What does one do...?

[DougPaul]

Or they might simply steal your camera...

maybe not if you had a gun? or knife? or pepper spray? or training? or any of the other objects discussed in the personal safety thread:

This is getting ridiculous...

Provoking a confrontation is rarely a good idea. Quietly take your picture, and ask the noise makers/rock throwers/whatever to desist in an appropriate way, and save your picture for the authorities if necessary.

Doug,
who, while white water boating, has been treated as a BB-gun target by some kids... I've also had the honor of topping out on a rock climb to confront the kids throwing stuff down the face we were climbing.

 

[dvbl]

MAN, a few of us did Adams and Jefferson via King Ravine and Castle in mid-April. After driving up from CT that morning and a nice long hike we camped at Barnes Field. There was this one group there, right in the middle of the place - they must've had 10 tents and as many cars, big old camp fire, grills going, drinking, laughing, someone had some FREAK music playing on their car stereo, I went up to them and, oh, wait, that was us. It was a VFTT gathering, never mind.

Growing up we always had to obey the "9-to-9" rule. For those unfamiliar with it, it is simply this: from 9pm until 9am you do things quietly out of deference to those trying to sleep. The tv volume is lowered to a volume so only those in that room can hear it. Same with radios. You walk softly, no stomping. You close doors softly, no slamming. Voices are lowered. This is just simple courtesy. You like doing it for those you care about, and you appreciate when it is done for you. Simple.

As for your "gathering", I'm not sure what that is but I hope you had fun, but hopefully not at the expense of other people camping nearby. If you did all your grilling and laughing and drinking and freak-music playing before what the campground considers "quiet hours", then that's cool. Have a ball. If you did all that at any time during "quiet hours" and you disturbed those who were camping nearby, then you and your group were wrong and should've stopped. I don't care if it's a VFtT "gathering" or two 17 year olds who lifted a six-pack from daddy's basement fridge. "Quiet hours" applies to everyone. And I always love this excuse: "Oh, we were just having a good time." Yeah, it's amazing how some people's good time can so easily ruin some other people's weekend.

It's sad but absolutely predictable how many of these stories involve alcohol.

 

[jbreen]

Growing up we always had to obey the "9-to-9" rule. For those unfamiliar with it, it is simply this: from 9pm until 9am you do things quietly out of deference to those trying to sleep. The tv volume is lowered to a volume so only those in that room can hear it. Same with radios. You walk softly, no stomping. You close doors softly, no slamming. Voices are lowered. This is just simple courtesy. You like doing it for those you care about, and you appreciate when it is done for you. Simple.

When I checked into a hotel in Geneva, I was given a card listing the same courtesies that I needed to observe, including to not flush the toilet after 10pm. In the office the next day, I confirmed with others that that is indeed the practice in close housing units.

 

[hogabum]

I have read all of these posts, an though I have had very few "issues" in the mountains with folks doing stupid things, I guess the way I usually handle these things is to try to be as non-confrontational as possible.

I was behind someone on the OBP one time and I started picking up Poland Spring "full-never opened" 20oz, Sport bottles that were cast off the trail. When I caught up to the person responsible, I knew it was him because I saw him jettison one as I caught up to him. I asked him if he knew anything about them ( I had 6 now) and he said he didn't know anything about them. I said OK and just shook my head and kept on going (still shaking my head)

I just don't think you should get into a confrontation out in the woods with someone you don't know , and don't know how they are going to react to something you may say.

 

[skibones]

These stories are the reason I hike futher into the woods to find spots to camp away from the other hikers.

I agree--I could never find the attraction of camping so close to other people and having to put up with their obnoxious behavior.

I don't think that any personal protection that you may have on you should be used to get another camper or hiker under control unless there was a personal assault against you or a fellow hiker.

 

[Nessmuk]

These stories are the reason I hike futher into the woods to find spots to camp away from the other hikers.

It was the Friday of Memorial Day weekend. I had just paddled to Grass Pond on Low's Lake, with intentions of bushwhacking to various locations over the next couple of days. I stashed my canoe and gear where they would not be seen in the woods, some distance from one of the designated campsites. As I stood in plain view at the campsite enjoying the beautiful morning view a loon appeared to be "patrolling" the shoreline. Suddenly at treetop level a float plane buzzed directly over my head. It swung around and made it's landing toward me, taxiing up to a piece of sandy shore maybe 30 yards from where I was standing. I stood there as the pilot and two passengers unloaded all kinds of boxes of gear.

I was astonished because they could obviously and plainly see me there but from where they were they could not see whether I had set up my own camp under the trees. They never asked if the site was occupied. They apparently assumed it was "their" campsite and what I was doing didn't matter. Before they arrived where I was standing I disappeared into the woods. I could still see the plane taxi out and a sight I had never seen before. The loon literally chased the plane as it made it's taxi out into the lake. It was making all kinds of noise, and sped up to do it's "water walk", chasing directly after the plane. I could only guess that it was protecting a nearby nest. After that I continued on to do a short bushwhack to a small pond.

When I returned a couple of hours later there was a large fire burning next to a family size tent with no one in sight. A large bottle of "Wild Turkey" sat 3/4 empty on a stump. "Hello, anyone here?" I repeated a number of times, louder each time. Just as I was making the decision to douse the unattended fire I heard a squawk from a 2-way radio inside the tent. I peered in under the tarp covering the door to see 2 cots, one with a large man snoring, and a .22 rifle propped up against the other. The voice on the radio sounded excited but the man did not move. Then I could hear the voice and commotion on the shore just out of sight.

I walked in that direction to find a scruffy looking man holding a large bass. I'm beginning to think "deliverance". He was all excited, saying it was huge and there were lots more there. I followed him up to the tentsite. As the fish lay flopping on the ground and the sleeping man stumbled up, I mentioned that bass season was not yet open. "Yeah, but there are lots of them there". I repeated "bass season is not open for another couple of weeks - do you know the ranger?" I reiterated that fact 3 or 4 times as I began to take pictures, all the time keeping tabs of what both men were doing. Finally he got the hint and threw the bass into the water. I thanked him and disappeared for another few hours.

When I returned later in the day I thought I'd stop by to say "hi". They were cleaning fish in a bucket. "Bullhead, we got bullhead" they said. Sure enough they were. "You'll have a good dinner with those". I headed off to set up my hammock in the woods on a slope about a quarter mile away.

I don't know how that plane ever got into the air with all the lead it must have been carrying. For the next hour all I heard was continous gunfire from that .22 rifle. I don't know what they were shooting at, but I feared for that poor loon. Soon after the shots stopped I noticed a white motorboat heading directly toward them. It wasn't close enough for me to verify, but it looked very much like the ranger's boat. It went directly to their site and left after about 20 minutes. It was quiet over there the rest of the evening.

The next morning I made one more pass through, just to make my presence known. I usually hike in clothing that resembles what an assistant DEC forest ranger wears, so I left the option open for them to think that. On my way home I stopped at the real local AFR's residence. Sure enough that was the ranger checking up on them by boat. The ranger knew of the reputation of some of the people that particular float plane service was known to bring in and he wanted to pay them a visit. He told the female AFR not to bother going there, but to call if she heard of trouble. He said he did not find anything in violation at the time of his visit, but he made sure they knew they were being watched. And so did I.

 

[the starchild]

Or they might simply steal your camera...

maybe not if you had a gun? or knife? or pepper spray? or training? or any of the other objects discussed in the personal safety thread

This is getting ridiculous....

getting ridiculous?? tis already was!!! dude, are you being serious? i thought you were joking about the ruffians stealing your camera? i was going along with what i thought was a joke. the rest of my post that you didn't mention was totally serious, you know, the parts about focusing on the potential of people getting hurt and not just critizing the ruffians.

doug, who, while white water boating, has been treated as a BB-gun target by some kids... I've also had the honor of topping out on a rock climb to confront the kids throwing stuff down the face we were climbing.

that's not cool. can't be fun always being a target. glad you didn't get hurt. (well, hoping you didn't as you didn't say)

 

[DougPaul]

getting ridiculous?? tis already was!!! dude, are you being serious? i thought you were joking about the ruffians stealing your camera? i was going along with what i thought was a joke. the rest of my post that you didn't mention was totally serious, you know, the parts about focusing on the potential of people getting hurt and not just critizing the ruffians.

I was just trying to suggest that threatening people in the woods (no matter how offensive they are) can lead to unfortunate consequences.

Since it is so difficult to distinguish humor, sarcasm, and irony on the web, I try to explicitly label them to minimize confusion.

Doug

 

[Chip]

Growing up we always had to obey the "9-to-9" rule.

9 to 9 seems a bit monastic. I think 10pm to 7am is reasonable.

 

[smitty77]

Thoughts on provoking those participating in "Beavis-and-Butthead" antics. Arguing with them is kind of like wrestling with a pig - The pig loves it, and you just get muddy.

McRat - I think you should stop wondering if you should have handled it differently. I think what you said, and how you said it, was perfect. In the end, it achieved the desired result (they stopped, or seemed to) without preaching, arguments, threats of police action, or possible threats of violence.

On mountains like Monadnock you see moronic behavior like this all of the time, and in my experience these people aren't idiots, stupid, retarded, or dumb. They just don't think into the future far enough, and no one has bothered to point out the obvious. For the few years I worked as a trail volunteer, we would pick up trash as we hiked, leaving the bag "on display" and often people would commend us on our efforts to keep the mountain clean. We would say thank you, and then remind them that bringing out more than you brought in will keep the mountain from becoming a garbage dump. A much better response than "Well if the stupid city folk would carry out their juice boxes I wouldn't have to spend my Saturday picking trash so that you can enjoy the mountain." You get more honey with sugar.

As for drunks - if they're drunk enough, they're fairly harmless. They don't put up much of a fight if their world is constantly spinning and they can't stand upright. Other times, there's juts nothing you can say or do to help the situation, and it's best to leave things alone and monitor the situation to be sure they don't start a forest fire. You must remember these people are in an altered mental state, and would probably not act so foolish if they were sober. Just take comfort in the fact that their morning is going to suck a lot more than yours.

 

[DougPaul]

9 to 9 seems a bit monastic. I think 10pm to 7am is reasonable.

Many campsites do have official quiet hours--eg 10pm -- 7am at Acadia.

Doug

 

[Adk_dib]

I was at devils tombstone last year and a truck pulled up and started unloading at 10m. they were up until 3:30 am "YELLING" at each other (guy and a gal). I moaned and I saw the flashlight shine on my tent. I thought "oh no, I am going to get caught in the middle of a domestic squabble".luckily nothing happened and they stopped. After my hike I was going to say something to the caretaker ( I herd these guys were strange) but the guy had left so no sense getting the girl kicked out. What I am saying is it is better to grin and bear it than make some nutcase angry. I was on top of a mtn by lake george and a couple were "doing it" on the summit. again i said nothing so not to piss the guy off.

 

[Stan]

Something about this thread reminds me of the last Gathering up in Stowe

Upon reflection, any assumptions or conclusions about that noisy group based on the one experience would have been way off the mark as to the character of the characters involved. We all would do well to separate the behavior from the person, neither really fully defines the other on the basis of one event.