What's the Ultimate Fleece Jacket?

[jfb]

This would be another alternative to a 300 wt. fleece jacket: Ibex

 

[DougPaul]

Dougpaul, I'm not sure what fleece you're wearing that is lighter than wool, but if anything they're almost the same weight with wool being lighter.

Both wool and fleece can come in denser or less dense weaves. Here are numbers from some of my gear:
* Jackets:
- Woorich wool shirt (thickness ~200 wt fleece): 26 oz
- 300 wt fleece jacket: 22 oz
- 200 wt fleece jacket: 11 oz.
- 100 wt fleece pull-over: 8 oz.
* Long underwear tops:
- Stil-Longs wool (a light weave): 6 oz.
- REI light weight MTS (feels thicker than the Stil-Longs): 6 oz

Wool is a very interesting fiber: it consists of a hydrophobic (water hating) sheath over a hydrophyllic (water loving) core. Its properties can be modifided by chemical treatments, oiling, etc. Some useful info can be found in
* Dampness and Drying: http://www.csiro.au/files/files/p5hh.pdf
* Wicking of Liquid Water in Wool: http://www.csiro.au/files/files/p463.pdf.
(These are advertising, but in between their testimonials for their version of treated wool, there seems to be some real info.)

The water storage capabilities of wool are particularly useful for socks and mitten liners because the skin underneath puts out a lot of moisture and the outer layer (mitten shells or boots) does not breathe very well.

The bottom line is that both fleece and wool work well enough over a wide enough range that either will get the job done under most conditions.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

This would be another alternative to a 300 wt. fleece jacket: Ibex

The web reference describes the fabric as "nylon, wool, lycra" and specs as "Cordura nylon & Lycra exterior, 100% wool interior".

In other words, it is a wool jacket with a built-in stretch nylon wind shell. Many people (myself included) prefer separate insulation and shell layers for more control, better moisture dissipation, faster drying, etc.

There is no info on the web listing to indicate how warm it is (ie which weight fleece it should be compared to). One might be able to make a reasonable guess if one could compare its thickness to various thickness fleeces.

Doug

 

[jfb]

In other words, it is a wool jacket with a built-in stretch nylon wind shell.

Which makes it a very similar alternative to the MH Windstopper Tech Jacket that the original poster was considering.

 

[DougPaul]

Which makes it a very similar alternative to the MH Windstopper Tech Jacket that the original poster was considering.

OK.

IMO, still less useful than separate insulation and shell layers. I have both breathable and windblock fleece jackets--I find the windblock more useful around town than in the woods.

We had a poster last winter who complained of soaking his insulation layers--turned out he was wearing a wind-blocking fleece jacket which prevented the moisture from escaping. (He may have also been over-insulated...)

Doug

 

[marty]

OK.

IMO, still less useful than separate insulation and shell layers. I have both breathable and windblock fleece jackets--I find the windblock more useful around town than in the woods.

We had a poster last winter who complained of soaking his insulation layers--turned out he was wearing a wind-blocking fleece jacket which prevented the moisture from escaping. (He may have also been over-insulated...)

Doug

I strongly agree with Doug on this. I too find insulation and shell layers to be more versatile and better at moisture management. Wind block fleece is certainly not a lightweight option, either. The stuff is heavy.

My EMS wind block fleece jacket has been relegated to commuting to work in windy downtown Boston.

 

[jfb]

I too find insulation and shell layers to be more versatile and better at moisture management.

That's also been my opinion for the last 30 years or so, but I'm always on the lookout for something new and improved. Here is a review by somebody who's tried both traditional layering systems and softshells.

 

[Chip]

That's also been my opinion for the last 30 years or so, but I'm always on the lookout for something new and improved. Here is a review by somebody who's tried both traditional layering systems and softshells.

From this review;

"Some manufacturers have evolved softshell fabrics to be more wind-resistant in order to increase warmth. In the case of the Polartec¬ Powershield» in this jacket, they took it one step too far back towards the old-school "waterproof breathable" (WB) fabrics. For someone like me who sweats a lot, this fabric simply doesn't breath enough.

This became very apparent last Feburary, when Mrs. Gearguy and myself were out on a sub-zero day to climb Mt. Guyot. At our layer-adjustment stop, Ms. GG had sprouted a small forest of hoar frost all over her Ibex softshell, while mine remained free of such adornment. Later in the day when we got back to the truck, the inside of my Gamma SV was coated with ice; just like the bad old days of WB fabrics. This would probably be a good winter jacket for someone who emits less moisture than I do, or for less aerobically-taxing winter sports."

Substitute Franconia Ridge for Guyot and I had the same experience. Windblock Fleece = walk the dog, not hike the winter peaks. Although, if you don't sweat much or constantly adjust layers, breathability would not be much of a concern.

 

[Doc McPeak]

Substitute Franconia Ridge for Guyot and I had the same experience. Windblock Fleece = walk the dog, not hike the winter peaks. Although, if you don't sweat much or constantly adjust layers, breathability would not be much of a concern.

For Winter:
Ascend with Schoeller Dryskin over EW Capilene
Enjoy summit in same under Patagonia Retro-X
Descend in Retro-X, until not needed.

I agree that the windblock fleece won't breathe enough for ascents, but for the other parts of winter climbing (summit and descent) it kept me comfortable for the W46. Yet, I do also use it for walking the dog...

 

[DougPaul]

That's also been my opinion for the last 30 years or so, but I'm always on the lookout for something new and improved. Here is a review by somebody who's tried both traditional layering systems and softshells.

I've also seen some good reports on Schoeller fabric. (The name "Schoeller" is a bit like "GoreTex"--it applies to a range of fabrics.) It seems to be a good water repellent, semi-breathable, and, in its tougher versions, abrasion resistant fabric.

I have an unlined (ie shell) jacket made of one of the lighter versions of Schoeller fabric. Haven't used it in the woods yet, but it does stand up to light rain well and is less steamy than a full shell. In the woods, I still prefer to separate my thermal insulation from my wind/water protection. I currently view it as an add-on--still need the full shell etc for the bad weather, but it might be more comfortable than the full gear in intermediate conditions.

I have heard that Schoeller pants are very good for walking through wet grass and brush--breathable yet dry and comfortable inside.

The description of the Ibex Neve jacket actually said very little about the characteristics of the shell and doesn't mention water repellency at all--so if it is raining you have to wear a rain shell over the built-in wind shell?

The OP's question sounded a bit beginnerish to me (roadtripper--please don't be offended if you are very experienced, I have no idea how much experience you have), so I figured a "get the basics right" answer would be most appropriate. I view equiment like softshells etc as more for the advanced hiker.

Doug

 

[Rick]

OK.

IMO, still less useful than separate insulation and shell layers. I have both breathable and windblock fleece jackets--I find the windblock more useful around town than in the woods. ....
Doug

Hence my previous comment:

....
I personally love the full zip windproof fleeces with zippered pockets and pitzips for all around every-day use.....

 

[jfb]

The description of the Ibex Neve jacket actually said very little about the characteristics of the shell and doesn't mention water repellency at all--so if it is raining you have to wear a rain shell over the built-in wind shell?

Depends how hard it's raining and how cold the rain is. I don't own one myself, but if there's someone out there looking for the "best" then he would be wise to look at all options. Here are some reviews of a lighter version of the Neve: reviews

 

[sierra]

Some knowledgable info here, I guess Im stuck in the past though. I always wear fleece and fleece with windbloc at varieing times yearround and I never have a problem regulating my tempeture and I never have wet gear either. But whatever works for you, Im just still shaking myhead at the comment about fleece being for walking your dog, really? how come Im not suffering out there?

 

[Chip]

I should have made that comment more clear: For me, Windblock Fleece = walk the dog, not hike the winter peaks.
Like you said, whatever works for you.

STP has a decent looking Primaloft jacket on sale, as well as some Schoeller fabric products.

 

[DougPaul]

Some knowledgable info here, I guess Im stuck in the past though.

If you are really stuck in the 30+ years ago past, wool works as well as it ever did. Newer stuff sometimes works better in some conditions, sometimes not. (If you are stuck in slightly more recent times, then fleece is ok... )

I always wear fleece and fleece with windbloc at varieing times yearround and I never have a problem regulating my tempeture and I never have wet gear either. But whatever works for you, Im just still shaking myhead at the comment about fleece being for walking your dog, really? how come Im not suffering out there?

Different people produce widely different amounts of heat. I am frequently down to my base layer when a friend is still wearing an insulating layer and a shell.

Different people also may choose different amounts and types of insulation and ventilate it differently.

I typically carry 2 fleece jackets when winter hiking--one breathable, one windblock. When I'm generating a lot of heat, I usually wear only my base layer. As I produce less heat, I first add the breathable fleece and then the windblock fleece (usually with a shell). Only very rarely do I wear the windblock fleece by itself.

I wear the windblock fleece around town on cool breezy days so that I don't need to worry about carrying a shell.

It doesn't really matter how you insulate, as long as it does the right thing for you.

Doug

 

[Woody]

For the past couple of winters I have been wearing a Scholler fabric jacket from EMS. I think the model is called the Apollo (discontinued I believe). I really like this jacket for winter hiking in all but the windest conditions. It wicks really well also. When the weather gets really nasty I put my gore-tex shell on over this jacket. The fleece is great for hanging around at the hockey rink, or as a driving jacket on cold days.