glissading. The ONE downside I've encountered is that the shoe is wider than most of the MSRs that the majority of people use. Sometimes, I've found the track on a trail to be slightly more narrow than my shoes and gait allow for. That said, I think these shoes are "good" at many different things, but not as "great" as other shoes in certain specific areas... hence why its a good multi-purpose shoe. I do have to say that I love these things while bushwhacking - there's been no terrain I haven't been able to negotiate, nor have I ever felt that I was going to destroy them in nasty terrain.

 

[TJsName]

I know a couple of people that use the lightning ascents (and I think NHTramper was using them too when I saw him doing the Hancocks). The edging is really nice, especially for any side-hilling. I use 36" Tubbs Mountaineers, which give me a lot of float (6'4, 280# before gear) but don't have any edging. They have a fairly aggressive crampon and the aforementioned televators (calf savers), which I highly recommend. They also have a a full swinging binding, which I like because they don't fling snow down my back. The downside is they can drag a bit, and if you're doing a big jump down, they can swing and go vertical (which might not make for a great landing!).

This is a great time to start looking at what gear you might want before the holiday season. You can get an idea on pricing and get reviews from different people. Hopefully snowshoe season will start before then, but last year my first adventure wasn't until New Year's Eve. Hiking with others is a great way to expand your knowledge base as well. There are likely a lot of little things you can learn to make your experience better that don't come out easily in the forum (like how to lift up and put down your televators without bending over).

 

[sierra]

Coupla thoughts to consider:

*Somebody* has to break trail.

Sometimes trails - even highly travelled "broken out" trails - get blown in so that you easily lose the path. Sometimes visibility is so poor above treeline that you lose the trail and find yourself in very deep snow (think Oakes Gulf). Yes, I know that would never happen to anyone on this board.

Microspikes are great most of the time, but when conditions warrant full crampons, Micros can be downright scary.

Micro-spikes are the most overrated overused piece of gear that has hit the backcountry in years. I own them yes, but their application is before heavy winter and after heavy winter imo. I came close a few times to sure death descending ice with them and have gone to a ten point hiking crampon myself.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Micro-spikes are the most overrated overused piece of gear that has hit the backcountry in years. I own them yes, but their application is before heavy winter and after heavy winter imo. I came close a few times to sure death descending ice with them and have gone to a ten point hiking crampon myself.

Of the two brands - Hillsound and Kahtoolas - Hillsound Microspikes are the better choice because they have a superior heal plate. Much, much better on descents than Kahtoolas. Nearly broke an ankle last winter coming off the Carters in the Kahtoolas. Haven't worn them since.

I also frequently carry Hillsound Pro's - they're about 1/2 way in between microspikes and a full-on 10 point crampon, like the G10. When trails are boilerplate or getting close, they're the right tool for the job. Don't weigh much more than the microspikes, either.

 

[sierra]

Of the two brands - Hillsound and Kahtoolas - Hillsound Microspikes are the better choice because they have a superior heal plate. Much, much better on descents than Kahtoolas. Nearly broke an ankle last winter coming off the Carters in the Kahtoolas. Haven't worn them since.

I also frequently carry Hillsound Pro's - they're about 1/2 way in between microspikes and a full-on 10 point crampon, like the G10. When trails are boilerplate or getting close, they're the right tool for the job. Don't weigh much more than the microspikes, either.

Hillsound Pro's are an excellent choice.

 

[Lawn Sale]

I have found the Hillsound Trampons to be inferior to the Microspikes because the plate at the ball of your foot is rigid and balls up with snow like a crampon, whereas the Microspikes do not seem to suffer this as much. Most of the people I hike with in the fringe seasons (and the wife) have Microspikes so I get to see a lot of comparisons in the same conditions. One of my heel/surround contacts is tearing away as well, and they don't have a ton of use on them since I usually wear crampons. They're not bad, but I don't think they're as good as Microspikes.

I have no experience with the Hillsound Pro's.

 

[DayTrip]

Good info all. Thanks. I am using a 36" Tubbs snowshoe right now and I really like them. Bindings super easy to use with gloves, has a good crampon underfoot and except in really steep or really sidehill lies they are generally fine for everything I've done so far. I'll check out the Flex Alps from Tubbs. Seems like the same design in a smaller shoe.

As far as crampons I've seen a LOT of disagreement on these. I've definitely been in situations where I was not comfortable in microspikes (such as last December on the steep pitch coming up the back side of Mt Jackson, which had a solid 2' of ice the day I went up it). One of the biggest arguments I've read is how many "points" your crampons should have. I've read 12 is a minimum on many posts, 10 or less on others, others say it doesn't matter. Also, apparently there are two types of crampons: ones for rigid technical boots and floating types for use on normal boots. Anybody want to weigh in on that? Is there any advantage to a technical winter boot for regular hiking? (i.e. warmer, comfort, etc).

Also, ice axe(s)? Most "beginner" winter climbing sites list this as a must have item but I rarely see it mentioned on sites with more experienced climbers. I generally have my hiking poles with snow baskets. Is an ice axe really just for technical climbs? I don't see it's use in a normal hike but I am new to this. Thoughts?

One last question: how do you keep your goggles from fogging and freezing? The day I did Cannon it was about -12 deg F (before windchill). I was sweating during the climb so as soon as I cleared the trees and put my goggles on they fogged and froze in about 10 seconds. Switched to my Oakley's.....ditto. I was putting them on for the brightness (crystal clear skies) more than anything so I got by without them but I couldn't help but think what would happen if I'd been well above treeline and it was a white out or snowing. How do you keep your goggle clear and see where you're going???

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Plastic boots + 12 point / front point rigid crampons are usually reserved for technical ice climbing routes, and plastic boots are also useful for multi-day trips (leather can get wet and freeze, plastic boots do not, and you can sleep in the liners.)

Insulated leather + 10 point (ala G10) are fine for day trips in the Whites. I got this advice from Kevin Rooney many years ago and have never wanted more than that (I rarely use the crampons as it is.)

Ice axe ---- To have one is one thing, to know, instinctively how to use it is another. The former without the latter can lead to a false sense of security in the best case, and disaster in the worse case.

Finally, there are lots of discussions on goggle fogging and the reality is if you sweat a lot (like me) it's pretty hard. There are many topics on this already (as with the rest of the points) so search is your friend here. Essentially, you want good contact with your face, high volume, optionally a fan, and make sure your breath is expelled down and away from the goggles. I wait until the last second to use mine, and keep them warm prior to use.

Here are a few:

googles fogging
Goggle fog
goggle recommendations

My $0.02.

Tim


ETA - here is my winter gear collection: https://picasaweb.google.com/102470229665583617112/Gear